Cam cover bolts, torque wrench?


37 replies to this topic
  • SledParty

Posted April 13, 2011 - 08:49 AM

#1

Hey guys, doing a valve clearance inspection and likely going to be out of spec so I'm just trying to prepair for the worst. My manual says torque the cam cover bolts down to 17inch pounds when re-assembling. I'm wondering what type of wrench you guys use to do this? I checked a couple local tool suppliers (haven't been to sears yet) and they sell 1/4" drive torque wrenches but they all go from 20-200 inch pounds.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 13, 2011 - 08:59 AM

#2

Nowhere in the manual does it say 17 in/lb. The torque spec given for both the cam saddle caps and the camshaft cover is 7.2 ft/lb, or 86 in/lb.

BTW, I personally use 75 in/lb (6.25 ft/lb) on the saddle caps. 86 seems too high with oiled threads.

  • SledParty

Posted April 13, 2011 - 09:04 AM

#3

You are right I just double checked and it is 7.2 Ft ILB. I'm going off the service manual I downloaded from yamaha... heading to the dealer to buy a paper binded one today I'm sick of scrolling through 600 pages in 10 different languages :-P

  • SledParty

Posted April 13, 2011 - 09:06 AM

#4

Also I called the closest dealer and asked about shims.. He said he can sell me the whole kit (box-o-shims) for $90 or the service department does an "exchange" for my old ones + $5 per shim. Does that seem high?

  • grayracer513

Posted April 13, 2011 - 10:24 AM

#5

Also I called the closest dealer and asked about shims.. He said he can sell me the whole kit (box-o-shims) for $90 or the service department does an "exchange" for my old ones + $5 per shim. Does that seem high?

I'm sure he'd love to sell you a shim kit for that kind of money. I'll bet if you look at the range of sizes in the kit, you find out you need two different kits for $180.

Retail is $6-7 per shim. Check the clearance you have first, then set out the buckets and shims for your engine so that you know exactly which one went where (and don't mix up the buckets). Then look over the shims you already have to see if one from a valve that needs correction will do the job in another spot. You may end up only needing 2 or 3.

Then check a Honda dealer to see if he has the size you want from a CRF450. They're all the same 9.48mm diameter shims. Might be cheaper, and probably sure to have them on hand. :thumbsup:

  • Chazmagnum

Posted April 13, 2011 - 06:34 PM

#6

Not that I will recommend this, but i just snug the valve cover bolts with a t handle. I mean the bolts are shouldered. Meh.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 13, 2011 - 09:50 PM

#7

Not that I will recommend this, but i just snug the valve cover bolts with a t handle. I mean the bolts are shouldered. Meh.

I think the OP is bending the nomenclature here. You're talking about the cam cover, and he's talking about the cam caps.

But I'm with you one the cover bolts. I only use a torque wrench for a few things, and the Allen bolts that hold the cam cover on ain't one of them.

  • SledParty

Posted April 14, 2011 - 08:04 AM

#8

Ya I called some other local dealers yesterday and found Hinshaws Honda in Auburn sells shims for $5 each with no exchange WOO HOO! I got the valve cover off last night and am set at TDC. I noticed that my cams are not exactly the same height on the lobe. The exhaust cam seems slightly higher on the lobe then the intake one. I'm going off how close the little holes drilled in the center of the lobe are from the flush outside surface of the case where the valve cover seal meets the head. I think I'm going to take some pictures today, I'm running up north to buy a work stand so I can center the bike in my garage and on the way back I'm stopping to get a service manual before I go any further.

Lastly I have the swiss army style feeler gauges. I looked around at a couple tool places yesterday for the bent ones but no luck, will those work ok for checking clearances?

Thanks!

