Pro-action Suspension


60 replies to this topic
  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 04, 2011 - 07:35 PM

#41

We go to LPNF tomorrow for another 'test session' up West Fraiser, Wata, Tejon and back.
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  • Derwud

Posted November 05, 2011 - 12:51 PM

#42

Have fun and I can't wait to see how you like it after this!

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 05, 2011 - 02:31 PM

#43

Have fun and I can't wait to see how you like it after this!


Well, it sure works well. Still not as plush as the KX or the X, but soooo much better than stock.

At Hungry Valley OHV in Gorman, there are trails (like Arresta, and Backbone) that are man-made, one-way, chuck-holed freeways with drop-away jumps and big bowl turns. Kind of like an old school supercross track with no jumps, and never maintained. Big Asss potholes the size of a manhole cover, 1 ft deep. The stock WR would take these trails in 2nd and 3rd. That's as fast as I could go and still hold on. Now I'm in 3rd-4th. Still not able to get into fifth, as the potholes litterally knock the bars out of my hands, and my shoulders and elbows ache like hell if I do try it. With the CRFX it's better, and with the KX450 it's really better.

All I can say is that I did 55 miles today and was not dead tired, but I still have to ice up my elbows after riding the WR at high speed, on that rough stuff.

Above Hungry Valley is the Los Padres National Forest. It's made up of 1-1.5' wide single track, mostly on the sides of the mountains, that gets almost no maintenance, and has lots of small, deep, successive whoops about 2 ft apart and about 10" deep. They jar your fillings, knock you off your line, and over the side if you are not careful, and were IMPOSSIBLE to ride under any real throttle with the stock WR. Now I can catch the guy in front of me, for a change....!

Unfortunately, the WR's top end is making a lot of Clatter, so I will have to open her up and see what's going on. Don't know what kind of hours the bike really has on it. The seller said 18. Looked more like 48. So, the valves need adjustment, at least, and the timing chain and tension-er may be damaged, so I'm going in....

Edited by Krannie, November 05, 2011 - 04:33 PM.


  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted November 05, 2011 - 05:57 PM

#44

Unfortunately, the WR's top end is making a lot of Clatter, so I will have to open her up and see what's going on. Don't know what kind of hours the bike really has on it. The seller said 18. Looked more like 48. So, the valves need adjustment, at least, and the timing chain and tension-er may be damaged, so I'm going in....


The WR/YZ motor is noise on the top side of things. 48 hours is nothing. This isnt a X that needs adjustments etc. :busted:

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 05, 2011 - 06:31 PM

#45

The WR/YZ motor is noise on the top side of things. 48 hours is nothing. This isnt a X that needs adjustments etc. :busted:


I've owned two WR's previously, and this one is all of a sudden 'clacky' on deceleration. So much so I stopped and checked the oil height (never removed the dipstick before) and found it had been cross-threaded in by the previous owner. Fun.

After getting rid of the OEM intakes on my X (which went 300 hours before cupping) I just pulled the top end apart after 150 more hours and the SS valves were still in spec, including wear points.
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  • miweber929

Posted November 06, 2011 - 03:14 AM

#46

So all that suspension, body, setup and cleanup work and you haven't checked much less changed the oil?

Oil, coolant, brake fluid, air filter and spark plugs are ALWAYS the first thing I do to a used bike after purchase. Start with a clean maintenance slate always seems to be the best thing in the long run in my experience. Anytime I haven't, I've regretted it later.

Hope it isn't something big, otherwise I see a new thread asking about speed shops in your future......

Mike

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 06, 2011 - 07:10 AM

#47

So all that suspension, body, setup and cleanup work and you haven't checked much less changed the oil?

Oil, coolant, brake fluid, air filter and spark plugs are ALWAYS the first thing I do to a used bike after purchase. Start with a clean maintenance slate always seems to be the best thing in the long run in my experience. Anytime I haven't, I've regretted it later.

Hope it isn't something big, otherwise I see a new thread asking about speed shops in your future......

Mike


Wow.

I think I'm pretty friendly, helpful, informative, and enthusiastic about what I'm doing with my WR, here on this forum. I am an former engineer, and really like knowing all the possibilities for best performance. I love testing, riding, maintaining, and again, riding my bikes. I ride 35 -45 times a year, and ride in over a dozen different locations. I don't brag or boast about my good fortune either.

Yet I still feel this undercurrent in some of the responses to my posts that I am stupid, spoiled, and foolish.

I wish I could understand why that is.

I make a great living. I work very hard, feed 4 other families besides my own, and try to always do the right thing. It's Sunday morning and I'll be working on the computer doing bids, again, like most days. I don't, and never will, play video games. I stopped drinking a decade ago. I stopped smoking pot 3 decades ago. I don't watch professional sports on TV.

Instead, I DO THINGS. I don't live vicariously through games, sports, or beer goggles.

