Minimalist dual sport build on a WR400F -- Questions!


19 replies to this topic
  • Shred Jesse

Posted October 25, 2011 - 02:57 PM

#1

Hey everybody!

Been a while since I posted up here. I spent most of my summer playing around on my sportbike or injured, so I didn't ride the WR400F all that much. I got into riding motocross a bunch as well, and the WR400 carried me for a while, but in the end I bought a YZ 250 for motocross stuff, and decided to keep the WR400 around for trail riding and what not.

Over the same I also converted my street bike to be track only, including full race plastics, and a bunch of other modifications. Not bad... except now I don't have a street bike! I originally bought my WR400F and it was plated in washington, but of course of questionable street legality.


So, provided I can get the title to transfer to Oregon without headache (and I think I can) I should be able to get the actual plate on the bike without much of a headache. The problem though is making it street legal enough that I don't get pulled over on sight by a police officer.

So I'm looking to do the following:
  • Put OEM Headlight back on (swapped to number plate)
  • Add switch for high low beam for later use, and it has blinker option as well as horn button.
  • Take 12v supply going to headlight on/off and reroute it to new switch. Run headlight high/low off of it (for now, both go to headlight)
  • Run 12v supply to running tail light
  • Wire 12v to brake light pressure siwtch, and pass onwards to brake light itself.
  • Run from switch for blinkers to blinker switch, and run from there to blinkers
  • Go up a single tooth on the front to help make the bike a bit better at slower highway speeds.

It's fairly minimal, but it gets me what I need. Blinkers, a headlight, a tail light, and a brake light. I use mostly front brake, so a front brake only pressure switch should do fine.


Questions:
1- Does the stock WR400f have enough power to run a headlight, a brake light, and some blinkers all at once?
2- Would going with LED blinkers help reduce the power draw?
3- Do you have any advice for me to help keep this trail worthy so if I do take it on a trail ride I'm not just going to instantly brake all of this stuff off.
4- Any other advice?

  • USMC_CRF450_WR400

Posted October 25, 2011 - 05:46 PM

#2

I just purchased as street legal wr400 here in cali and so far the baja designs kit has held up.
- Ive heard the 99 wr stator dosent have the watts as as the 2000 wr, so i have to recharge...keep in mind iv only had it about three weeks, but once its charged everything lights up fine...i only wish my vapor had a volt meter on it.
- LED lights...i dont know
- * advice* Im trying to figure out how long i can go in between oil changes and air filter changes..since i only ride it work....three miles to work so that eqates to

home to work+home for lunch+back to work+home for the day = 12 miles a day 5 days a week

So if i was you i would do the conversion and ride close to home in case something breaks.....by the way,i live in the desert near joshua tree

  • G_H

Posted October 25, 2011 - 09:31 PM

#3

1. Barely
2. Yes
3. -
4. Se below

When I made my WR400 road legal again (the previous owner had removed all electrics) I installed LED-blinkers and replaced the taillight and licence plate bulbs with LED-bulbs. Now I can run headlight, blinker, taillight, brake light and horn at the same time. A good thing is also that the LEDs tend to last longer than ordinary bulbs.

You must make sure that the LED blinkers do not have ballast resistors built in. Some of them seem to do as the old fashioned type of blinker relay needs to pull a certain power to work. But in your case you don't want ballast resistors as that means there would be no benefit in LED vs bulbs in your application.
The blinker relay must be changed to a modern type that is electronic instead. Also the electronic relays use DC current so a rectifier must be installed. The blinkers don't pull much power so you can by a cheap universal rectifier from RadioShack (or similar) and use just for the blinker system.

On my bike I run headlight, taillight, licence plate light and brake light on AC current. The blinkers and horn runs on DC through a universal rectifier mounted behind the headlight. I made a separate harness just for the blinkers and horn that easily can be removed if I want to run without.
I decided to install both front and rear brake pressure switches but where I live that's mandatory for road use so I had no option.

  • Shred Jesse

Posted October 25, 2011 - 11:47 PM

#4

Interesting. I thought the WR400 had a rectifier already... So that means everything is AC current eh? Doh!

