'00 CLUTCH MOD



14 replies to this topic
  • F-Pilot

Posted May 04, 2001 - 09:27 PM

#1

Anyone else get their parts in?
I just instaled the 3 parts from the '01 (seat plate, spring and friction plate) and am having problem with disengagement now.
I am sure the parts are installed correctly but I had to remove my Raptor lever and go back to the stock setup and had to take all the freeplay and more out of the clutch to get it to disengage at the right spot. With any freeplay or even zero freeplay the bike would try and creep when in gear. It also has made a couple of strange popping noises when I pull in the lever, not every time just 2 or 3 times.
The acid test will be tomorrow, am going to the track to test it.
I pray it doesn't damage anything!!!!!!

  • YZ426_Kicks

Posted May 05, 2001 - 03:10 AM

#2

Hey F-Pilot!

Please do not take this as an insult, but did you put the clutch boss spring in the correct way???

This spring is the bell type and it has a specific way. If you look at it, the narrow side goes towards the inner hub and the wide side towards the pressure plate. The wide side is marked ( etched ) " OUT SIDE ". If you installed it incorrectly, that may be your problem.

If you were unaware of this, please open up your clutch and check!

In about 2 hours, I will have my clutch together and will ride-New Hinson, clutch/fiber plates, etc. Will let you know!

Hope this helps! :)

By the way, even my dealership told me to install it the wrong way! I thank the LORD I took a closer inspection and notice the etched writing on the spring! I love HIM! :D

Take Care!

God Bless!

Randy
YZ426 Kicks

  • dirtdad

Posted May 05, 2001 - 03:43 AM

#3

F-pilot, Another thought on this mod. This may be a dumb question also, but did you remove one of the regular fibers when you installed the three new parts? If you did not, this may explain why the bike wants to creep and is giving you adjustment problems. Just a thought. I have mine all back together with the new parts and a Hinson basket and inner hub. No problems and smooth as butter. Hope this helps.

------------------
00 YZ426F
01 TT-R125L (my son's)
91 CR125
83 YZ490
74 Hodaka Super Combat(gone but not forgotten!)

[This message has been edited by dirtdad (edited 05-05-2001).]

  • holeshot

Posted May 05, 2001 - 05:21 AM

#4

DirtDad:

Are you still using the '00 pushrods?

------------------
Holeshot's Page

  • dirtdad

Posted May 05, 2001 - 05:32 AM

#5

I currently have the original pushrods in, but I did order and just received pushrod 2 (the longer of the two) which was an updated part #. I also have the 11/32 ball that the update calls for also. I called Yamaha customer service about these parts. What they do is increase oiling to the clutch. The ball keeps pushrod 2 (long) from seating against the inside end of pushrod 1 (the short piece that looks like a tophat) allowing more oil to flow through. Made sense to me once I looked at it! I haven't put these parts in yet as I didn't want to dump the fresh oil I put in just prior to receiving these parts. I'll do it during my next oil change. They're pretty easy to change out. Just take the pressure plate off and pull out the pushrods and replace the old pushrod and add the ball in. The 01 micro-fiche shows how they go. http://www.powerspor...=211660&ID=4284


------------------
00 YZ426F
01 TT-R125L (my son's)
91 CR125
83 YZ490
74 Hodaka Super Combat(gone but not forgotten!)

  • holeshot

Posted May 05, 2001 - 07:00 AM

#6

Dirt Dad:

I modified pushrod #1 (the one that looks like a top hat) so that it would provide more oil to the plates, but felt it was supplying too much oil, so I ordered a new '00 part and put the modified one on the shelf. I don't see how the ball helps provide more oil to the plates, because the oil flows past the first point of resistance (the spiral grooves at the other end of the long pushrod) then down a hollow tube around the push rod shaft, and exits the last point of resistance (the spiral grooves at the short "tophat" pushrod). The spiral grooves cut into the long pushrod at the end where the ball is located seem to be there just to provide some lubrication in that area, because there is no hole or passageway for oil to flow past the ball and into the plates from the "tophat". The clutch on my '00 seems to be working decently lately, (I won't try and guess why) so I think it's best to "let a sleeping dog lie", but I'm still interested in this issue, just in case it decides to act up again.

