yzf 450 2010 running problem


25 replies to this topic
  • scottwilson

Posted May 14, 2011 - 10:37 AM

#1

Hi there, was wondering if anybody could help with my problem, from cold the bike fires up, all sounds good, after ten seconds the bike just dies, then fire up again and same problem, i took it out for a blast round the car park and it was fine, but as soon as i stop after ten seconds of idle it dies, i will also add that i recently had a crash on the bike and the rear pipe took a whack and pierced through the pipe, after getting back on the bike i did a few more laps and the problem started when i pulled in the pits, i have now put on a yoshi rs4 system and thought this would have fixed the problem as i thought it may be a pressure problem, but the problem still exists!!!

any help would be much appreciated.

many thanks

Scott

  • brentn

Posted May 14, 2011 - 06:05 PM

#2

Only thing I can think of is to check your kill switch and make sure that it's ok, and there are no kinks or exposed wire in the connection.
Secondly the ECU has a feature in which if the bike is tipped, and left tipped (on it's side) the engine will shut off. I can only guess that it's possible that the mechanism for this in the ECU has become possibly stuck in-between states.

Might want to take a look at the ECU and see if it's possible to disassemble it and see if you can figure out how the mechanism works and if it is working properly.

  • RiverReaper

Posted May 15, 2011 - 03:16 PM

#3

Only thing I can think of is to check your kill switch and make sure that it's ok, and there are no kinks or exposed wire in the connection.
Secondly the ECU has a feature in which if the bike is tipped, and left tipped (on it's side) the engine will shut off. I can only guess that it's possible that the mechanism for this in the ECU has become possibly stuck in-between states.

Might want to take a look at the ECU and see if it's possible to disassemble it and see if you can figure out how the mechanism works and if it is working properly.


Do not take the ECU apart you will ruine it. The device used to determine tilt has no moving parts and can't get physically stuck. I believe yamaha makes a diagnostic tool for these systems which may be a good investment. I'm not real familiar with this EFI system but would guess it's some type of mass air flow sensor issue like in a car. If it were malfunctioning your computer may think there is no air therefore delivering no fuel.

  • brentn

Posted May 15, 2011 - 04:20 PM

#4

Do not take the ECU apart you will ruine it. The device used to determine tilt has no moving parts and can't get physically stuck. I believe yamaha makes a diagnostic tool for these systems which may be a good investment. I'm not real familiar with this EFI system but would guess it's some type of mass air flow sensor issue like in a car. If it were malfunctioning your computer may think there is no air therefore delivering no fuel.


Now I'm really curious to know how the tilt system works, if there are no moving parts.
What's the deal? Does it use a sort of liquid level type device or what?

  • RiverReaper

Posted May 15, 2011 - 04:44 PM

#5

I dont know how they work but i've used them for several applications. It's called an accelerometer and they put out different voltages based on their position and whatever computer thy are hooked to interperet it as programmed. It's exactly how an iphone or other smartphones and such sense their position and turn the screen. They are surprisingly cheap. The ones I use are about $80 and i've never had one wear out unless it just gets crushed. It could still be your problem I'm sure they're not foolproof. I was just suggesting an alternative that may be simpler to check.

  • todds924

Posted May 16, 2011 - 12:06 AM

#6

On the FI dirtbikes the lean angle sensor is built in to the ECU. So if you knocked it loose from its factory mounting posistion...thats the only way it would malfunction.
If that was the problem with your bike I doubt it would run at all.
You need the Yamaha FI diagnostic tool to do any testing of FI related components...this is a separate tool from the "Power Tuner"
YU-03282/90890-03182.......Thats the part number...you will also need the Sub wire harness Part# YU-03212/90890-03212....and a 12 volt battery.

Edited by todds924, May 16, 2011 - 12:36 AM.


  • grayracer513

Posted May 16, 2011 - 08:51 AM

#7

I'm reasonably certain the tipover sensor uses a mercury switch, and the CDI is a sealed unit that can't be opened.

There is, however, no mass air flow sensor on the system.

The tuner is available through the TT Store, also:

http://www.thumperta...ad.php?t=942617

  • RiverReaper

Posted May 16, 2011 - 10:07 AM

#8

I'm certain there is not a mercury switch, that would be very unreliable in an offroad application. Plus that is very low tech for such a high tech machine. There may not be a mass air flow sensor but there are sensors that could be malfunctioning. The problem may even be with the generator, maybe it's not putting out enough juice at an idle to run the injection system. I think the diagnostic tool would be your best investment, otherwise you may end up replacing alot of expensive parts that are just fine.