  • kawi_wowi

Posted April 14, 2011 - 08:09 AM

#9

ya you DO NOT want to just tighten cam cap bolts!! EVER!!! you will seize your cams. the valve cover is not as important tho but i always recommend the manual torques. and sledparty make sure to get your shims on the loose end of your spec for valve clearnance and just go buy new shims (not the kit) and keep your old ones for a buddy or some other bike. and any feeler gauges will work as long as you have no resistance from other parts and you can get them parrallel to the gap

  • KJK_JR

Posted April 14, 2011 - 08:14 AM

#10

Ya I called some other local dealers yesterday and found Hinshaws Honda in Auburn sells shims for $5 each with no exchange WOO HOO! I got the valve cover off last night and am set at TDC. I noticed that my cams are not exactly the same height on the lobe. The exhaust cam seems slightly higher on the lobe then the intake one. I'm going off how close the little holes drilled in the center of the lobe are from the flush outside surface of the case where the valve cover seal meets the head. I think I'm going to take some pictures today, I'm running up north to buy a work stand so I can center the bike in my garage and on the way back I'm stopping to get a service manual before I go any further.

Lastly I have the swiss army style feeler gauges. I looked around at a couple tool places yesterday for the bent ones but no luck, will those work ok for checking clearances?

Thanks!


When checking your timing the punch marks on the cam should be on the outside rather than inside.
Posted Image

I use the straight valve feelers for the intakes and angled for the exhaust but you should be able to use the straight for the exhaust too its just little harder.

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  • grayracer513

Posted April 14, 2011 - 02:04 PM

#11

I noticed that my cams are not exactly the same height on the lobe. The exhaust cam seems slightly higher on the lobe then the intake one. I'm going off how close the little holes drilled in the center of the lobe are from the flush outside surface of the case where the valve cover seal meets the head.

Never mind that. Take a look at the picture KJR posted. That's how the cams are set up. On the later YZ450's the two lobes will not be symmetrical in their orientation.

And yes, common straight feelers work fine. It helps sometimes to remove the individual gauge blades from the holder, and remember that you want a light drag, not the fattest gauge you can shove under the cam.

  • BBrown626

Posted April 14, 2011 - 03:40 PM

#12

Hey guys, doing a valve clearance inspection ... I'm wondering what type of wrench you guys use to do this? ...


Don't skimp on the torque wrench. Get a good 1/4" drive torque wrench from somebody other than the big box stores or Sears. It doesn't have to be Snap-on, just a good quality, accurate wrench. Money well spent. Those cheap Husky or Craftsman wrenches are not accurate.

  • Chazmagnum

Posted April 14, 2011 - 04:38 PM

#13

ya you DO NOT want to just tighten cam cap bolts!! EVER!!! you will seize your cams. the valve cover is not as important tho but i always recommend the manual torques. and sledparty make sure to get your shims on the loose end of your spec for valve clearnance and just go buy new shims (not the kit) and keep your old ones for a buddy or some other bike. and any feeler gauges will work as long as you have no resistance from other parts and you can get them parrallel to the gap


Sorry guys I missunderstood the post, Ooops.:thumbsup:

  • SledParty

Posted April 14, 2011 - 05:44 PM

#14

Ok I have only checked one intake valve clearance so far and it was 0.05 YIKES! Spec is 0.15 so this is pretty signifigant. I can tell that the valves have NEVER been adjusted on this bike before just by the removal of the upper motor mount. Should I proceed with shimming with this size of a decrease or is it likely I should replace the valves? I just put everything back together and washed the bike and scrubbed everything with the tank off because I noticed a lot of dirt still on the main tube above the head. I didn't want to take any chances of having dirt drop in. I'll report all my clearances once I get them writen down.

  • SledParty

Posted April 14, 2011 - 06:25 PM

#15

ok so first off sorry about the .05 thing it's actaully .005 but I'm sure you vets all knew that!

Here is a pic of my findings. All are reaaaally close but still waaaay off spec.

Posted Image f

The top left intake valve could really be .003 as it was a bit tight with .004, the other two had just a slight drag but .005 would NOT fit So what do you guys think? Shim em or ??? This is my first time ever dealing with valves on a dirt bike.

