2012 wr450f is revealed! With fi!


196 replies to this topic
  • Rocker01

Posted September 17, 2011 - 05:46 AM

#81

Saying "Vastly superior technology" is the same as saying "my idea is better than yours".

It means nothing until it is proven.

Currently, FI has PROVEN itself to be a better performer, easier to tune, faster to tune, but ONLY FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, and then it requires additional maintenance, or replacement.

More often than a carb by a factor of at least 25 to 50.

FI will eventually catch up with carbs in reliability, probably in the next 3 to 4 generations.

Until then, I refuse to be a Beta Tester for a 'vastly superior technology' that is impractical and high maintenance in an off-road environment. MX is different. You can see your truck from the track!

Here's a list of 'vastly superior technology' that took a looooong time to be perfected:

- 21" front wheel: went from 18, to 19, to 20, to 21, to 23, then back to 21.
- long travel suspension: this could take up books with the 'technology improvements' that lasted about 45 minutes until breaking. 1972 till about 1979 until it was superior for the trail rider.
- Reed valves: that took about 5 generations
- Aluminum frames: still inferior and heavier, but cheaper to make.
- blah blah blah
-


You make it sound like fuel injection is something new and it has not been tested or the technology has not been developed. That's simply not the case.
Like I said, if FI is not reliable at thisv point it, it has nothing to do with FI
Itself, it has to do with crappy implimentation.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 17, 2011 - 07:08 AM

#82

You make it sound like fuel injection is something new and it has not been tested or the technology has not been developed. That's simply not the case.
Like I said, if FI is not reliable at thisv point it, it has nothing to do with FI
Itself, it has to do with crappy implimentation.


That is not all what I said.
I agree with you that FI is superior, but not the versions we are offered. They are all cheap, un-proven, and full of hassles.

  • F350JOHN

Posted September 17, 2011 - 08:41 AM

#83

I'm just waiting to see some specs (weight in particular) on the bike.


Just wanted to let everyone know that the wet weight is listed on the Canadian site as 124kg or 273.5 lbs.


Confirmed: 4.5lbs HEAVIER than the 2011. :smashpc:

Heres the Link:

http://www.yamaha-mo...2=3576&model3=

  • grayracer513

Posted September 17, 2011 - 08:48 AM

#84

-What about the pump filter not being replaceable?
-What about the fuel nozzle not being cleanable with compressed air or a wire 'hair'?
-What about a fuel pump that will fry itself if you run out of gas?
-What about a fuel pump that was never designed, made, or produced for off-road use, and will (and has) self destructed in hard racing?
- What about a fuel pump and BF and nozzle assembly that gets replaced after every moto in SX and MX racing, unlike and FCR that can go 5 races?
-What about having to use a fuel 'sock' in the gas tank to keep dirt out, even if you gas has been filtered?
- What about if you loose pressure in the pump nozzle, and you have to repressurize it with a tool that no dealer has in stock?

I don't think you should buy one.

Did you make all this up, or do brands other than Yamaha have all these problems? The only one on your list I've heard of from YZ450 owners is one or two '10's that have broken the fuel pump in ridiculously hard landings, and that appears to be related to the tank smacking the top of the engine. Injector nozzles can be cleaned by the system itself, and are very resistant to clogging by anything at all.

Some of the stuff you posted above I've never encountered on any EFI system I've ever worked on, and certainly not the the current Yamaha stuff.

  • OLHILLBILLY

Posted September 17, 2011 - 08:51 AM

#85

Confirmed: 4.5lbs HEAVIER than the 2011. :thumbsup:

Heres the Link:

http://www.yamaha-mo...2=3576&model3=


If that's the case for the US models too (which I figure it will be), then it will be a "never mind". With the YZ250F frame and all, I was hoping for a 10-15lbs LESS weight than the '11.
Same $8100 will get me a 30lbs lighter, 2 stroke (that I prefer anyway), KTM 300XC-W.:smashpc:

  • F350JOHN

Posted September 17, 2011 - 09:06 AM

#86

Yeah, I'll probably keep my old CR500.

Posted Image

However, when the new 2012 WRs hit the dealers floors, I'll go take a look.

I've been wanting to try a modern 4 stroke...

  • shrubitup

Posted September 17, 2011 - 11:09 AM

#87

If that's the case for the US models too (which I figure it will be), then it will be a "never mind". With the YZ250F frame and all, I was hoping for a 10-15lbs LESS weight than the '11.
Same $8100 will get me a 30lbs lighter, 2 stroke (that I prefer anyway), KTM 300XC-W.:smashpc:

8100 is alot of dough for a heavy parts bin bike. :busted:

I just hope the 07-11 lose value faster so I can get one. :thumbsup:

  • F350JOHN

Posted September 17, 2011 - 11:20 AM

#88

8100 is alot of dough for a heavy parts bin bike. :thumbsup:

I just hope the 07-11 lose value faster so I can get one. :smashpc:


Don't worry, they will. Check eBay around the time these new ones come out,
the 2011 price will drop significantly because everyone will want the new one.