F-pilot:

I had the same problem with disengagement when I replaced the entire clutch last year - maybe it's because the plates were soaked in oil and it increased the stack height slightly and the extra oil caused drag. A couple of quick laps (quick for me, anyway) and things returned to normal.

  • dirtdad

Posted May 05, 2001 - 07:22 AM

#7

holeshot, what you say makes sense. I had just figured that the ball allowed oil to flow around the end of the longer pushrod better(?). After I wrote my last reply I got a wild hair and went out to the garage and installed the new pushrod and ball. I haven't ridden the bike yet to see if there is a discernable difference. One thing that I did notice is that because of using the 01 pushrod which is actually shorter than the 00 piece (my guess to make up for the addition of the ball) you add play at the lever. Quite a bit actually. The combination of the new pushrod and ball is still a little shorter than the 00 pushrod! I had to use up most of the adjustment in the cable. This is most likely due to the difference in the arm of the push lever. The 00 is actually longer than the 01 piece. Going to the shorter 01 lever may add some clutch pull resistance so I may just put the 00 pushrod back in. I too noticed the slight drag after installing all new parts. At first I thought that something was out of adjustment because pushing the bike in gear with the clutch engaged I felt more drag than I thought I should. After the first warm-up and ride though, it diminished to where I thought it should. This whole evolution has been interesting to say the least!

------------------
00 YZ426F
01 TT-R125L (my son's)
91 CR125
83 YZ490
74 Hodaka Super Combat(gone but not forgotten!)

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  • F-Pilot

Posted May 05, 2001 - 03:59 PM

#8

Kicks, yes its in the right way, I saw the "outside" stamped on it. Dealer told me wrong way too.

dad , yes, I removed one of the fiber plates.

The test was shortened due to blowing out my knee today but for the few laps it worked fine but I never got to mess with the freeplay.
The grabbyness(?) is gone!

Thanks for the input.

  • YZ426_Kicks

Posted May 05, 2001 - 05:47 PM

#9

Hey F-Pilot,
Hey Dirtdad,
Hey Holeshot,

Please help me here, because I am experiencing the exact same creeping. I could actually watch the chain and bike move. But that isn't even half of it...

After I answered F-Pilot this morning, I went and finished the job on my clutch. I finished locking everything down inside the clutch housing, torquing everything according to the owners manual. Then I added fresh Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic oil.

When I started my bike in neutral, I pulled the clutch lever in and let the oil soak the plates for about 2-3 minutes. Then I shifted into 1st gear.

Bang! With the clutch still pulled in, the bike immediately stalled. I tried again. Same thing. Okay, I said-clutch cable. So I adjusted, and adjusted, and adjusted.

Finally, with the lower adjustment all the way out so that the two locking nuts are all the way to the outside ( farthest point from the push rod ) and with the fine adjustment wheel opened so that more than 3/4 of the threaded slide exposed, I could sit in neutral and idle all day. When I shifted into 1st gear, I could sit all day long. The clutch cable is stiff all the way through the throw.

Off I went. Man-o-Man-o-Man! What a big difference!

No more Machine Guns :)
No more chatter :D
Shifts smooth :D
No more grabbiness :D
No more harsh engagements :D

I can get into 1st with ease, 2nd, 3rd, etc.

Neutral is still very hard to find, but I think that's me.

I was happy. So I went to the shed and cleaned up. I was so excited I wanted to take a spin around the yard again. I backed the bike out and fired her up. Now I noticed that the engagement was a little harder, and the neutral/disengaged creep was present. I could see the bike walking. What's up with this??? I can't take the cable adjustment out anymore! And with the two positions the cable is currently in, it just doesn't seem right.

I will be replacing the old cable with the new one tomorrow. Maybe the old stretched, I dunno??? :D

What do you do?

The spring boss is installed right.
The correct number of fiber/metal plates.
Pressure plate torqued correctly.

What more can I do???

Your help would be most appreciated! :D

God Bless!

Randy
YZ426 Kicks!

I cannot accept this "creep" as normal.

  • dirtdad

Posted May 05, 2001 - 05:57 PM

#10

Randy, Did you install an 01 pushrod along with the other parts? If so, read my last reply. I noticed the same thing after installing the 01 pushrod and 11/32 ball. Combined they're still shorter than the 00 pushrod and this difference in length has to be compensated at the cable/lever. The 01 has a shorter arm on the push lever and I'm guessing makes up for this on the 01. If this doesn't apply to your situation, maybe someone else has a suggestion/thought on a solution or explanation.

