Suggestions to help my '03 450 chug better


23 replies to this topic
  • ack1961

Posted August 23, 2011 - 09:14 AM

#1

Hello,

I am new to riding (2 1/2 years), but I've been riding nothing but 2-strokes since I started. This 4-stroke is a new experience.

I just picked up an '03 WR450 from a friend in TX.
The following mods had been done to it.
- Uncorked Airbox
- YZ Ignition Mapping (Grey Wire Mod)
- Jet Kit
- GYRT Exhaust Insert (removed)
- Flywheel Key Fix

The bike was tuned (jetted/exhaust baffle removed) for the wide open spaces of TX and it runs like a champ (after the carb leak issue was addressed) throughout the bands.

The bike starts pretty easy, and idles OK.

It's got great acceleration in all gears and is very fast in the wide open, but I need it to chug a bit better in 2nd gear in the tight NC woods. I've only ridden it once in NC, but I stalled it a half dozen times as I de-accelerate for tight corners (usually in 2nd gear). I might need to clutch it quicker, but I'd love to be able to chug through the tight stuff barely touching the clutch for traction control. I love the E-Start!!

I don't think it's bogging - when I crack the throttle, it responds nicely, and there is steady power as I open it up to WOT.

The current config looks like this:
Gearing - 14/50
Jets - 146 Main; 48 Pilot
Needle - #6 (2nd pos from Top)
Air Screw - 1 3/4 turns out

It's been suggested that I try a 13T front.
I've been reading some Jetting/Performance stickys here, and I may want/need to change the Pilot jet, but I'm certainly no expert.
I thought I'd try here for some suggestions.

Thanks,
Steve

  • YamaLink

Posted August 23, 2011 - 01:05 PM

#2

I've run the 13/50 often and it's a rip snortin' tight woods affair......with a bit of an odd gap between 2nd and 3rd. So it's great for 1st and 2nd gear trails but anything more open I like putting a 14/51 on.

Everything else you mentioned sounds good especially the clutch technique.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 23, 2011 - 01:38 PM

#3

Hello,

I am new to riding (2 1/2 years), but I've been riding nothing but 2-strokes since I started. This 4-stroke is a new experience.

I just picked up an '03 WR450 from a friend in TX.
The following mods had been done to it.
- Uncorked Airbox
- YZ Ignition Mapping (Grey Wire Mod)
- Jet Kit
- GYRT Exhaust Insert (removed)
- Flywheel Key Fix

The bike was tuned (jetted/exhaust baffle removed) for the wide open spaces of TX and it runs like a champ (after the carb leak issue was addressed) throughout the bands.

The bike starts pretty easy, and idles OK.

It's got great acceleration in all gears and is very fast in the wide open, but I need it to chug a bit better in 2nd gear in the tight NC woods. I've only ridden it once in NC, but I stalled it a half dozen times as I de-accelerate for tight corners (usually in 2nd gear). I might need to clutch it quicker, but I'd love to be able to chug through the tight stuff barely touching the clutch for traction control. I love the E-Start!!

I don't think it's bogging - when I crack the throttle, it responds nicely, and there is steady power as I open it up to WOT.

The current config looks like this:
Gearing - 14/50
Jets - 146 Main; 48 Pilot
Needle - #6 (2nd pos from Top)
Air Screw - 1 3/4 turns out

It's been suggested that I try a 13T front.
I've been reading some Jetting/Performance stickys here, and I may want/need to change the Pilot jet, but I'm certainly no expert.
I thought I'd try here for some suggestions.

Thanks,
Steve


Where did you come up with those jets?

The JD kit recommends (below 2000ft elevation):

165 main
42-45 pilot
Red needle on 4th clip from top
FUEL screw 1.25- 1.75 turns
...and, you should change your leak jet to 50, upgrade the accelerator pump detent spring (merge racing).

At 3000+ higher elevations switch to the Blue needle and 150 main jet.

I also very much like the R&D Powerbowl for amazing low rpm and partially open throttle control. Makes it like FI.......

I can put the bike in gear, not touch the throttle, and chug around the neighborhood.

  • ack1961

Posted August 23, 2011 - 05:44 PM

#4

I've run the 13/50 often and it's a rip snortin' tight woods affair......with a bit of an odd gap between 2nd and 3rd. So it's great for 1st and 2nd gear trails but anything more open I like putting a 14/51 on.

Everything else you mentioned sounds good especially the clutch technique.


Thanks. I'm riding more 2nd/3rd gear trails. I find myself in 1st in very few places. There are quite a few spots to open it up. I may try a 13 and see what it does for me. I have some video of my first ride. It's not crazy tight or anything, but it's a fun ride. I'd be interested to see if anyone thinks I should change gearing based on the woods I ride in.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

  • ack1961

Posted August 23, 2011 - 06:09 PM

#5

Where did you come up with those jets?

The JD kit recommends (below 2000ft elevation):

165 main
42-45 pilot
Red needle on 4th clip from top
FUEL screw 1.25- 1.75 turns
...and, you should change your leak jet to 50, upgrade the accelerator pump detent spring (merge racing).

