After riding my bikes,freinds bikes,friends of friends bikes I always come to the same conclusion.Must the new thumper engines always be a 250 or 450? With so many new bikes comming out I wish we had as many displacement choices as well.I'm not a racer so getting a bike that fits into a specific catagory is not important.For me a 250 thumper is just not enough and the 450's are to much.I think a new KTM 300MXC or EXC will be my next bike.A bike that has XR400 torque XR600 top end with two stroke snap and easier maintenance and weighs the same as my 02 KX250 sounds pretty good.

There is not a big enough demand for them and there would be no real use for them. People will buy a 450 instead of a 350 to race because they would be too diadvantaged. It is not legal in 125 class.

I read somewhere on this site that fewer than 5% of all bikes sold are used for racing.The two best selling KTM bikes in this country are the EXC200 and the EXC300.These bikes don't really have a special class for racing in the U.S. and yet they sell big time.My guess is that a modern 350 offroad thumper would very popular but that's just my opinion,I could be wrong.

I know just what you mean. I switched to a 250F from a 400, and it's the way to go. BUT....I sometimes could use just a little more 'grunt' out of corners, and definately in the woods. Everyone loves the lighter weight and smoother power delivery of the smaller 4 strokes, yet nearly everyone could use just a little more power.

I guess that's what the aftermarket is for.

Here's my last gripe and then I'll get off it. Wouldn't you just love to be able to buy that same bike in 300cc and maybe only 7 extra pounds?Instead we get a WR250 with Estart.If the 250F is already lacking power in a few areas why would I want a slower, heavier version with soft suspension? Also if a WR450 has the power I'm looking for why does it have to be 20+ pounds heavier than the YZ450?.E starts are great I guess but I would rather have it as an option.I'm not to lazy to kick.I had a KLX300 for a while and it's a great engine trapped in a God awful frame.The KDX 200/220 engines are also great motors trapped in frames with really poor suspension.I used to argue with a gentlman from another page in defense of the KDX because I have owned three but after riding my KX250 for the past year I can really see his side now more clearly.I enjoy buying a few extra goodies for my bikes but it would be nice if I didn't have to spend a lot of cash on major engine upgrades.

Razorback, you can continue to gripe more if you want. I totally agree with you. The wr250 got e-start but what is really needed was 50 more cc's. I think a 300cc engine with the new technology now would be an excellent choice. Almost ideal.

AUS_rider_22 thinks they wouldn't sell because they are not in a race class. I don't know if only 5% of the bikes are used for racing, it seems much higher than that. But if it is around 5%, then I wonder why they are so stuck to race class displacements when just about everyone wants more grunt from their wr250. If you didn't race, how many people would still buy a 250 if a 300 came out with the same chasis and maybe only 3 pounds heavier, which is quite doable? I would go with the 300 no doubt. I also found the klx300 engine to have many advantages, and it didn't really gain any weight over it's older 250 version.

cyclenut51 was looking for more grunt out of corners and I found the klx300 actually had it. I agree that switching from the 400 to the 250 is probably the thing to do for many people. I put quite a bit of time on a 400 as well and it was too big for me. But now the 250's seem so incredibly feeble on low end. I rode a 250 for an entire day and still stalled over choppy root sections and blew most every corner by having no power on tap when I twisted the grip. Maybe I just suck. But I think the KTM forum is actually being quite honest about the new 250's when they say you have to wind the crap out of them to get to the power or you will be majorly disappointed with the engine. Many people there are used to larger 4-strokes and they know what low end is. The yz/wr250 forum has many 125 2-stroke riders, so they rant and rave about how much low end the 250 has. They naturally wind the crap out of a motor because thats what you have to do on a 125, but those of us coming from a 4-stroke background are not used to doing that, or some don't like to do that.

