May come back to a thumper for woods use from a long 2 stroke hiatus.


25 replies to this topic
  • RiderX

Posted April 24, 2011 - 04:04 PM

#1

So I went to KTM 2 strokes about 4 or 5 years ago from a YZ250F. I'm considering coming back to the darkside, or back from the darkside; depends on your opinion of which is the darkside, LOL. I'm looking at an 08 YZ450F already set up for woods. It has a Scotts stabilizer, a Revlock Dynaring, and all the guards. I'll need to add a LHRB and possibly get the suspension revalved. My only reservation about this bike is no E start. I don't want a WR because the YZF is already gonna be a pig compared to a 2 stroke. Are these things a chore to start when laid down hot? Any issues with these bikes I should be concerned about?

I hope I don't miss my 2 stroke. Have any of you made this switch and can share your experience?

Thanks!!
:thumbsup:

  • 080

Posted April 24, 2011 - 06:03 PM

#2

Wish I could tell ya, you won't regret it but you might. Will you miss the 2strk (yes you will). The starting is always going to be easier on the 2 especially if your used to the button. Short of that the yz is not extremely hard to start. Most the time its a 1-2 kick no brainer even when it falls on its side, no biggy. Pop stall it and it becomes more of a chore but after a few it will fire. The only time its a real pain compared to the 2 is when your on a hill or a situation when its near impossible to get to the kicker.

  • step655

Posted April 24, 2011 - 06:23 PM

#3

i have a 2008 ktm 250xc and a 2009 ktm 300xcw(e)
my 2006 yz 450f is a great woods bike and starts very easy with the following mods

9 ounce fly wheel
rekluse z start pro
and 18 inch rear tire
13/52 gearing

hope this helps you

  • RiderX

Posted April 24, 2011 - 06:25 PM

#4

i have a 2008 ktm 250xc and a 2009 ktm 300xcw(e)
my 2006 yz 450f is a great woods bike and starts very easy with the following mods

9 ounce fly wheel
rekluse z start pro
and 18 inch rear tire
13/52 gearing

hope this helps you


So out of the three bikes which one do you like the best? I'm considering holding out for an 09 400 xcw for sale locally. It's more expensive than the YZF and is bone stock.

  • brentn

Posted April 24, 2011 - 06:39 PM

#5

Yep, I really do miss starting on the two stroke, it was much easier. People of course are going to say things like how their 4 stroke starts one kick every time bla bla bla, but in reality it doesn't when your woods riding :thumbsup:
Finding TDC and getting the right kick going is just a couple things extra you have to do when you're already exhausted after a rough ride in which you stalled the bike.

Other than that, my 4 stroke is everything more than my yz250 was.

  • blueberg17

Posted April 24, 2011 - 06:52 PM

#6

I recently picked a '08 yz450f myself about 2 months ago. I also kept my KTM 250sx(2t) just incase I didn't like the 4t. Starting isn't really an issue for me. I ride mainly woods, occasionally the sand dunes, and I have compared my bikes back to back. IMO...

Woods: My first impression on the 450f was great, I loved it and I almost didn't look back! It has great bottom-end and plenty of power to pull up the front wheel in just about every gear. Although, only being 5lbs heavier than my 250sx, the yz felt top heavy and combersome in the tight sections. What I like about my sx in the wood is that it is lighter and feels like a mountian bike with a rocket strapped to it. I can manuver it and light it up when I need to.

Dunes: When it comes to hill climes and deep sand, the yz450f is cheating compared to the 250sx! Just point and shoot. I had to work more on my 2t and had to keep its necked ringed all the time. The yz was a cadillac at the dunes, I was passin up my buddy on his CR500!

Plain and simple, both yz & sx put a smile on my face and it's gonna be hard to just pick one.:thumbsup:

  • KJK_JR

Posted April 24, 2011 - 06:55 PM

#7

no problem starting my 09 after trail riding falls. Its usually 1-3 kicks everytime unless its a nasty crash that sends the bike flippen.

