clutch problem


21 replies to this topic
  • superpump

Posted July 26, 2011 - 09:33 AM

#1

I'm quite new to the sport and have a question. i have a 09 wr450f and at the end of my last ride i noticed when i pulled in the clutch it wanted to drag the back tire like it wasnt engaging fully in neutral it roles fine. i checked the linkage and its all tite no slack in the lever just like before so im stumped :smirk:

  • dgcars

Posted July 26, 2011 - 10:41 AM

#2

Put the bike on its side and remove the clutch cover. With the lever pulled, make sure all the plates are free. Check also that the basket fingers have no deep notches.

  • bmonnig

Posted July 26, 2011 - 01:12 PM

#3

Well, what a convenient thread. :smirk: I have a friend's WR 450 that I'm looking at. Same symptoms as the OP. Clutch is dragging. When disengaged at idle, it'll still bog down and kill the bike. When you pull up to a stop after riding, you can't get the bike out of gear without killing it first.

I threw the bike on it's side and pulled the clutch cover. The gasket and fiber plates look new, so I guess someone has been in there recently. The hub fingers show signs of wear / grooving, but nothing too bad. I did notice that about 4 (or was it 3?) of the steels were "domed". Those 3 or four were noticeable by the naked eye. The other plates (5 or so, IIRC) seemed to be flat.

Would this be causing my issue? If so, do I need to replace all the plates, or just the domed ones?

  • dgcars

Posted July 26, 2011 - 01:34 PM

#4

Use a straight edge & replace those that are not flat. If they have been running like that for a while....the fibres will be shot too.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted July 26, 2011 - 01:42 PM

#5

Yup, one bad metal plate will over heat the clutch, and eventually warp all the outer metal plates, which in turn wear out the fibers.

  • bmonnig

Posted July 26, 2011 - 02:06 PM

#6

Yup, one bad metal plate will over heat the clutch, and eventually warp all the outer metal plates, which in turn wear out the fibers.


Now that you mention that, the 3 outer plates were the most "domed". The inner plates were the straight ones.

  • superpump

Posted July 27, 2011 - 02:51 PM

#7

thanks for the help guys. i tore into it havent goten it all the way out all my bigger sockets are at work so have to get that tomarow but everything els looks new no wear domeing plates and fingures look new as they should probubly only 15 rides on the bike.

  • bmonnig

Posted August 08, 2011 - 03:19 PM

#8

Well, now I'm kind of confused. With new clutch fibers as well as new clutch steels, the clutch -still- drags, just as it did with the old parts. WTH? What are some other things that would cause the clutch to drag?

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 08, 2011 - 03:55 PM

#9

Well, now I'm kind of confused. With new clutch fibers as well as new clutch steels, the clutch -still- drags, just as it did with the old parts. WTH? What are some other things that would cause the clutch to drag?


All clutches drag a little bit.
Are you saying it drags when the motor is hot, and you have been riding it?

  • bmonnig

Posted August 08, 2011 - 04:02 PM

#10

All clutches drag a little bit.
Are you saying it drags when the motor is hot, and you have been riding it?


Yeah, I'm aware that all clutches drag. However, they shouldn't drag enough that you can't go to N (from 1st or 2nd) without shutting off the bike. Also, when the bike is idling and I kick it into gear, it's dragging enough to hear the RPM's drop a bit, as well as feel a tiny bit of pull from the bike.

I haven't ridden it long enough to get hot, and see how it behaves then. It behaves in the above manner from initial kick (when cold) through warm-ish. I shut it off after that.

I'm reading that dirty oil may cause the drag? I'm thinking the next step will be an oil change, and see if that helps. Adjusting the cable didn't seem to do anything.

Again, it's an '03 WR450, if that matters.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 08, 2011 - 07:13 PM

#11

Yeah, I'm aware that all clutches drag. However, they shouldn't drag enough that you can't go to N (from 1st or 2nd) without shutting off the bike. Also, when the bike is idling and I kick it into gear, it's dragging enough to hear the RPM's drop a bit, as well as feel a tiny bit of pull from the bike.

I haven't ridden it long enough to get hot, and see how it behaves then.
It behaves in the above manner from initial kick (when cold) through warm-ish. I shut it off after that.

I'm reading that dirty oil may cause the drag? I'm thinking the next step will be an oil change, and see if that helps. Adjusting the cable didn't seem to do anything.

Again, it's an '03 WR450, if that matters.


Do you have a fresh clutch cable??
If you haven't ridden the bike, you are chasing phantoms.

EVERY bike does this to some extent.

  • bmonnig

Posted August 08, 2011 - 07:16 PM

#12

Do you have a fresh clutch cable??
If you haven't ridden the bike, you are chasing phantoms.

EVERY bike does this to some extent.

\

Again, I know that every bike drags to some extent. No, I do not have a fresh clutch cable, but I have the cable adjusted such that there is no (or minimal) slack. I have ridden the bike. That's how I know I can't shift into N from 1 / 2, and how I feel the "pull" when shifting into gear (even with the clutch pulled in).