Since the crf250x already leads us to believe it is only a 250, I guess we can hope an offroad version from Kawasaki or Suzuki, (KXF250) could be a 300. The problem is, they already made a 300, the KLX300, and it didn't sell that well. They may not be willing to risk another try with a new up to date thumper 300. I think that KXF250 is going to sell well, it looks like they did a great job. So I believe a 300 version would sell in outrageous numbers. A major problem with riding areas is noise and just about every wr250 is opened up or has a different exhaust, both options are loud. In theory a 300 could be kept a bit quieter and still have nice engine power on tap. So my point is, a bit larger displacement over the 250 could have a much bigger impact by keeping riding areas open as well as providing more oomph.

call BBR. They will make whatever you want.

Why?
1. Profits (too many different and unique bikes in a small market inventory kills profits. They sell more of the EX400 quad that ALL their offroad bikes combined. Sorry, we live in a small segment of the sports world, simple fact)
2. Tooling Costs (They all want to get one or two motors that they can apply to multiple applications. Honda is coming out with the CRF450 quad, same motor, and trying to capture what they had with the 250 two stroke quad of years ago.)
3. Parts Inventory for a unique off-road only machine (back to profits and overhead for the big company, Honda and others do things now after much market research, legal review for lawsuits etc etc....Look how long Honda went to school on the Yamaha F series bikes....they aint stupid they know what will sell and work)
4. Marketing a bike that is "almost" like the one that "that guy" won the last widget championship on. (Old tried and true saying in the motor sports world, win on Sunday, sell on Monday. Why are the KTMs such off road/enduro sales monsters...gosh...look at the GNCCs etc)
5. Actually speed on the trail etc for the average/common Joe that is a member of Thumpertalk and rides (ego check at the door) (I love my Dale, but will be honest with you, I am faster in the tight single track on the boys WRs, doesnt have the power or the weight to wear me out. That depends on where and how you ride....but even the pros in off road and moto etc when say...put on the trails with a 250 vs 400 or 600 or ......they all post faster times on the 250 even though they "Say" collectively they felt it was underpowered etc...and were extremely surprised when they were told on what machine they were fastest on. Summers was a champion on that one...he raced and ruled on an XR600 but get him on tight single track on an XR250 and his times were faster....dont ask me why he raced the 600....marketing?...Sales??? He was and still is an animal...so who knows!


The CRF250 is going to sell like you wouldnt believe. I think we all know that. And honestly, I think Thumper-racing and WB and etc etc are or will be in the next 30 days working on 280 kits and 300kits for the ride....count on it.....so your bike is out there....just have to find it, or build it.

All that from this balding old man and $ 1.50 you can get a large soda at burger King....Im done....I cant wait till the little thing comes out....I am getting one of the CRF250x, wife has already gave me the green light!

Its all good!

HR

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Seems to be a common affliction wereever you go in this world. We always want a little more power. Listen to those guys in NASCAR with 750 HP engines. They could always use a little more power. Same thing with pilots. You fly an airplane with 500 HP and golly, if I just had a little more, this sucker would really climb.

So it is a common problem that I belive is related to the production of testoterone. No cure for it. And in fact, aftermarket stuff only serves to make it worse. Beware! (Well I put that TA pipe on and got a little more grunt, maybe if I do a 200CC upgrade, this sucker would really pull my arms out of socket!)

It would be great if they would just leave the stock bikes at 250 cc then offer optional power up kits consisting of a stroked crank & big bore jug of 325 or 350 cc's. I think the KAWASUKI would make fortune doing this, one kit for 2 companies/bikes. That would make the KAWASUKI a very interesting bike to a lot of people, off roaders & age class riders plus the cheaters , not that anyone would do that.