  • grayracer513

Posted May 16, 2011 - 10:21 AM

#9

a mercury switch, ...would be very unreliable in an offroad application.

.Why?

  • RiverReaper

Posted May 16, 2011 - 11:08 AM

#10

Shake a mercury thermometer, the mercury will separate and with a jolt I would think the mercury would make contact where it shouldn't under normal conditions. Mercury switches only work well in application where the normal position is somewhere close to a constant where as in a dirt bike under normal operation position changes greatly.

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  • grayracer513

Posted May 16, 2011 - 11:44 AM

#11

There are also damped mercury switches that have the air space filled with a non-miscible, non- conductive fluid, and the naturally unsteady state of a dirt bike is the reason that the sensor, in whatever form it takes, has a 5 or so second delay on it. It has to "fall over" continuously for longer than a certain period before it will shut off the system.

  • RiverReaper

Posted May 16, 2011 - 11:51 AM

#12

Makes sense, I just figured that with the low cost, and availabibility of an accelerameter combined with absolutely no moving parts it made more sense. The less moving parts the more reliable something always is.

  • grayracer513

Posted May 16, 2011 - 12:43 PM

#13

Well, of course, a mercury switch is an accelerometer of sorts, but in the current state of solid state electronics, you're probably right in that some form of piezoelectric circuit would be a better choice.

Either way, any such sub-component of the ECU would hardly be capable of becoming disengaged in any way that would cause the problem described. There was one person on the site who relocated his ECU to make a steering damper modification without considering that feature, though. That was how he "discovered" it. :smirk:

  • RiverReaper

Posted May 16, 2011 - 12:52 PM

#14

Well, of course, a mercury switch is an accelerometer of sorts, but in the current state of solid state electronics, you're probably right in that some form of piezoelectric circuit would be a better choice.

Either way, any such sub-component of the ECU would hardly be capable of becoming disengaged in any way that would cause the problem described. There was one person on the site who relocated his ECU to make a steering damper modification without considering that feature, though. That was how he "discovered" it. :smirk:


You would think that any modification that you bought for this bike that even remotely looks like you need to move the ECU would tell you not to. After all the people producing these products are experts.

  • todds924

Posted May 16, 2011 - 07:15 PM

#15

all of the FI sportbikes use a tip over sensor of some sort and they are NOT part of the ecu. I took one apart off a gsxr 1000. kinda simpl really.
Just looked like an arm with a weighted ball on the end that swung like a pendulum. If it swings to far it touches the contacts on either side to send a signal to cut power and fuel...I also had the chance to fix a bike that the owner had reinstalled the tip over sensor UPSIDEDOWN! Hmmmmm wonder why it wouldnt run.

And Gray....you are right about some of them being mercury switches.

  • todds924

Posted May 16, 2011 - 07:20 PM

#16

I'm reasonably certain the tipover sensor uses a mercury switch, and the CDI is a sealed unit that can't be opened.

There is, however, no mass air flow sensor on the system.

The tuner is available through the TT Store, also:

http://www.thumperta...ad.php?t=942617

Gray.........that is the Power Tuner....not the FI diagnostic tool....
They are 2 different tools.

  • brentn

Posted May 16, 2011 - 08:22 PM

#17

The tuner will pull codes btw, so essentially it is an FI diagnostic tool of sorts.

Todds, do you know of a diagnostic tool other than the tuner? Curious to know what's out there. thx.

  • scottwilson

Posted May 17, 2011 - 06:42 AM

#18

Guys,

Firstly thank you for all yoru help on this, been to my local yamaha dealer and plugged it in, error codes were coming up for the bike being banked over, looked down the number board and guess what? from the crash i had snapped of my cdi unit so it was hanging down, hence thinking it was banked over, ordered new bracket to hold the cdi so this should fix it! many thanks to everyone again.

Scott

  • grayracer513

Posted May 17, 2011 - 08:31 AM

#19

Gray.........that is the Power Tuner....not the FI diagnostic tool....
They are 2 different tools.

I was under the impression the tuner was capable of pulling codes...No?

  • RiverReaper

Posted May 17, 2011 - 09:53 AM

#20

Will the tuner do all that the FI diagnostic tool will? Just wondering, want to know if I need them both or just the tuner. If I need the diagnostic tool I'm gonna wait and see if they start coming out with ones that'll do more than one bike and/or are updateable like a scnner for a car. Or maybe they already do, does anyone know?





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