I've ridden the bike around the yard, and briefly up / down the street / block. The symptoms don't change, as I didn't see the need to ride the bike until it actually got hot, and started to potentially drag worse.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 08, 2011 - 07:44 PM

#13

\

Again, I know that every bike drags to some extent. No, I do not have a fresh clutch cable, but I have the cable adjusted such that there is no (or minimal) slack. I have ridden the bike. That's how I know I can't shift into N from 1 / 2, and how I feel the "pull" when shifting into gear (even with the clutch pulled in).

I've ridden the bike around the yard, and briefly up / down the street / block. The symptoms don't change, as I didn't see the need to ride the bike until it actually got hot, and started to potentially drag worse.


What if you adjust it to have less than minimal slack? Take all the slack out as possible, from all the adjusters?

Does it go from drag, to normal, to slipping, as you keep turning the adjusters tighter?

  • bmonnig

Posted August 09, 2011 - 02:15 PM

#14

What if you adjust it to have less than minimal slack? Take all the slack out as possible, from all the adjusters?

Does it go from drag, to normal, to slipping, as you keep turning the adjusters tighter?


Cable is now tightened up like a banjo spring at all adjusters. Trying to pull it is like trying to set a compound bow. Still, when I click it in gear it starts dragging and trying (barely) to pull the bike. Moreover, it's nearly impossible to get it into neutral without shutting the bike off. Same symptoms it's had since the start.

Dished clutch steels and old fibers replaced with new steels and fibers.
Has new oil and new filter.

Would slight wear on the clutch basket cause this? I checked out the grooves when the clutch was apart, and they didn't seem to significant to me. Still, maybe it's time to get out the file and smooth them down completely?

Other ideas?

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 09, 2011 - 04:26 PM

#15

Cable is now tightened up like a banjo spring at all adjusters. Trying to pull it is like trying to set a compound bow. Still, when I click it in gear it starts dragging and trying (barely) to pull the bike. Moreover, it's nearly impossible to get it into neutral without shutting the bike off. Same symptoms it's had since the start.

Dished clutch steels and old fibers replaced with new steels and fibers.
Has new oil and new filter.

Would slight wear on the clutch basket cause this? I checked out the grooves when the clutch was apart, and they didn't seem to significant to me. Still, maybe it's time to get out the file and smooth them down completely?

Other ideas?


Clutch Basket wear has nothing to do with your problem.

You have a 'throwout' problem, due to most likely a missing washer or two.

Have you looked at the exploded diagram for your clutch to make sure you have the (2) thrust washers in the right places?

  • bmonnig

Posted August 09, 2011 - 07:17 PM

#16

Clutch Basket wear has nothing to do with your problem.

You have a 'throwout' problem, due to most likely a missing washer or two.

Have you looked at the exploded diagram for your clutch to make sure you have the (2) thrust washers in the right places?


Yeah, I've checked the diagram, and just pulled the clutch apart again to check. The washers are there, as is the circlip.

I'm thinking that this may be a travel problem on the lever / cable side of things. It just seems like the cable reaches the end of it's travel before the disengagement arm reaches the end of -it's- travel. With the clutch hub off and the cable removed from the disengagement lever / pawl, by moving the disengagement pawl manually I could get more travel at the pushrod (hub side) than I could with just the cable.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 09, 2011 - 07:32 PM

#17

Yeah, I've checked the diagram, and just pulled the clutch apart again to check. The washers are there, as is the circlip.

I'm thinking that this may be a travel problem on the lever / cable side of things. It just seems like the cable reaches the end of it's travel before the disengagement arm reaches the end of -it's- travel. With the clutch hub off and the cable removed from the disengagement lever / pawl, by moving the disengagement pawl manually I could get more travel at the pushrod (hub side) than I could with just the cable.


If you do not have a factory perch and lever, you might run into problems with lever ratios, as Honda, Suzuki, Kawi, and Yammie all use different ratios on different bikes and models. EG: Honda CRF lever ratio changed in 2001.

The placement of the cable end, low or high, changes the pull distance of the cable.
You probably have the wrong lever.....

Low ratio:
Posted Image

High ratio
Posted Image

  • bmonnig

Posted August 09, 2011 - 08:08 PM

#18

The lever has the following digits cast in, but thus far I've been unable to match this to a specific model / year:

YG979
5TJ
SN3S2 (or was that 5N352...I'll have to check in the morning.)

I am noticing a few small differences vs the '03 parts fiche I've been looking at as well. I'll try to take some pictures tomorrow, and see if that helps clear it up.

  • Sir_nick2

Posted August 09, 2011 - 08:28 PM

#19

Dunno if this helps but could it be over torqued clutch springs? Or out of spec springs?
Just a thought

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 09, 2011 - 09:18 PM

#20

Dunno if this helps but could it be over torqued clutch springs? Or out of spec springs?
Just a thought


You don't torque the clutch springs. The bolt bottoms at only a few pounds.




 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.