I am a 38yr old 3rd yr beginner who jumps alot. I race my yz250f with the 250cc class cus I like racing guys my own age instead of kids who dont know what their abilities.my pointum id love a 300-350 yzf lol the 450 is way too much balz 250f is awsome I love it and the only thing id like more is a half step more power. when i was choosing between the 450 and the 250 i figured when i got used to 250 and wanted more power id buy a header (and still prolly will) instead of buying over my head and getting a 450 i made the right choice but IF THEY HAD A YZ325F!!! lol ok so we all agree lets fill up and go ride now lol later Jeff

I also really like the idea of a stock hop up kit option they design the bike to take the bigger piston and extra power so you jsut tell them when you order what you want bolt up and go they give you a lil credit for your jug and parts and were off .. I actually think a 280 would be fine (you dont have to stroke those do you )

My bet will be KTM will introduce a 350 thumper first. As soon as they develope their 250 thumper to be as competitive with the other 250 thumpers. KTM seem to know how to please everyone. (I owned a KTM 300 for 6 years, AWESOME bike, fun factor everywhere)

It does seem more likely that KTM would stray out of the 250cc rut, since they offer more variety in their 2-stroke line. I am surprised they made the 250 since they knew it was lacking power compared to others and it was an offroad bike not an mx bike. KTM always used to have the lightest bikes, but now they are on the heavy side. I think they are going to have to do a little more than just take their 450 chasis and plop in a different engine. I am not saying the KTM's are bad bikes, but I think they are falling behind now since the other comapnies have stepped it up. KTM's sure have a nice clean look to them, thats for sure. I think they are spreading their resources to other things like street bikes, and the 4-stroke dirt bike has not been given as much effort.

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Enduros have a 200cc class and Open class. There is a lot of discussion about banning 250cc 2-strokes in the "Open Class" as they are easier to ride than say a CR500. The KTM300EXC seems like a great bike for open class.

Once the major bike classes names go 4-stroke; ie 250 and 450, it will be easier to market and accept a mid-size bike. 250, 350, 450; seems easy to market if the sales numbers are there. I agree, KTM will be first with a 350-4.

Also, for us older riders who have too much "pork" for a 250, but can't afford to recover from hitting a tree on a 450, the 350 does make sense. I race my age group, so I can ride anything I want. Now if I could only act my age.

I find it interesting that for BOTH the 250 and 450 classes, MX bikes can't be made more powerful by increasing cc's. I wonder how long that will last.

I agree. I fit into the "older" group and I love the e-start, reliability and motor of my DRZ400e but it is TOO HEAVY for tight woods. A CRF250X e-start around 220 lbs sounds nice but it may not have the power characteristics I want (lots of lowend torque to get my slow, fat ass out of trouble). A CRF350X at 220 lbs sounds GREAT! I know the aftermarket will build it but that might be out of my price range. Honda won't make many and will sell all they do produce so there is no incentive to anything else.

Just brought home my new 04 KTM EXC300.I gave it a quick whirl around my 1.25 acre lot.I'm really going to enjoy this bike.Very smooth and powerful without any sign of a hit like an MX250 yet I can already tell it's going to be very fast.My biggest fear was that it would vibrate.I'm very sensitive to that and thankfully it had none that I could feel.Second the steering would stink and that the bike would push like a truck but so far it turns really easy and feels real stable yet very light.The seat height is a little taller than my KX and it will take some getting used to.Since all the new thumpers are red sticker here in CA I didn't see any reason to steer away from two strokes.You can get real good deals on two strokes now days.If anyone is interested I'll post a better ride report tomorrow after me and my bud get back from Elsinore MX park.He just brought home an 04 MXC300.
My EXC was 6400.00 even out the door.His MXC was 6200.00 even out the door.Very good prices I'd say when compared to the new 250/450 thumpers.We would have bought the same bikes at the same place but the dealers get so few bikes that we had to move on them right away.I bought mine at LRSMotoZone in Hesperia and his was at Berts in West Covina.

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I hear ya on the 300 two smokes. Was looking real hard at the Gas Gas 300, but decided to stay with the valve machines (too many in the garage with other reasons)
The new CRF250x will be green sticker (honda target) and from what I have heard so will be the CRF450x in the spring, as well as the CRF450 quad around Christmas.
You are spot on though, you can get some killer deals on two smokes right now....killer!

Great prices for OTD....great prices.

HR