William1 said:
One of lifes unfortunate lessons. Hopefully, someonelse will learn from this and not get taken.
Why I made the thread.
A message/word of advice.
Started by
bentsprocket
, Jul 14 2011 08:34 AM
36 replies to this topic
Posted 14 July 2011 - 04:48 PM
bentsprocket said:
I hear you buddy! But, When I bought my wife her new '09 150RB. I walked away from the deal saying I won't pay for a snot nosed kid to put on a front wheel, handle bar, pegs, and controls together.
The whole sales and parts area said "We can't and won't sell it then". "It has to do with a liability control". Honda had informed the (Amarillo) dealership they would lose their dealers license if they sold a crated or unassembled unit.
I waited almost two weeks before going back to call their bluff but they stood firm. I can't complain. We got a heck of deal.
The whole sales and parts area said "We can't and won't sell it then". "It has to do with a liability control". Honda had informed the (Amarillo) dealership they would lose their dealers license if they sold a crated or unassembled unit.
I waited almost two weeks before going back to call their bluff but they stood firm. I can't complain. We got a heck of deal.
Actually, there is some truth to that (liability). Also, the manufacturer wants the bike inspected, oil checked, blah-blah before delivery for warranty purposes. The selling dealer is confirming there are no defects at the time of delivery. It is true a dealer could (but probably would not) have their franchise pulled. The cost of assembly and PDI is rebated to the dealer. If the dealer tries to charge you a setup fee, they are ripping you off. No ifs, ans or Butts:moon:
Posted 22 July 2011 - 04:11 AM
I sent them an email about this sticky basically asked them if their Honda gold card scam is worth the advertisement. I hate places like this, we as customers should warn others about such places. Hopefully if some emails are sent they may see the error of their ways. Thanks for the heads up to stay away from Fort Walton Yamaha/Honda in Fl.
Posted 15 August 2011 - 10:59 AM
Just came across your thread...I my brother lives in FWB (I live in Newark DE). Don't hear that town mentioned much when people speak of FL...FWB, Crestview, Destin are some of FL's best kept secrets!!
Posted 15 August 2011 - 01:16 PM
delawhere said:
Just came across your thread...I my brother lives in FWB (I live in Newark DE). Don't hear that town mentioned much when people speak of FL...FWB, Crestview, Destin are some of FL's best kept secrets!!
Yeah those area's are awesome for sure.
Posted 14 September 2011 - 04:41 PM
Sorry to hear what that dealership did to you.Liars and thieves are one in the sameYou can bet they will reap what they sow.My father owned a boat dealership and was very succsessful,his customers were his main priority and he treated each and every one the way he would like to be treated.He built his business on honesty and fair prices and had more repeat customers that would tell their friends who to deal with and he retired fairly wealthy.HEY, FT.WALTON YAMAHA/HONDA,your a bunch of thieves,your time is coming.
Posted 29 November 2011 - 01:08 AM
Within reading this I give props to full throttle husqvarna( Brisbane , Australia ) that talks you out of these third party warranties for the reasons above and won't sell them to you unless you insist.
Posted 15 December 2011 - 06:00 PM
TheLetterJ said:
So my next question would be: did you actually read the paperwork before you signed it and gave them your money?
I am absolutely not defending them as it sounds like that dealership is crooked. I did buy an aftermarket warranty when I bought my last bike and I made damn sure I knew what it would and would not cover before I signed anything.
Either way, $2500 for the life of the loan (even if it is a 6 year loan) sounds like waaaayyy too much even if they did stand by what they said. I paid ~$800 for a 5 year warranty that covered all parts AND labor should anything in the drivetrain (minus clutch plates, chain, and sprockets) need replacement. The only things that were excluded otherwise were the shock/fork internals, tires/wheels/ brake pads/rotors, and bodywork... basically normal wear items. My warranty also did not include basic service which it sounds like they promised you, that would be called a "service contract."
Look over your paper work closely as they may have you by the balls and leave you with no leg to stand on if it ends up going to court.
MORAL OF THE STORY: ALWAYS READ THE FINE PRINT!
I am absolutely not defending them as it sounds like that dealership is crooked. I did buy an aftermarket warranty when I bought my last bike and I made damn sure I knew what it would and would not cover before I signed anything.
Either way, $2500 for the life of the loan (even if it is a 6 year loan) sounds like waaaayyy too much even if they did stand by what they said. I paid ~$800 for a 5 year warranty that covered all parts AND labor should anything in the drivetrain (minus clutch plates, chain, and sprockets) need replacement. The only things that were excluded otherwise were the shock/fork internals, tires/wheels/ brake pads/rotors, and bodywork... basically normal wear items. My warranty also did not include basic service which it sounds like they promised you, that would be called a "service contract."
Look over your paper work closely as they may have you by the balls and leave you with no leg to stand on if it ends up going to court.
MORAL OF THE STORY: ALWAYS READ THE FINE PRINT!