So I'll need a rectifier prior to the switch for blinkers/headlight, replace the main bulb and tail light with LED bulbs, and a blinker relay this is electronic and uses DC current for the LED blinkers. I'll need to make sure my LED lights don't have ballast resistors in them either.

How's this game plan:

I'll start at the current AC line coming to the on/off switch that comes stock with the bike. AFTER that on/off siwtch I'll run to a 15amp fuse (adequate or too small?). From ther, I'll run parellel lines to the tail light, and the brake light switch onward to the brake light. This gets me proper AC power to the stock brake/tail light setup. From the 15 amp fuse, I'll hook up a cheap rectifier, and go to the switch I've purchased for high/low beams, and for blinkers. I'll route the switch to their appropriate LED blinkers. I'm probably only going to run rear blinkers right off the bat to keep things simple and reduce power draw. For headlights.... I'm not quite sure. I was hoping to reuse the OEM headlight to save on costs...


Is there a good LED bulb option that just fits into the OEM headlight setup?

  • G_H

Posted October 26, 2011 - 05:29 AM

#5

Yes, it's all AC current as stock!
I don't run LED in the headlight, only for tail/brake/licensplate and blinker. The headlight is an ordinary H4 bulb. Don't think there are any LEDs available that can replace the headlight bulb (at least not for a decent price).
If you intend to run the headlight on DC current (with an ordinary bulb) you will need powerful rectifier. Unfortunately that also means more expensive

How to hook it up depends on how the switch on the handlebar is wired. It seems some of them have a common ground lead (negative) for all functions which is a little unfortunate if you want to mix DC and AC on the same bike. You cannot use a common ground (the bike chassis) for both AC and DC on a WR400 as the stator is not wired to allow that! The DC circuit must have two leads, one for positive and one for negative.
Also they can have a common positive power lead that splits between the horn and the headlight Hi/Lo switch. Mine was made like that and the horn had to be feed by DC. Hence I had to feed the Hi/Lo headlight switch with DC as well....
Check how your switch is wired! If it has separate leads for the different functions you need you can just mix AC and DC any way you want. Otherwise do something like the circuit I describe below.

I didn't want to spend money buying a "powerful" rectifier and run everything on DC. My solution is to use AC for the headlight but to feed the bulb through an ordinary (switching) relay. Relays are cheap! The relay is used to switch the AC current between Hi and Lo beam. The benefit of introducing a relay is that I can use DC from the handlebar to operate (switch) the relay between Hi and Lo. So the actual current that is feed to the bulb by the relay is AC. A little difficult to describe in words but I hope it is possible to understand.
If your handlebar switch have completely separate leads for all functions you need you just can ignore this detail and run AC straight to the switch on the handlebar and from the switch to the bulb connectors.

I'll try to describe my setup step by step:
  • AC line from the stock on/off switch to a main fuse. 15 Amp is probably more than adequate; I think 10 Amp should do.
  • AC from the fuse to taillight and brake light system (and licensplate light if applicable).
  • AC from the fuse to switching relay and from the two outputs of the relay to Hi/Lo on the headlight bulb
  • AC from the fuse to rectifier.
  • DC from rectifier to handlebar switch for Hi/Lo beam (in my case this was also to the horn)
    DC from handlebar headlight (Hi/Lo) to switching relay
  • DC from the rectifier to blinker relay
    DC from blinker relay to handlebar blinker switch
    DC from handlebar blinker switch to the left and right LED blinkers (two wires)

Is it possible to get what I mean…..? Hope so….

Edited by G_H, October 26, 2011 - 06:38 AM.


  • Shred Jesse

Posted October 26, 2011 - 08:50 AM

#6

Your setup makes a bunch of sense! I'm probably going to do something similiar to that!

In an effort to keep this all somewhat sensible for trail use still, I'll be mounting up flush mount blinkers so they aren't sticking out and prone to damage. I want this bike to retain it's functionality in the dirt should I ever decide to go back to the dirt.

The next task is to keep the lines out of the way of dirt incase I decide to hit the trails again, and also figure out connectors so I can easily disconnect everything in the event that I need to disassemble the bike.

