06 WR450F Wouldn't E-Start or Kickstart today!


21 replies to this topic
  • paydirt1

Posted April 17, 2011 - 08:33 PM

#1

06 WR450F with Baja Designs Dual Sport Kit

Could this be a battery or electrical issue?

Got to the trail, bike started after a few kicks, battery was low (it dies quick even after tender jr.). Rode for 1/2 mile and bike cut out and popped at mid-high rpm (new issue). Stopped to gather the group after noticing this new issue (bike has always run great), then bike wouldn't start with a kick nor e-start.

Towed me back to the truck. I watched the rest of the group go have fun while I tried to diagnose.

Verified: Key on, switch on, new fuel, fuel on, fuel to carb, gas tank vented, spark plug sparking and good, battery connections good.

So I kicked, kicked and more kicking with no luck.

Got home, immediately put the battery on Battery Tender Jr. for about 5 minutes, bike e-started right up! Rode up and down the street was pretty good except for it seemed to still have the mid-high cutting out.

I rode the same trail (about 50 miles) 2 weeks ago and all was good.

What happened today? And what's with the new mid-high rpm cut and pop?

  • miweber929

Posted April 18, 2011 - 04:35 AM

#2

Bad battery. Your bike needs a freshly charged battery to run the CDI correctly or it needs to be replaced with a capacitor. Do some searching, been talked about MANY times on here.

Mike

Edited by miweber929, April 18, 2011 - 10:18 AM.


  • paydirt1

Posted April 18, 2011 - 05:57 AM

#3

Thanks Mike. I searched for over an hour, I guess with the wrong keywords. :thumbsup:
I was leaning toward the battery but, I only found posts saying the battery isn't necessary because the ignition is on a separate circuit and will run without a battery...

  • miweber929

Posted April 18, 2011 - 10:18 AM

#4

Thanks Mike. I searched for over an hour, I guess with the wrong keywords. :thumbsup:
I was leaning toward the battery but, I only found posts saying the battery isn't necessary because the ignition is on a separate circuit and will run without a battery...


It 'may" run without a battery but needs the 12 volts to work correctly. I am 95% sure this will fix it.

Mike

  • Baja Designs

Posted April 18, 2011 - 04:17 PM

#5

06 WR450F with Baja Designs Dual Sport Kit

Could this be a battery or electrical issue?

Got to the trail, bike started after a few kicks, battery was low (it dies quick even after tender jr.). Rode for 1/2 mile and bike cut out and popped at mid-high rpm (new issue). Stopped to gather the group after noticing this new issue (bike has always run great), then bike wouldn't start with a kick nor e-start.

Towed me back to the truck. I watched the rest of the group go have fun while I tried to diagnose.

Verified: Key on, switch on, new fuel, fuel on, fuel to carb, gas tank vented, spark plug sparking and good, battery connections good.

So I kicked, kicked and more kicking with no luck.

Got home, immediately put the battery on Battery Tender Jr. for about 5 minutes, bike e-started right up! Rode up and down the street was pretty good except for it seemed to still have the mid-high cutting out.

I rode the same trail (about 50 miles) 2 weeks ago and all was good.

What happened today? And what's with the new mid-high rpm cut and pop?


Hey Danny everyones right about the battery issue being it needed to be charged for E-start as well as the CDI needing DC power. But what has me stumbled is that is cut out at mid-high rpm range and pops. I've never heard of this happening with the Baja Designs kit on the WR450F

  • miweber929

Posted April 19, 2011 - 04:20 AM

#6

The BD kit and mid range pop are not related, but the popping and battery are.

Mike

  • MrBlahh

Posted April 19, 2011 - 04:25 AM

#7

check your valves, if your clearance is too low it'll be a nightmare to start once it's hot, and the mid-high rpm pop is another symptom

out of curiosity did you try bump starting it at the trail?

  • paydirt1

Posted April 19, 2011 - 06:22 AM

#8

Thanks for the replies.

The only reason why I asked about the BD was because the bike would not start at all by kicking it. So I didn't know if something in the BD kit, made it necessary to have a semi-charged battery to even kickstart.

The big issue was why couldn't I get it started by kicking it out there. It usually starts in at least 5 kicks no matter what the conditions (hot, cold). Bad/Dead battery or not, the bike should have started.

Yesterday in the garage I disconnected the battery completely, and the bike kickstarted no problem. It e-started no problem too. Double checked the kill switches, those are working fine too.

At this point I will check the valves for re-assurance. It ran perfect the previous ride, but I'm guessing the valves wouldn't go from great running to not running. I'll definitely give them a look at.

So at this point it starts as normal again, I need to ride it in the dirt to see if the cutting/popping is still there. I will bring a new battery with me, swap if the popping persists. I'll share an update in a week or so.

Thanks again for your help. I wish the NO-start wasn't still a mystery but hopefully that never happens again.