I purchase my KTM from ProCaliber in Longview WA. Luckily I new the sales manager and he did talk me into the 4 year, 3rd party warranty for $600. My bike has been in for the oil transfer deal twice along with a couple of other things and they have taken care of it for $0 out of pocket. Sounds like I am one of the lucky ones and got a dealership to stand behind their stuff.
Posted 20 January 2012 - 01:49 PM
William1, on 14 July 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:
Correct.
Common ploy is to park the car/bike in view while you are sitting at the salesmans desk. Owners manual, keys just in reach. "all you have to do is sign and it is yours........." I go in armed with knowledge. What is an actual fair amount to pay on a given day. I will however, negotiate on the phone and by email. Then when I walk in, most of the BS is already done. Some dealers only will accept the MSRP plus. I find this out in advance and will not go in the door. Give me an email, sent by the manager/owner of the price. Then I will come in.
Common ploy is to park the car/bike in view while you are sitting at the salesmans desk. Owners manual, keys just in reach. "all you have to do is sign and it is yours........." I go in armed with knowledge. What is an actual fair amount to pay on a given day. I will however, negotiate on the phone and by email. Then when I walk in, most of the BS is already done. Some dealers only will accept the MSRP plus. I find this out in advance and will not go in the door. Give me an email, sent by the manager/owner of the price. Then I will come in.
I totally agree with this... when I buy i toy i have to buy new as I am not mechanically inclinded... life sucks that way for guys like me... i have good friends but i always feel i am using them... so i buy new...
Like this quote said... go in... now what you want what you want to pay... i phone about 10 diff shops... tell them i wanna buy TODAY (after my research is done) and say i want a no BS on the back of my truck price and that's what I found works best for me
IF ANYONE is from BC, CANADA or plans on riding up here... Performance Allterain in 100 Mile House BC, talk to Jim, I'd drive cross country to buy and have them work on my bikes... and I have...
Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:59 PM
William1, on 14 July 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:
All salesman own lots of bikes and quads. Surprisingly, they and thier buddies all own the exact same bike/quad you are buying. They all like you. They are your friend. Until after you sign the papers. You might as well bring soap on a rope as most delaers sales people only want to maximize (can't really blame them) profits
Lol the local shop owner takes me riding and racing. And he even hired me for just doing light work around the shop. He definately treats his customers well haha
Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:51 AM
bentsprocket, on 14 July 2011 - 02:53 PM, said:
I hear you buddy! But, When I bought my wife her new '09 150RB. I walked away from the deal saying I won't pay for a snot nosed kid to put on a front wheel, handle bar, pegs, and controls together.
The whole sales and parts area said "We can't and won't sell it then". "It has to do with a liability control". Honda had informed the (Amarillo) dealership they would lose their dealers license if they sold a crated or unassembled unit.
I waited almost two weeks before going back to call their bluff but they stood firm. I can't complain. We got a heck of deal.
The whole sales and parts area said "We can't and won't sell it then". "It has to do with a liability control". Honda had informed the (Amarillo) dealership they would lose their dealers license if they sold a crated or unassembled unit.
I waited almost two weeks before going back to call their bluff but they stood firm. I can't complain. We got a heck of deal.
Frieght
Setup
Holdback
This means the bike with a 7,000 MSRP, the dealership is getting the costs of setup, frieght and holdback refunded to them after the sale of the bike. If the dealer sells the bike for less than the MSRP, those items are still refunded. The only difference is the profit spread between actual invoice (cost/price from the manuacturer to the dealer) and MSRP.
A high volume dealer can make a profit even selling at invoice. Setup allowances are nearly excessive, Holdback amounts are larger the less time the bike sits in inventory and actual shipping costs can be less per unit if a half or whole truckload is delivered. There is another item not listed that is a further incentive to the dealer and it is a negotiated performance return. The manufacturer determines how many bike (conservative) a dealer can sell in a year. If the dealer beats those nubers, they get a percentage back on the dollars spent. Simmilar programs are run on parts sales too.
So.... That $7,000 MSRP bike probably could be sold at $6,000 plus tax and title. Any redundant charges the dealer adds on is simply a way to make you pay extra.
Ever seen 'shop materials' on your repair invoce? Same deal. Just another way to milk a few more bucks out of you. You may notice they never show when warranty work is done.
Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:17 PM
William1, on 19 February 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:
I think you misunderstood. It is true that the dealer must assemble and test the bike. It is to minimize future warranty claim s and liability for a accident caused by prep. However, the MSRP of a bike has several hidden numbers.
Frieght
Setup
Holdback
This means the bike with a 7,000 MSRP, the dealership is getting the costs of setup, frieght and holdback refunded to them after the sale of the bike. If the dealer sells the bike for less than the MSRP, those items are still refunded. The only difference is the profit spread between actual invoice (cost/price from the manuacturer to the dealer) and MSRP.
A high volume dealer can make a profit even selling at invoice. Setup allowances are nearly excessive, Holdback amounts are larger the less time the bike sits in inventory and actual shipping costs can be less per unit if a half or whole truckload is delivered. There is another item not listed that is a further incentive to the dealer and it is a negotiated performance return. The manufacturer determines how many bike (conservative) a dealer can sell in a year. If the dealer beats those nubers, they get a percentage back on the dollars spent. Simmilar programs are run on parts sales too.