  • Shred Jesse

Posted October 26, 2011 - 10:24 AM

#7

Are our stators three phase or single phase AC? Any chance you could link me to examples of the bare minimum variety of rectifier, and then the more robust rectifier version!

  • G_H

Posted October 26, 2011 - 12:05 PM

#8

As far as I can understand it must be single phase. There are only two power wires (or actually just one as the bike chassis acts as the other). Three phase systems have three wires.

I used a rectifier similar to this one
http://www.radioshac...oductId=2062583
I also added a capacitor to smooth out the current a bit. Don't know if that was really necessary. But it can never be wrong.

The more robust version would be something like this
http://www.trailtech...7003-RR150.html
This one seems to contain a voltage regulator as well according to the description
They are a lot cheaper in the US compared to where I live (less than half the price). My budget solution seems a little unnecessary to be honest.

  • dickm

Posted October 26, 2011 - 12:06 PM

#9

my wr400f has had a baja design kit for 10 years and works fine. I had some issues after a rebuild, but the tech at Baja helped me figure it out. FCR slide cracked and sent metal through the valves;KABOOM.

  • Shred Jesse

Posted October 26, 2011 - 02:54 PM

#10

I used a rectifier similar to this one
http://www.radioshac...oductId=2062583
I also added a capacitor to smooth out the current a bit. Don't know if that was really necessary. But it can never be wrong.


I'm definitely aiming cheap on this one.

The difficulty I see though is where the heck would I mount said rectifier that is safe from damage, and shorting out due to water, etc etc.

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  • SoCA_DRZ

Posted October 27, 2011 - 10:03 AM

#11

Here's a good read for you:

http://www.farplaces.com/dual.htm

  • Bazzaboy7

Posted October 31, 2011 - 05:20 AM

#12

Great source of information - thanks for taking the time to link to it !! :busted:

  • Shred Jesse

Posted November 01, 2011 - 12:31 PM

#13

Hmmm, good to know although I was thinking of skipping the battery... do you think it's all that necessary? I don't care if it runs without the bike being on.

  • G_H

Posted November 01, 2011 - 09:45 PM

#14

I can't see the point in having a battery on a bike with only kick-start. If you desperately want nice and smooth DC current fit a big capacitor instead! It'll last longer!
However, I also wanted to be able to remove most parts of my harness and just keep the bare necessities; headlight (Lo-beam only), taillight and brake light. So keeping them running on AC and just having the rest of the functions in a separate harness, running on DC, made sense for me.

But the effort of making a write up about it is really nice! :busted:

Edited by G_H, November 01, 2011 - 09:51 PM.
Added reason why I made my design


  • jackcbr600

Posted September 19, 2012 - 09:45 PM

#15

Can someone post a step by step with pics for those of us who are electrically handicapped?

  • corndog

Posted September 29, 2012 - 12:22 PM

#16

Yes, a minimalist schematic would be amaaazing. Just bought a plated '00 WR400 and the wiring is a mess, there's several floating bullet connectors and someone ran an additional wire from the stator and I have no clue what it's for.

  • corndog

Posted October 01, 2012 - 08:40 AM

#17

Can someone post a step by step with pics for those of us who are electrically handicapped?


Well, after a crash course over the weekend, I think I nearly have a grasp on it. If someone could please look this over for electrical errors, it would be much appreciated. Red indicating all the +12vdc leads. The little black dots at intersecting lines indicate an electrical connection, otherwise intersecting lines are not electrically connected. This is going along with the minimalist theme, so don't get all excited on the lack of horn, high beam, etc. This is also drawn with the assumption that the stock kill switch is still being used, mostly because it's easy to bump the aftermarket combo units to the off position while riding and that can be really annoying at certain times.

Ooh, one more thing, if someone can spec a capacitor in lieu of a battery, that would be most excellent!

Posted Image

Edited by corndog, October 01, 2012 - 09:04 AM.