At 3000+ higher elevations switch to the Blue needle and 150 main jet.

I also very much like the R&D Powerbowl for amazing low rpm and partially open throttle control. Makes it like FI.......

I can put the bike in gear, not touch the throttle, and chug around the neighborhood.


The bike was jetted this way by the previous owner - the actual Jet Kit is on it's way to me from TX. He's also supplying his notes on the changes from stock jetting. According to my book, the Leak Jet #50 is stock. I'll double-check whats in there.

Oddly enough, I can chug around my neighborhood too. I need it to chug on my buddy's trails a little better.

I will also look into getting a Powerbowl.

Thanks for all the info - great stuff.

Steve

  • MANIAC998

Posted August 23, 2011 - 06:46 PM

#6

Reqluse clutch, and be done with it! I describe them as legalized cheating, that's how good they are! Maniac

  • ack1961

Posted August 24, 2011 - 03:27 AM

#7

Reqluse clutch, and be done with it! I describe them as legalized cheating, that's how good they are! Maniac


I have a Rekluse in my KTM. Not my cup of tea.

  • miweber929

Posted August 24, 2011 - 03:37 AM

#8

You may just want to get used to it a bit before making too many changes as my 04 with a Q2 slip on, free mods and jetted will absolutely WALK in first and second with a 15/49 setup.

I've even ridden next to my fiancée as she was walking to work with the clutch out and crawling at a walking pace without an issue. Four stroke vs. 2 stroke are totally different powerbands and if your a newer rider only used to one or the other it's a big change. 4 stroke has a lot of engine braking in the tight going.

Just another thought.

13 up front is a big change and will affect your top speed quite a bit, even in 3rd and 4th gear which may make the trip to the tight spots a little tough.

Mike

  • GuyGraham

Posted August 24, 2011 - 03:44 AM

#9

I'm down on 12/50 gearing in order to stop the stalling issues I had

I'm real happy with it now
on 13/50 1st was still too high for the real tight stuff

It still does 70mph which is plenty fast enough

  • ack1961

Posted August 24, 2011 - 11:45 AM

#10

Thanks for all for the replies. It may be just an adjustment period for me being so new to it all. I got so used to throwing that 212 lb. KTM around - and getting bounced off it.

I shot some video of my lousy riding, but the audio is very good. It might help someone determine if I should gear up, or if it's just a matter of me getting used to riding this monster. There are shortcuts to 3 short videos. You can even see where I stall it a few times. That could just be bad technique.

The place I rode is fairly indicative of the type of environment we usually ride in. Our other favorite place is a lot tighter pinewood-type riding, but the same sort of terrain.
One of my riding buddies is on an old XR400 and I swear he never takes it out of 2nd gear.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZGW6P5sVNk

I'd be interested to hear if my WR "sounds" like it's setup properly for the terrain.

Thanks.

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  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 24, 2011 - 06:55 PM

#11

Thanks for all for the replies. It may be just an adjustment period for me being so new to it all. I got so used to throwing that 212 lb. KTM around - and getting bounced off it.

I shot some video of my lousy riding, but the audio is very good. It might help someone determine if I should gear up, or if it's just a matter of me getting used to riding this monster. There are shortcuts to 3 short videos. You can even see where I stall it a few times. That could just be bad technique.

The place I rode is fairly indicative of the type of environment we usually ride in. Our other favorite place is a lot tighter pinewood-type riding, but the same sort of terrain.
One of my riding buddies is on an old XR400 and I swear he never takes it out of 2nd gear.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZGW6P5sVNk

I'd be interested to hear if my WR "sounds" like it's setup properly for the terrain.

Thanks.


It sounds like the exhaust has no back pressure or tip......way too loud!

  • ack1961

Posted August 25, 2011 - 05:13 AM

#12

It sounds like the exhaust has no back pressure or tip......way too loud!


The seller handed me a GYTR insert when I bought the bike. He had jetted this WR to use with the insert, but ultimately removed it - said the bike ran better without it.

I'm still experimenting with the overall setup - I'm not too worried about "too loud" just yet - unless it's affecting performance.

Granted, when I ride at public places, I'll need to get to ~92 dB in order to ride there.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 25, 2011 - 05:26 AM

#13

The seller handed me a GYTR insert when I bought the bike. He had jetted this WR to use with the insert, but ultimately removed it - said the bike ran better without it.

I'm still experimenting with the overall setup - I'm not too worried about "too loud" just yet - unless it's affecting performance.

Granted, when I ride at public places, I'll need to get to ~92 dB in order to ride there.


Lack of backpressure will hurt performance, but in the terrain you are riding in, you may not notice it.

  • ack1961

Posted August 25, 2011 - 05:53 AM

#14

Lack of backpressure will hurt performance, but in the terrain you are riding in, you may not notice it.


Interestingly enough, the previous owner had "tuned" out a lot of the hit. He said that after the Grey Wire, Exhaust & Airbox mods, he said the hit was too violent, so he made some Jetting mods.