So.... That $7,000 MSRP bike probably could be sold at $6,000 plus tax and title. Any redundant charges the dealer adds on is simply a way to make you pay extra.
Ever seen 'shop materials' on your repair invoce? Same deal. Just another way to milk a few more bucks out of you. You may notice they never show when warranty work is done.
Frieght
Setup
Holdback
This means the bike with a 7,000 MSRP, the dealership is getting the costs of setup, frieght and holdback refunded to them after the sale of the bike. If the dealer sells the bike for less than the MSRP, those items are still refunded. The only difference is the profit spread between actual invoice (cost/price from the manuacturer to the dealer) and MSRP.
A high volume dealer can make a profit even selling at invoice. Setup allowances are nearly excessive, Holdback amounts are larger the less time the bike sits in inventory and actual shipping costs can be less per unit if a half or whole truckload is delivered. There is another item not listed that is a further incentive to the dealer and it is a negotiated performance return. The manufacturer determines how many bike (conservative) a dealer can sell in a year. If the dealer beats those nubers, they get a percentage back on the dollars spent. Simmilar programs are run on parts sales too.
So.... That $7,000 MSRP bike probably could be sold at $6,000 plus tax and title. Any redundant charges the dealer adds on is simply a way to make you pay extra.
Ever seen 'shop materials' on your repair invoce? Same deal. Just another way to milk a few more bucks out of you. You may notice they never show when warranty work is done.
No misunderstanding, it has been awhile since I've gone over this thread. I am trying to replace the train of thought when discussing this. Let us look at it this way. When I signed the dotted line, we(I) think we came out $1200 under their asking price. Chris, our salesman and friend now still says we "escaped" the major mark ups and they still received their "kick backs". I do see your point and know from the car business it is a numbers game and they have to make money. Why sell them at cost or less... They'd have to shut the doors faster than they are now. This last two years has hurt them tremendously.
Posted 23 March 2012 - 02:56 PM
Hey bentsprocket, ya i have had the same problem at my dealership, i my first bike was a 1998 yamaha yzinger pw80, buuuut... when i got my ttr 125 in 07 or 08 idr, they tried charging us 50$ extra, sooo like that one guy said READ everything before you buy it, and we did and found all these dumb prices for nothing so we were like "charge us that now, and we'll never buy anything from you again." or u be straight up and my god that got their attention, so they threw in a free helmet. i just got a 2011 yz 85 and had no problems probably because they knew us. so whats done is done.
Posted 02 May 2012 - 01:02 PM
Stories like this are heart breaking but all of this can be avoided if you follow a couple, non-negotiable rules of personal finance:
1) Never EVER borrow money to buy anything but a house. If you can't afford to pay cash for a bike you can't afford the bike
2) Never EVER buy an extended warranty. In the car business these warranties make more money for the dealer and the finance personel than the actual sale of the car!! That much profit means someone is getting screwed.
3) Negotiate from a position of education and power. Know what you are willing to pay and be patient enough to find a willing partner in your deal.
1) Never EVER borrow money to buy anything but a house. If you can't afford to pay cash for a bike you can't afford the bike
2) Never EVER buy an extended warranty. In the car business these warranties make more money for the dealer and the finance personel than the actual sale of the car!! That much profit means someone is getting screwed.
3) Negotiate from a position of education and power. Know what you are willing to pay and be patient enough to find a willing partner in your deal.
Posted 08 June 2012 - 10:06 AM
Bummer dude.
The Honda dealer in my area is notorious for shady deals,however sometimes they screw themselves.
I financed a new CR250R,so when the did the insurance(for loan) they wrote up passenger insurance.On a strictly offroad race dirtbike?
Anyway w/ my buddy on the back we crashed thru a barracade,he basicly surfed me on the asfault guiding us w/ his teeth,all the front were ground to the gums,I had major road rash,but didnt lose any teeth.The insurance covered it and fixed my bike!
It was cuz of a pushy salesman selling last years bike(new) and making a deal that wasnt right in anyway,shape or form.Payments were like $75 a mo. including insurance w/$100 down.
Also had a couple buddys that bought XL650's that year,there was some weird recall years later and they both got brand new engines.
But Ive had many buddys get screwed there.And a couple die on their bikes.
The Honda dealer in my area is notorious for shady deals,however sometimes they screw themselves.
I financed a new CR250R,so when the did the insurance(for loan) they wrote up passenger insurance.On a strictly offroad race dirtbike?
Anyway w/ my buddy on the back we crashed thru a barracade,he basicly surfed me on the asfault guiding us w/ his teeth,all the front were ground to the gums,I had major road rash,but didnt lose any teeth.The insurance covered it and fixed my bike!
It was cuz of a pushy salesman selling last years bike(new) and making a deal that wasnt right in anyway,shape or form.Payments were like $75 a mo. including insurance w/$100 down.
Also had a couple buddys that bought XL650's that year,there was some weird recall years later and they both got brand new engines.
But Ive had many buddys get screwed there.And a couple die on their bikes.