  • SledParty

Posted April 14, 2011 - 06:37 PM

#16

Oh and DOOH!! I was re-reading the factory service manual and it says to turn the crankshaft bolt "counter-clockwise" when setting to TDC. I dont know why but when I was doing this earlier I was turning it clockwise.. I think it was just natural righty tighty... I did it very slowly though, is it possible I may of damaged anything or am I ok? Maybe a total of 4 complete revolutions since I started last night.

  • KJK_JR

Posted April 14, 2011 - 07:36 PM

#17

Oh and DOOH!! I was re-reading the factory service manual and it says to turn the crankshaft bolt "counter-clockwise" when setting to TDC. I dont know why but when I was doing this earlier I was turning it clockwise.. I think it was just natural righty tighty... I did it very slowly though, is it possible I may of damaged anything or am I ok? Maybe a total of 4 complete revolutions since I started last night.


I 've heard that turning the crank clockwise can cause slack in the cam chain and throw off the timing but I'm not sure that is true. If your timing is still good then no damage will be done.

As for your valve measurements if they really are below the minimum specs then adjust them. Although I do find it hard to believe how far off your exhausts are. Double check that your getting the right measurement. Some times the straight valve feelers make it feel like there tighter.

  • SledParty

Posted April 14, 2011 - 07:43 PM

#18

Here's some pics to make sure I'm on track. I double checked my valve clearances and they are all still the same after rotating the crank a couple times counter clockwise. On the exhaust ones I went a little bit bigger just to make sure they were snug cause I know using the straight feelers can make it feel like they are kinda dragging with the preasure from the bend.

Timing TDC Mark:
Posted Image

Cam Lobes facing out:
Posted Image

Timing marks on the cam gears:
Posted Image

  • grayracer513

Posted April 14, 2011 - 07:54 PM

#19

Don't skimp on the torque wrench. Get a good 1/4" drive torque wrench from somebody other than the big box stores or Sears. It doesn't have to be Snap-on, just a good quality, accurate wrench. Money well spent. Those cheap Husky or Craftsman wrenches are not accurate.

The better Craftsman wrenches are not bad. Certainly better than Harbor Freight :thumbsup:

I prefer a beam type over a clicker for work at less than 120 in/lb because there's more feedback in the feel of them. Dial types are also good, but they cost a lot more and I'm not convinced they're that much more accurate. Beam types are hard to find these days, though. Napa has some, I believe.

  • Mr. Neutron

Posted April 14, 2011 - 08:02 PM

#20

FWIW, on the torque wrench subject, maybe someone can learn from my mistakes......

When I replaced my cam chain a while ago, I tried to use my trusty 3/8" drive Craftsman beam type torque wrench. Even with the shortest socket I could find (and grind), there were one or two bolts I just couldn't get the torque wrench on..... :thumbsup: Not enough room between the frame & the cam caps in places......

So I went & bought a click type micrometer adjustable torque wrench from Harbor Freight, which was something I was really hesitant to do.... But they claimed to have a certification sheet that had the wrench with 4% or less error. It wasn't worth the paper it was printed on......

I work at an aircraft manufacturing place, with a really good tool certification lab. They certify micrometers, gages of all sorts, and (How Fortuitous! :thumbsup: ), torque wrenches. That HF torque wrench was off over 20% at a couple of settings (tested with 5 pulls at each setting, in the clockwise/tightening direction, at 40, 120, and 200 inch/lbs.). It averaged around 8% off at the other settings, but it's inconsistency was the big "killer" for me. It really wouldn't even make a good hammer...... :cheers:

I ordered a CDI/Snap-On brand 1/4" drive wrench from Industrial Supply Company.

http://industrialsup...towr151dr3.html

I got the model #1501 MRMH, for $110 plus shipping. The only down side I've found to it is the narrow range of torque (20-150 in./lbs.). But that somewhat aids in it's accuracy, according to our calibration-cert. guy..... It is accurate within the 3% range advertised, and actually spot on at the "lower" torque range tested (40/80/120 in./lbs.; 5 pulls clockwise again).

My whole point here is with something that's fairly critical like the cam cap torque value, be careful with what you use to get the job done......

Jimmie





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