I'm new to all this, but I really think I would be more comfortable with a slightly better hit. The one thing I really like about this bike is that I don't break away the rear as much as I do on my 2T's, but I do think that there is more performance hidden there for me to experiment with.

After I get the Jet Kit from him, I may try to re-jet it for peak performance and back off from there until it suits me better.

As I improve as a rider, I think this bike will fun to ride in all the different terrain. I just need to find a good baseline and start from there.

Thanks again,
Steve

  • strtdsmallproject

Posted August 25, 2011 - 04:58 PM

#15

I'm down on 12/50 gearing in order to stop the stalling issues I had

I'm real happy with it now
on 13/50 1st was still too high for the real tight stuff

It still does 70mph which is plenty fast enough


Im running 12/50 also and rekluse I agree. I race and ride very tight woods. I love tight woods.

  • ack1961

Posted August 25, 2011 - 05:04 PM

#16

Im running 12/50 also and rekluse I agree. I race and ride very tight woods. I love tight woods.


I might as well try both the 12T & 13T to see which feels better. Our woods aren't too terribly tight, nor do I race, but these are pretty inexpensive experiments.

Thanks for the advice.

Edited by ack1961, August 25, 2011 - 05:32 PM.


  • Chas_M

Posted August 26, 2011 - 06:27 AM

#17

Where did you come up with those jets?

The JD kit recommends (below 2000ft elevation):

165 main
42-45 pilot
Red needle on 4th clip from top
FUEL screw 1.25- 1.75 turns
...and, you should change your leak jet to 50, upgrade the accelerator pump detent spring (merge racing).

At 3000+ higher elevations switch to the Blue needle and 150 main jet.


Going from the red needle to the richer blue needle for higher elevations doesn't make sense to me. Also, dropping from a 165 main to a 150 main seems a little drastic. Please elaborate on the higher altitude jetting suggestions.

  • ArcticWR400

Posted August 26, 2011 - 07:09 AM

#18

I ride some very tight woods mixed with canadian shield rock and boggy, get real stuck, peat moss type of areas in the NWT, Canada. I ride stock gearing, with no airbox lid, YZ timing mod, aftermarket FMF pipe and silencer, JD jetting kit to match.

I stall frequently also, usually due to pure exhaustion. However, I find I do need to use the clutch a LOT. as is, my bike tops out about 65mph. I think that it being big, heavy, and powerful is both what makes it fun and what makes it exhausting to ride. I would try opening her back up with the jetting, and get the power back. Put in 20 or 30 hours in the saddle and learn to tweak that clutch... if it still isn't workin for you, THEN change it.

Just my opinion... and it was free. So take it for what it's worth :)

  • ack1961

Posted August 26, 2011 - 07:36 AM

#19

I ride some very tight woods mixed with canadian shield rock and boggy, get real stuck, peat moss type of areas in the NWT, Canada. I ride stock gearing, with no airbox lid, YZ timing mod, aftermarket FMF pipe and silencer, JD jetting kit to match.

I stall frequently also, usually due to pure exhaustion. However, I find I do need to use the clutch a LOT. as is, my bike tops out about 65mph. I think that it being big, heavy, and powerful is both what makes it fun and what makes it exhausting to ride. I would try opening her back up with the jetting, and get the power back. Put in 20 or 30 hours in the saddle and learn to tweak that clutch... if it still isn't workin for you, THEN change it.

Just my opinion... and it was free. So take it for what it's worth :)


I think you offer great advice. I hope to ride this Sunday after the hurricane rolls through. I'm going to leave it as is, as I think a large portion of my concerns are just a matter of me getting used to the bike - the clutching is completely different (I'm coming off a KTM/Rekluse with no manual clutch and a KDX220 that is a ridiculously easy woods bike to ride).

Funny how you mentioned physical exhaustion. I had to pull over 3 times during my 20 mile ride on the WR because I could barely stand up on the pegs - that's never happened to me before, and I've ridden these trails a couple dozen times before.

I do appreciate your input (and everyone else's). It's all good info, and I can try to apply to remedies if I'm still not satisfied after some valuable seat time. Just from re-watching my video's, I can tell that I'm not keeping the engine rev'd high enough or feathering the clutch properly in the tighter turns.

All in good time...I hope.

  • CanadianWR450

Posted August 27, 2011 - 06:04 AM

#20

I ride some very tight woods mixed with canadian shield rock and boggy, get real stuck, peat moss type of areas in the NWT, Canada. I ride stock gearing, with no airbox lid, YZ timing mod, aftermarket FMF pipe and silencer, JD jetting kit to match.

I stall frequently also, usually due to pure exhaustion. However, I find I do need to use the clutch a LOT. as is, my bike tops out about 65mph. I think that it being big, heavy, and powerful is both what makes it fun and what makes it exhausting to ride. I would try opening her back up with the jetting, and get the power back. Put in 20 or 30 hours in the saddle and learn to tweak that clutch... if it still isn't workin for you, THEN change it.

Just my opinion... and it was free. So take it for what it's worth :)


I also agree with looking at your jetting as step #1..
Your jetting numbers seem way off from the "normal".
Use the settings as recommended in your JD kit to start.




 
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