  • step655

Posted April 24, 2011 - 07:20 PM

#8

in the tight tech. stuff i like my 250xc
the wide open corse's i like my 300 or 450

my 300 will run right with those 450's all day

the 18 inch rear took away alot of the top heavy feeling on my 450
good luck hopefully this helped

  • shrubitup

Posted April 24, 2011 - 07:53 PM

#9

rode YZ250s for years. Nice bikes but I just tired of the smoke, smell, and spooge. That and the compression braking on the four stroke 250Fs I kept riding in the woods (friends bikes). So I went deep dark and got a YZ250F but kept my smoker version for a while. Weren't long and it went up for sale. Yes, the 250F has less power but it has it in all the right places for woods work IMO.

I've never really ridden a 450F except at the dunes where I noticed I could carve/shred a dune bowl better on my 250F due to its weight.

I like the better fuel mileage and by NO means at all is the thumper "harder" to maintain. :thumbsup:

If you have the DynaRing already installed you shouldn't worry about re-starting that four stroke because you won't be stalling much.

  • RiderX

Posted April 24, 2011 - 07:58 PM

#10

rode YZ250s for years. Nice bikes but I just tired of the smoke, smell, and spooge. That and the compression braking on the four stroke 250Fs I kept riding in the woods (friends bikes). So I went deep dark and got a YZ250F but kept my smoker version for a while. Weren't long and it went up for sale. Yes, the 250F has less power but it has it in all the right places for woods work IMO.

I've never really ridden a 450F except at the dunes where I noticed I could carve/shred a dune bowl better on my 250F due to its weight.

I like the better fuel mileage and by NO means at all is the thumper "harder" to maintain. :thumbsup:

If you have the DynaRing already installed you shouldn't worry about re-starting that four stroke because you won't be stalling much.



I can't take your post seriously after reading your signature.

j/k :thumbsup:

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  • YamahaDoc

Posted April 24, 2011 - 09:47 PM

#11

I made the swich! Im a long time YZ250 rider and loved it... but lets just say my 4strk is way more fun for me I dont know what it is I just like the difference in power, Its kind of nice to not HAVE to ride the piss out of it everyday! It really depends on the trails you ride... If they are tight and tech-> stick with the 2smoker, But if they are even third gear trails I'd go with a 4 any day! Even my 426 (wayyyy heavier and "Less-Flick-Able") then the 08's feels fine on trails I get nuts on that thing and will never look back!

Also like mentioned above... IN THE DUNES!... Oh dont even get me started! :thumbsup:

Id choose this thing over my old CR500, YZ250, YZ125, or any another 2 Smoker you'd offer!

Posted Image

  • RiderX

Posted April 25, 2011 - 08:50 AM

#12

What's the mileage like on these for a mix of tight woods?

  • shrubitup

Posted April 25, 2011 - 11:18 AM

#13

What's the mileage like on these for a mix of tight woods?

Got a 2.1 gallon tank on my 250F. 80 miles easy but that's alot of single track in a day. Hard to get that many tight ST miles since speed is slow. Big bore is a different story fuel consumption wise.

  • schrode

Posted April 25, 2011 - 11:25 AM

#14

i have a 2008 ktm 250xc and a 2009 ktm 300xcw(e)
my 2006 yz 450f is a great woods bike and starts very easy with the following mods

9 ounce fly wheel
rekluse z start pro
and 18 inch rear tire
13/52 gearing

hope this helps you



how do any of these mods affect the ease of starting? ease of riding i can see. but in my experience, ease of starting has more to do with how well tuned the bike is.

can you explain?

  • shrubitup

Posted April 25, 2011 - 11:32 AM

#15

how do any of these mods affect the ease of starting? ease of riding i can see. but in my experience, ease of starting has more to do with how well tuned the bike is.

can you explain?

^FWW helps to keep crank rotatation mass moving thereby assisting your kickstart. Rekluse prevents the stall. The rest is riding preference but shouldn't improve starting per se.