I'm not sure what makes Mike think that I have never maintained this WR.
Maybe because I don't use the dipstick? Could that be because MX bikes don't have dipsticks, so I don't rely on them, or 'site-glass' information?
I checked the dipstick because I started to second guess myself about the last oil change. "No oil leaks, no oil on my boots, why is the motor so noisy?? Could I possibly forgotten to put in oil??? Shit!" ...but the oil was nice and clear, and to the top of the stick. Which I will probably never take out again......

Oh, and about 'speed shops': I used to do all my own motor work. Trannies, Cranks, Stator winding, weld up my own Skid plates....hell, in Jr High I even made my own leading-link front suspension for my Schwinn.
But when it comes to 4-stroke top ends, I don't have a 5-angle grinder, or precision micrometers, or any of the other devices needed to do a proper top end job.

So, just let me say this about that post of yours.


:busted: Bite me :busted:

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 06, 2011 - 07:16 AM

#48

Oh, and I'm not sponsored by ProAction, for those of you who assume I am.

  • SXP

Posted November 06, 2011 - 08:33 AM

#49

Bill - Feel better, bud? :busted:

And, thanks for the "surprise" gift. It took me awhile to figure out where it came from, but I finally connected the dots. You didn't have to do that, but it was much appreciated nonetheless. Thanks.:busted:

  • DBMX 925

Posted November 06, 2011 - 08:45 AM

#50

Oh my..............

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • miweber929

Posted November 06, 2011 - 03:34 PM

#51

Wow.

I think I'm pretty friendly, helpful, informative, and enthusiastic about what I'm doing with my WR, here on this forum. I am an former engineer, and really like knowing all the possibilities for best performance. I love testing, riding, maintaining, and again, riding my bikes. I ride 35 -45 times a year, and ride in over a dozen different locations. I don't brag or boast about my good fortune either.

Yet I still feel this undercurrent in some of the responses to my posts that I am stupid, spoiled, and foolish.

I wish I could understand why that is.

I make a great living. I work very hard, feed 4 other families besides my own, and try to always do the right thing. It's Sunday morning and I'll be working on the computer doing bids, again, like most days. I don't, and never will, play video games. I stopped drinking a decade ago. I stopped smoking pot 3 decades ago. I don't watch professional sports on TV.

Instead, I DO THINGS. I don't live vicariously through games, sports, or beer goggles.

I'm not sure what makes Mike think that I have never maintained this WR.
Maybe because I don't use the dipstick? Could that be because MX bikes don't have dipsticks, so I don't rely on them, or 'site-glass' information?
I checked the dipstick because I started to second guess myself about the last oil change. "No oil leaks, no oil on my boots, why is the motor so noisy?? Could I possibly forgotten to put in oil??? Shit!" ...but the oil was nice and clear, and to the top of the stick. Which I will probably never take out again......

Oh, and about 'speed shops': I used to do all my own motor work. Trannies, Cranks, Stator winding, weld up my own Skid plates....hell, in Jr High I even made my own leading-link front suspension for my Schwinn.
But when it comes to 4-stroke top ends, I don't have a 5-angle grinder, or precision micrometers, or any of the other devices needed to do a proper top end job.

So, just let me say this about that post of yours.

F
:busted: Bite me :busted:


Sorry, it didn't come across right. Didn't mean it mean and snarky, more surprised.

I keep having this issue when I post early morning, it just doesn't come out right. I apologize, just surprised is all. After re-reading your post I took it as you hadn't touched the oil, Not you changed it but didn't check it. How you can know what you have in it is right without checking I don't know as no bike I've ever owned or worked on takes exactly what the manufacture says but that's your call.

What you do and what you have is your business. I need to use the stupid smilies more, I guess.

Mike

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 07, 2011 - 06:52 PM

#52

Sorry, it didn't come across right. Didn't mean it mean and snarky, more surprised.

I keep having this issue when I post early morning, it just doesn't come out right. I apologize, just surprised is all. After re-reading your post I took it as you hadn't touched the oil, Not you changed it but didn't check it. How you can know what you have in it is right without checking I don't know as no bike I've ever owned or worked on takes exactly what the manufacture says but that's your call.

What you do and what you have is your business. I need to use the stupid smilies more, I guess.

Mike


Mike

The problem you said you had in the morning is the same problem I have in the evening.....low tolerance for anyone who can't read my mind!

Sorry if I came of as a bitch....:busted::smirk::busted::smirk::bonk:

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 12, 2011 - 06:20 PM

#53

OK, so one of my Technicians is riding the WR tomorrow at Cal City. Changed the Sag to 20/105, which I didn't think I could get, and will be much better than the 30/115 I had it at.

Should be interesting: he normally rides a 2012 KX450F.....

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 14, 2011 - 07:20 AM

#54

Well, the WR did great with Matt aboard. He agreed that the shock works GREAT, and the forks are much better and have much better control, BUT, they still blow through the stroke much too quickly, and become harsh and pack up a bit when they do.

He is 220lbs, and the bike is sprung perfectly for me.