  • jackcbr600

Posted November 07, 2012 - 11:09 PM

#18

My bike is a pile of random wires soldered together an a bunch more just cut with nothing attached... With pics of what other people did I think I could figure out what wires I need an which i can cut off.. I got the tusk d kit an i want to wire it into the the bikes power... How does the rectifier get wired in? The one i see has four prongs.. I know nothing about electronics, every thread I read about someones street legal lighting system on 2000 wr400 always ends with someone claiming to follow up with pics but never come through

  • corndog

Posted November 09, 2012 - 12:47 PM

#19

As you can see in the image above, the regulator/rectifier should have two wires coming in from the stator (A/C) and then two wires out for your lighting circuit (D/C). Still, you'll need the datasheet for your regulator to know goes where. Does your regulator/rectifier have two yellow, one red, and one black? If so, connect the two A/C wires from your stator (yellow and black, I believe) to the yellow wires on the regulator/rectifier (doesn't matter which one), then your red/black wires are for your lighting. I'm not 100% on all this, so please wait for someone else to chime in before making connections. I'd hate to give you advice that caused expensive parts to fry!

  • J-----Bone

Posted March 28, 2016 - 11:27 PM

#20

Yes, it's all AC current as stock!
I don't run LED in the headlight, only for tail/brake/licensplate and blinker. The headlight is an ordinary H4 bulb. Don't think there are any LEDs available that can replace the headlight bulb (at least not for a decent price).
If you intend to run the headlight on DC current (with an ordinary bulb) you will need powerful rectifier. Unfortunately that also means more expensive

How to hook it up depends on how the switch on the handlebar is wired. It seems some of them have a common ground lead (negative) for all functions which is a little unfortunate if you want to mix DC and AC on the same bike. You cannot use a common ground (the bike chassis) for both AC and DC on a WR400 as the stator is not wired to allow that! The DC circuit must have two leads, one for positive and one for negative.
Also they can have a common positive power lead that splits between the horn and the headlight Hi/Lo switch. Mine was made like that and the horn had to be feed by DC. Hence I had to feed the Hi/Lo headlight switch with DC as well....
Check how your switch is wired! If it has separate leads for the different functions you need you can just mix AC and DC any way you want. Otherwise do something like the circuit I describe below.

I didn't want to spend money buying a "powerful" rectifier and run everything on DC. My solution is to use AC for the headlight but to feed the bulb through an ordinary (switching) relay. Relays are cheap! The relay is used to switch the AC current between Hi and Lo beam. The benefit of introducing a relay is that I can use DC from the handlebar to operate (switch) the relay between Hi and Lo. So the actual current that is feed to the bulb by the relay is AC. A little difficult to describe in words but I hope it is possible to understand.
If your handlebar switch have completely separate leads for all functions you need you just can ignore this detail and run AC straight to the switch on the handlebar and from the switch to the bulb connectors.

I'll try to describe my setup step by step:

  • AC line from the stock on/off switch to a main fuse. 15 Amp is probably more than adequate; I think 10 Amp should do.
  • AC from the fuse to taillight and brake light system (and licensplate light if applicable).
  • AC from the fuse to switching relay and from the two outputs of the relay to Hi/Lo on the headlight bulb
  • AC from the fuse to rectifier.
  • DC from rectifier to handlebar switch for Hi/Lo beam (in my case this was also to the horn)
    DC from handlebar headlight (Hi/Lo) to switching relay
  • DC from the rectifier to blinker relay
    DC from blinker relay to handlebar blinker switch
    DC from handlebar blinker switch to the left and right LED blinkers (two wires)

Is it possible to get what I mean…..? Hope so….

 

I have a "Universal/ KTM 9-pin Off-Road Handlebar Switch" for my 2000 WR 400. Functions listed: Headlight, low beam, turn signal swith, horn or kill function, and blue led high beam indicator. Voltage: 10-14v.

I also have Tusk lighting kit. I intend to wire the tail light into the yellow bike wire getting AC and having the turn signals run off the small battery provided by the kit; using the "on/off" switch from the kit to control when using the battery for the turn signals. 

But are you saying if AC goes from my stator to my handlebar switch, I can just loose the battery and wire the turn signals to the bike?






 
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