But I'm not him either. :thumbsup:

  • schrode

Posted April 25, 2011 - 01:02 PM

#16

^FWW helps to keep crank rotatation mass moving thereby assisting your kickstart. Rekluse prevents the stall. The rest is riding preference but shouldn't improve starting per se.

But I'm not him either. :thumbsup:



sure the mass of the fww helps keep it moving but it also offers more weight to get moving so requires more effort to get it turning up to fire-up speed. it kind of seems like a wash to me.

yes the rekluse helps prevent stalling but is not foolproof in that respect and not really what i was asking about. i mean not stalling makes hot re-starts less frequent but i'm concerned with the mods and how they aid the re-start, when necessary.

i'm not trying to be a douche about this, i just don't really follow how they aid the hot re-start.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 25, 2011 - 03:12 PM

#17

Hot starting is best aided by two things:
  • A properly jetted carb
  • A familiarity with your bike and an understanding of what it needs when starting hot.

On the first point, the important part is the pilot circuit. A lot of people run way too big a pilot so as to be able to snap the throttle open like a goon instead of learning to roll it, or to make every trace of decel backfire go away. The pilot jet helps throttle response, but if you have a real problem with that, the pilot is not the way to fix it. Likewise, assuming your exhaust is sealed of any significant air leaks, a little decel popping sometimes is an indication that you're jetted about right at idle. Interestingly, a pilot that's just a bit lean will help prevent stalling when the throttle is closed suddenly.

On the second, you just need some time to understand when the bike is likely to respond to the hot start lever, when it will start better if the throttle is cracked open a little rather than fully closed, how to clear a flood condition, and when it will start more easily without the hot start. Seat time, understanding engines, and being observant will do that. It's rare that I can't get mine moving again after 4 kicks. The main thing is not to make it more work than it is.

  • shrubitup

Posted April 25, 2011 - 06:44 PM

#18

sure the mass of the fww helps keep it moving but it also offers more weight to get moving so requires more effort to get it turning up to fire-up speed. it kind of seems like a wash to me.

yes the rekluse helps prevent stalling but is not foolproof in that respect and not really what i was asking about. i mean not stalling makes hot re-starts less frequent but i'm concerned with the mods and how they aid the re-start, when necessary.

i'm not trying to be a douche about this, i just don't really follow how they aid the hot re-start.

You ain't no douche. Good questions.

  • sledtrash

Posted April 26, 2011 - 04:04 PM

#19

The nice thing on a 08 is that fact that it has a hot stop and a auto decompression so they take a lot less "know how to start up compared to old 250f's and 426's. You don't ever have to kick it over very hard. If I had laid mine over and it sat there for a moment, I don't think that I've had to kick it more than 10 times (that is putting it to the extreme) usually pulling the hot start lever and kicking it over 2-4 kicks it fires up. The thing to remember is that the bike has a accelerator pump and "you are not to touch the throttle till the bike fires!!" as this will flood it out. Coming from my Cr250 to the four stroke I was always "pinning" the throttle wide open to counter act the bike being hot. I had some major flooding in the beginning. Just remember to not move the throttle so as to not pump more gas to the cylinder.

Cold starting I've ran a couple of races where it was snowing at the start of the race. :thumbsup: usually I pump the throttle like 5 times and with the choke on it will start up pretty easily down to 15 degree's then I had to lay it on it's side to get a little extra into the cylinder.

Great bikes they work great in the woods mine actually has never been on a track so... it does all right :thumbsup:

  • FLFX4

Posted April 26, 2011 - 04:41 PM

#20

Fuel mileage ultimately depends on how you ride your 450. I have an IMS 3.1 on my 08 and only burn half of that in a sugar sand, wooped out, palmetto infested, hour and a half florida hare scrambles race. I race B open and run top 5, but I lug the bike more and use momentum to keep my speed up rather than flooring it then stomping on the brakes between corners haha





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