Oh, and he kicked my ass all day on that stock motored WR, and me on my '08KX450. Even with the funky fork action, of course.

Time to address the mid-valve shims.

  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted November 14, 2011 - 07:43 AM

#55

Well, the WR did great with Matt aboard. He agreed that the shock works GREAT, and the forks are much better and have much better control, BUT, they still blow through the stroke much too quickly, and become harsh and pack up a bit when they do.

He is 220lbs, and the bike is sprung perfectly for me.

Oh, and he kicked my ass all day on that stock motored WR, and me on my '08KX450. Even with the funky fork action, of course.

Time to address the mid-valve shims.


they say its the rider, not the bike, don't they? :busted:

Its good that you know how to tune your own suspension. You are probably saving a fortune and can dial in exactly how you want it.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 14, 2011 - 08:20 PM

#56

they say its the rider, not the bike, don't they? :busted:

Its good that you know how to tune your own suspension. You are probably saving a fortune and can dial in exactly how you want it.


I disagree.

It's not how I 'want' it, it's how it 'should work'.

Doesn't matter how slow or fast or heavy you are....if the fork does not stay up in the stroke, you effectively reduce travel and eliminate compliance.

If stiffer springs or turning the clickers won't solve it, it's just plain wrong.

  • MANIAC998

Posted November 15, 2011 - 04:35 AM

#57

Keep it up Krannie! Alot of us are reading intently, and patiently waiting to see the final outcome. I had a local company do my '06 WR suspension, and while a huge improvement over stock, I still think there is alot of improvement left in it. And they seem to have closed the doors, so I'll need to find someone else to do it for this upcoming race season. As I've said, I've had very good results with Pro-Action in the past, so I'm watching this thread with the intent on possibly finding the next company to do mine for 2012! Maniac

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 15, 2011 - 06:57 AM

#58

Keep it up Krannie! Alot of us are reading intently, and patiently waiting to see the final outcome. I had a local company do my '06 WR suspension, and while a huge improvement over stock, I still think there is alot of improvement left in it. And they seem to have closed the doors, so I'll need to find someone else to do it for this upcoming race season. As I've said, I've had very good results with Pro-Action in the past, so I'm watching this thread with the intent on possibly finding the next company to do mine for 2012! Maniac


Maniac

I wish I had taken some footage of Matt riding on Sunday. You could see him over-compensating for the forks when riding the successive whoops. Standing in a neutral stance, he would go through about 6 whoops, 4 ft apart, 30" high, and then have to pull back hard on the bars to keep the front end up and un-weighted over the next ones. We switched bikes, I was was doing the same thing, but I am 40lbs heavier than him, so that was a big factor too.

If we rode side by side on flatter smoother terrain, the KX was faster in all gears, so I could keep ahead and always pull him, unless it was a rough corner, which he is very good at. He just gets his upper body rigid, sits about 2" off the seat, and man-handles it through the corner at speed. That is when he mentioned to me " these forks feel like my 2006 KX, only softer.....the pack down, and stay there too long...". We tried backing off the rebound, but it just made it pogo, so that is not the issue.

To be clear though, the bike is shorter and has slightly less travel than the YZ's or my KX. I think that has a lot to do with the way it reacts in whoops. And it's heavier. But I'm still impressed, and so was Matt. He has ridden the WR in the before, during, and after stages of the suspension, and all he could say was " man, this thing is fun!". Even at 270+ lbs, you can toss it around if needed.

The shock work is done, as far as I am concerned. It's still a little soft in the initial stroke, and going in on the compression doesn't solve it, it just makes it harsher. I think the HS and the LS compression adjusters are tightly linked, and I may have to back off on one if I adjust the other.

I'm going to get the mid-valve re-done before moving on to the YZ forks that are sitting patiently in the garage. I believe that will make a big improvement.

There was as 2007 YZ in the group too, with Enzo suspension set up for MX. It was way to stiff for the rider, and you could see it, but 'he liked it'.

  • MaddogYZ

Posted November 15, 2011 - 07:18 PM

#59

Krannie, just out of curiosity, have you ever ridden a KTM through those whoops or sharp edged potholes? Curious how the PDS worked, may be a bit off topic. I had a WR and rode the hell out of it, I still have a soft spot for them. Sounds like you're well on your way to having a well sorted bike, enjoy! :busted:

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 15, 2011 - 07:38 PM

#60

Krannie, just out of curiosity, have you ever ridden a KTM through those whoops or sharp edged potholes? Curious how the PDS worked, may be a bit off topic. I had a WR and rode the hell out of it, I still have a soft spot for them. Sounds like you're well on your way to having a well sorted bike, enjoy! :busted:


Yes I have, but not one set up for me, or that was recent. I rode a 2004 450 XC with a re-spring and re-valve from ESP. It was nothing special, and the PDS made it very difficult, for me, to feel what the rear tire was doing. As I understand it, if you get the spring rate correct on a PDS, you are duplicating what a linkage does anyway.




 
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