  • MrBlahh

Posted April 19, 2011 - 06:24 AM

#9

that's pretty much exactly what valves do when they go, runs fine one day, next ride boom very hard or impossible hot start, all it takes is one valve getting too tight

so did you try bump starting it? When valves go, bumpstarting usually still works

  • paydirt1

Posted April 19, 2011 - 06:57 AM

#10

that's pretty much exactly what valves do when they go, runs fine one day, next ride boom very hard or impossible hot start, all it takes is one valve getting too tight

so did you try bump starting it? When valves go, bumpstarting usually still works


I will surely check the valves. No I didn't bumpstart out there, actually, I don't know why I didn't try. It could have made my tow back a lot shorter. :thumbsup:

However, for over an hour I tried starting the bike with no luck, so definitely something else was going on, even if the valves got tight. I can kick or start fine right now...:thumbsup:

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  • MrBlahh

Posted April 19, 2011 - 06:58 AM

#11

that's exactly the symptoms of a tight valve, you would have to get the head cold again for them to loosen up, any warmth is tight, when was the last time you checked them?

only other thing that's common with hot start problems is a stator/coil going out, they like to work cold and fail hot

  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted April 19, 2011 - 07:06 AM

#12

Hey Danny everyones right about the battery issue being it needed to be charged for E-start as well as the CDI needing DC power. But what has me stumbled is that is cut out at mid-high rpm range and pops. I've never heard of this happening with the Baja Designs kit on the WR450F


Is the battery not charging in the bike? This is the real problem you should be looking at. The bike will charge the battery faster than the battery tender. If the battery tender charges it, then start looking at the bike. If the bike isn't generating electrical power the way it should, you will have all kinds of problems.

Regarding needing the battery to run the cdi, the charging circuit on the bike will put out a healthy 14.4 volts, which will run the bike, even with a completely shot battery. You should be able to start the bike without the battery.

So, if the battery tests good and holds a charge, start looking at the stator.

A very weak battery and a bad stator will cause the bike to stumble and sputter at mid rpm and up.

This happened to me about a year ago.

  • MrBlahh

Posted April 19, 2011 - 07:12 AM

#13

electrical is the last thing to check, your wr has 2 separate coil outputs from the stator, an AC side that goes to the ignition/spark and a DC side that's regulated and goes towards the battery and all the other circuits

they are not connected, he had spark when it would not start, and it's by far the hardest thing to troubleshoot, check valves first

  • paydirt1

Posted April 19, 2011 - 07:28 AM

#14

when was the last time you checked them?



I've never checked them. Bought the bike from a guy last spring, bike has been awesome and here we are. Definitely will do a proper inspection and any necessary adjustments.


Is the battery not charging in the bike?


If the battery has 12 volts standing and 13.6 volts running that means its charging right? If I turn the high beam on, it drops to 12.6 volts. I don't think it's holding a charge properly though. The reason I say that is last time I rode the bike, the odometer reset during the ride.

With that said, I'm still confused why the battery is still the popular culprit. My buddy has a WR who's had the same dead battery since 2008. He kickstarts and rides just as if he never had e-start. No issues.

If MEGA is right about the valves, he wins the prize. lol

  • gsa102

Posted April 19, 2011 - 08:19 AM

#15

Check the valves to be sure, its not that hard.

A shorted battery will drain power away while riding. Your buddy's "bad" battery may just be too weak to run the starter, but still have enough voltage to allow the CDI to work properly.

The WR 450 supposedly will not run with a dead battery, but will with the battery disconnected. I suspect the dead battery keeps the voltage too low for the CDI to work, but you would have full voltage to the CDI with the battery disconnected.

My boy's TTR 50 will sputter and cut out when the battery is going dead, and eventually quit running. It will not start or run with a dead battery, even push starting.

  • miweber929

Posted April 19, 2011 - 10:59 AM

#16

Check the valves to be sure, its not that hard.

A shorted battery will drain power away while riding. Your buddy's "bad" battery may just be too weak to run the starter, but still have enough voltage to allow the CDI to work properly.

The WR 450 supposedly will not run with a dead battery, but will with the battery disconnected. I suspect the dead battery keeps the voltage too low for the CDI to work, but you would have full voltage to the CDI with the battery disconnected.

My boy's TTR 50 will sputter and cut out when the battery is going dead, and eventually quit running. It will not start or run with a dead battery, even push starting.


+1 Dead battery and bad battery are 2 different things. My 04 will not run without the battery in it, I can kick all day long. Thow a battery and all is better.

Mega, one thing to rermember is the BD kit has a mod to the stator done which I believe does some changes to the charging system and may cause it to not run without a battery.

I have not done the mod, nor do I know what the md for sure entails but I belive it has something to do with converting it from DC to AC or vie versa.

Mike

  • MrBlahh

Posted April 19, 2011 - 11:00 AM

#17

he had spark, he tested that when it would not start

  • paydirt1

Posted April 19, 2011 - 11:23 AM

#18

I can verify that is 06 WR currently will start and rev without a battery, tried it yesterday. However, I didn't ride it to know if it runs properly (CGI juiced enough etc.).

I'm going to experiment all these options in the desert (or neighborhood) after I check the valves tonight.

1 - Ride as is (assuming valves are okay)
2 - Ride with battery removed
3 - Ride with New Battery

I appreciate everyone's input. :thumbsup:

  • miweber929

Posted April 19, 2011 - 03:33 PM

#19

he had spark, he tested that when it would not start

In my experience, spark doesn't always equal run or run correctly. Lots of info on here about the 450's not running right with removed, bad or suspect batteries. That was were I was going, especially with the 07-ups.

Mike

  • paydirt1

Posted April 19, 2011 - 08:39 PM

#20

I checked the valves
Intake: Outers at 0.10mm (0.10mm–0.15mm), center-intake valve at 0.13mm
Exhaust: Both at 0.18mm (0.20mm–0.25mm)

Exhaust is on the tight side. I have no idea if 0.02mm is tight enough to cause any issues.




 
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