  • BEATME

Posted September 17, 2011 - 01:25 PM

#89

I could be wrong, but hasn't anyone realized that this "new" fuel injected motor is identical to the fuel injected motor that the yfz450 quad has been running for a few years now? I'm not familiar with that motor's track record but i don't think they just stuck a throttle body on the old motor and put it in a new frame.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 17, 2011 - 02:23 PM

#90

I don't think you should buy one.

Did you make all this up, or do brands other than Yamaha have all these problems? The only one on your list I've heard of from YZ450 owners is one or two '10's that have broken the fuel pump in ridiculously hard landings, and that appears to be related to the tank smacking the top of the engine. Injector nozzles can be cleaned by the system itself, and are very resistant to clogging by anything at all.

Some of the stuff you posted above I've never encountered on any EFI system I've ever worked on, and certainly not the the current Yamaha stuff.


Yeah, I made it aaaalllll up.
I read more than one forum, and ride more than one bike with more than a few people.

I'm just trying to point out to the people that think that 'working on a carb is a hassle' that they are missing the point.
You have to work on everything. FI won't cure not wanting to maintain or work on your bike, and for now, it might even be worse for some riders.

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  • YHGEORGE

Posted September 17, 2011 - 02:23 PM

#91

Yeah, I'll probably keep my old CR500.

Posted Image

However, when the new 2012 WRs hit the dealers floors, I'll go take a look.

I've been wanting to try a modern 4 stroke...


Why did you post that????? Damm you!:smashpc:

  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted September 17, 2011 - 02:39 PM

#92

-What about the pump filter not being replaceable?
-What about the fuel nozzle not being cleanable with compressed air or a wire 'hair'?
-What about a fuel pump that will fry itself if you run out of gas?
-What about a fuel pump that was never designed, made, or produced for off-road use, and will (and has) self destructed in hard racing?
- What about a fuel pump and BF and nozzle assembly that gets replaced after every moto in SX and MX racing, unlike and FCR that can go 5 races?
-What about having to use a fuel 'sock' in the gas tank to keep dirt out, even if you gas has been filtered?
- What about if you loose pressure in the pump nozzle, and you have to repressurize it with a tool that no dealer has in stock?

You mean all those great things about FI, or all the other ones!

You have to keep messing with the carb, because you never finished jetting it correctly.

My KX starts first kick. Needs 4 four slow and one fast to re start if dropped.
My CRFX starts first button push. Needs hot start to re-start
My WR starts first button push. Does not need hot start to re-start
All are FCR carbs with R&D powerbowl II and full Kehien brand re-jets (No JD jets or needles).
None have been FA mix tested, but I would love to do that......


I mainly only mess with the carb when I ride at the higher elevations. Otherwise, it runs just fine and I leave it alone.

On my steel framed wr, its no trouble getting to the carb. But on my KTM, its a hassle. Then it takes 30-45 mins to try something different. I like the idea of EFI cause I can make changes (if any) easier.

If there is room for improvement with the EFI, then I would not be surprised. But it doesn't mean what's out there is bad, does it?

  • F350JOHN

Posted September 17, 2011 - 04:17 PM

#93

FI won't cure not wanting to maintain or work on your bike, and for now, it might even be worse for some riders.

Truer words were never spoken. :smashpc:

  • F350JOHN

Posted September 17, 2011 - 04:22 PM

#94

Why did you post that????? Damm you!:thumbsup:


Because bottom line is, picture threads are better...:smashpc:

  • YHGEORGE

Posted September 17, 2011 - 07:21 PM

#95

Because bottom line is, picture threads are better...:smashpc:


But still trying to resist one of those. Too simple, too fast, too torquey, too reliable, too Honda reliable, too fun, too dadgum tempting!!

  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted September 18, 2011 - 04:58 AM

#96

This oversight is funny:

Posted Image

It's for those days when you want to use your 250F subframe...:smashpc:


Cheesy...

  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted September 18, 2011 - 10:27 AM

#97

Let's wait for the tests, the frame, at least on the 250f, is supposed to be something really special.

  • shrubitup

Posted September 18, 2011 - 10:33 AM

#98

Let's wait for the tests, the frame, at least on the 250f, is supposed to be something really special.

It is. It's supposed be a great handler. I bet it is combined with the better suspension. :smashpc:

  • grayracer513

Posted September 18, 2011 - 11:12 AM

#99

Cheesy...


Looks like an ideal place to bolt a sheet of stainless to protect the frame from the chain.

Word from the underground is that the bike's handling is a quantum improvement over the current model.

  • wizbangdoodle

Posted September 18, 2011 - 10:22 PM


I can understand Krannie's concerns over the FI. For him, it's not the way to go. For me however, it will work great. I don't get to ride as much as I want. I ride mostly woods and I get up in elevation at times. I am not out riding every weekend and really tearing it up, and I certainly will never be down at the Baja. Hope the bike proves to be a winner.




 
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