------------------
00 YZ426F
01 TT-R125L (my son's)
91 CR125
83 YZ490
74 Hodaka Super Combat(gone but not forgotten!)

[This message has been edited by dirtdad (edited 05-05-2001).]

  • YZ426_Kicks

Posted May 06, 2001 - 02:48 AM

#11

Originally posted by dirtdad:
Randy, Did you install an 01 pushrod along with the other parts? If so, read my last reply. I noticed the same thing after installing the 01 pushrod and 11/32 ball. Combined they're still shorter than the 00 pushrod and this difference in length has to be compensated at the cable/lever. The 01 has a shorter arm on the push lever and I'm guessing makes up for this on the 01. If this doesn't apply to your situation, maybe someone else has a suggestion/thought on a solution or explanation.


Hey Dirtdad!

Thanks for trying to help me!

I have all '00 pushrod parts. I didn't order the '01 because I wanted to see what would happen.

I'm gonna try the new cable later this morning.

It appears that although the throw from the clutch handle remains constant, the length of cable moved decreases with each shift. That makes no sense...or does it?

What exactly happens when you stretch a clutch cable?

I know I installed everything correctly.

Guess I'll find out later. I just don't want to be in the woods later today and have problems.

Take care!

Thanks again, and God Bless!

Randy
YZ426 Kicks

  • F-Pilot

Posted May 06, 2001 - 06:21 PM

#12

Keep me posted on the fix, I will not be able to test mine for awhile but am thinking I need to replace all the pushrod and lever parts also.
I don't think it's a good idea to run the clutch with preload on it!

  • dirtdad

Posted May 07, 2001 - 02:09 AM

#13

F-pilot, I ended up re-installing the original 00 pushrod. I did not like giving up all the adjustability in the cable. So, the only updated parts I currently have in the bike are the new seat plate, hub spring and updated bottom friction plate. I did widen the grooves slightly on the long pushrod for better oil flow. I've cross-referenced all the clutch parts between the 00 and 01 and the only ones that are different (besides the 3 new parts) are pushrod 2, the added 11/32 ball, and the push lever. Even the cables are the same.
I don't think the addition of these three parts are an advantage because of the shorter throw on the lever adding clutch pull resistance. I can't really explain Randy's situation of suddenly experiencing all that slop in the cable with the original pushrods. Adjustment on mine was normal after re-installing the original pushrod.
The three new parts at the bottom of the stack don't really change clutch geometry at all. The friction plate is actually the same thickness as the originals. Theonly difference is it's inner diameter is widened to accomodate the seat plate and spring to sit inside of it. NOTHING else changes from there to the lever. Of course, we don't have a manual for a 2001. I'm only going by the illustration in the fiche. Maybe someone with an 01 could check the clutch section and let us know if there are any special considerations concerning these three new parts at the bottom of the clutch pack!?

[This message has been edited by dirtdad (edited 05-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by dirtdad (edited 05-07-2001).]

  • YZ426_Kicks

Posted May 07, 2001 - 03:14 AM

#14

Hey Guys!

My bike appears to be fixed!

Yesterday, I started her up and had the same conditions as outlined in the above post. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it to work.

I proceeded to change out the clutch cable, and with much tinkering, I finally got the cable tuned.

I still had a little rough engagement into first, but neutral through 5 were all there. I decided to go for a ride. 3 hours later I noticed that the rough engagement into 1st disappeared and the bike shifts very smoothly. No grabbiness, no racheting, no machine guns, nothing....

I will wait for a few more rides before I call this success, but it looks as though my clutch woes are hopefully a thing of the past.

Could it be that the new parts needed time to seat and really get a good oil soaking???

I guess the cable was a little stretched too.

I will say that this has been a very humbling experience, and I have learned so much about this bike.

What have y'all experienced the first couple of rides after doing a clutch job?

God Bless!

Randy
YZ426 Kicks

[This message has been edited by YZ426 Kicks (edited 05-07-2001).]

  • dirtdad

Posted May 07, 2001 - 03:27 AM

#15

Randy, glad to hear you've got the bike running properly again. Keep us posted.





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