What Yamaha isn't telling us concerning the '01 Clutch mods that will fix '00 Probs



8 replies to this topic
  • YZ426_Kicks

Posted April 23, 2001 - 07:32 PM

#1

Hey Guys,

Thanks for reading my forum.

This forum is the 2nd in a series of 3. The first was entitled:

" I Opened my clutch and was completly dumb-founded. "

This one is going to really raise some eye-brows! :)

First things:

I ordered a Hinson basket from Rocky Mountain ATV and prepped it this weekend. Using titanium bits in a drill press, I drilled out the center core of the rivets. With a grinder, my friend ( more experienced ) ground down the weakened head of the rivets and the gear popped right off!

I inspected all the parts, and found nothing out of the ordinary. I cleaned them with Brake Cleaner and reinstalled on the Hinson per their instructions. What a difference between the Hinson and the stocker! Kinda reminded me of my shop days in High School making sand molds and pouring molten metal. The Hinson is so much better designed!

( Hey, I'm a rookie. I never saw the inside of a dirtbike clutch before. Real cool :D )

Now lets get to the good stuff.

Thanks to the help of Thumpertalk, I ordered the 3 parts used in the '01 YZ426 that supposedly prevent the grabbiness. To date here is what I purchased:

1. Specialty parts
2. New Stock Fibers
3. New Metal Plates

But here's the kicker!

There are other upgrade parts!

Yes, there are more upgrade parts!

I got a hold of the '01 schematics today from the dealership, and there is another part that is important. So important you're gonna have a ball over it!

Yup, it's a 11/32 BALL, not present in the '00, but in the '01.

This little steel ball is so significant!

If you view your '00 manual, it doesn't exist! Yet, when you look at the '01, it goes between the Push Rod(2), Item 10 in your '00 manual, and the Bearing, Item 9 in your '00 manual. I am researching if all part numbers are the same.

Like this: []o ///------------///

THIS IS WHAT I SEE: That 11/32 Ball acts like a spacer between the bearing plate and the push rod(2). It moves the bearing plate out away from the basket base, againt the hub, so that more tension goes against the pressure plate. This may not seem like much, but it is!

If I could figure out how to get the schematic to print on here I'd download both to show you.

The Part No. for the 11/32 Ball is:
93511-32027-00 ( Omitted in '00 )

The Part No. for the Bearing Seat is:
5JG-16356-00-00 ( Item 9 in your '00 breakdown )

***THESE ARE '01 PART NUMBERS***

I have all but one of the 3 parts mentioned in the other forum. That will be in at the dealer tomorrow. I will also inquire about the two above parts-wether the '00 and '01 are the same or different.

Either case, I believe I'm gonna have a ball!

I will say this:

I think its a shame that Yamaha didn't notify us about these changes. Just goes to show that they KNOW that a problem exists, and they fixed it! Right under our noses!

Enough said.

I hope this helps all my fellow thumpers get their bikes in shape! Guys, I know I've been a little high strung, but my boots are back in the mud again, and all I want to see is all of you having clutch issues to get em fixed right, without major problems! :D

And for those who have done the job already, be aware that these parts can and will make it only better! :D

And if you're afraid of doing this job yourself - DON'T!!!!

This clutch job is so easy!!!
Swapping the gear is the only difficult part of the job!

If you have any mechanical skill, listen to those of experience here in this community, and save the $300.00 of shop book time that your local dealer will rip off of you!

Hope this helps!

Thanks guys! Hope to be running this weekend!
Yahoo! MUD here I come! :D

God Bless!

Randy
YZ426 Kicks

  • dirtdad

Posted April 24, 2001 - 02:38 AM

#2

Here is a link to display the 2001 426 clutch breakdown. http://www.powerspor...=211660&ID=4284

I think the part Randy is referring to is item 21.

  • YZ426_Kicks

Posted April 24, 2001 - 05:03 AM

#3

Originally posted by dirtdad:
Here is a link to display the 2001 426 clutch breakdown. http://www.powerspor...=211660&ID=4284

I think the part Randy is referring to is item 21.


Hey Dirtdad!

Yes! Yes! Yes! You're awesome! Thanks! That's exactly it! :) :D :D

Has anyone installed that 11/32 ball and what kind of results have you experienced?

God Bless!

Randy
YZ426 Kicks

  • dirtdad

Posted April 24, 2001 - 05:16 AM

#4

Randy, one more thing you may want to look into before you install the 11/32 ball. Compare part #'s of the 00 pushrod and 01 pushrod. I'm guessing that the 01 pushrod may be slightly shorter to compensate for the addition of the ball. The link I provided does not list the part number for the pushrod. The 00 pushrod part number is 5jg-15357-00-00. Have your parts guy check that against the 01 pushrod #. Hope this helps.

------------------
00 YZ426F
01 TT-R125L (my son's)
91 CR125
83 YZ490
74 Hodaka Super Combat(gone but not forgotten!)

[This message has been edited by dirtdad (edited 04-24-2001).]

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  • YZ426_Kicks

Posted April 24, 2001 - 05:27 AM

#5

Originally posted by dirtdad:
Randy, one more thing you may want to look into before you install the 11/32 ball. Compare part #'s of the 00 pushrod and 01 pushrod. I'm guessing that the 01 pushrod may be slightly shorter to compensate for the addition of the ball. The link I provided does not list the part number for the pushrod. The 00 pushrod part number is 5jg-15357-00-00. Have your parts guy check that against the 01 pushrod #. Hope this helps.


Hey Dirtdad!

Thanks for all your help! :D

I went to the link you suggested and pulled up the schematics for the '00 and '01 clutch.
I compared the part numbers surrounding pushrod(1) & (2) and that 11/32 ball. Here's what I found:

PushRod(1)

'00, Item 14 in schematic, Part No: Y5BE-16356-00
'01, Item 17 in schematic, Part No: 5JG-16356-00-00

PushRod(2)

'00, Item 18 in schematic, Part No: Y5JG-16357-00-00
'01, Item 22 in schematic, Part No: 5JG-16357-10-00

Okay, what's the difference? :)

Pushrod(1) appears to be the same core part, except the pre-fix, and an extra "00" on the end.

Pushrod(2) appears to be different because of the "10-00" on the end.

I understand what your saying about the rod's length, but Im not so convinced. Why shorten a rod, to insert a spacer ( ball )?
That makes no sense whatsoever!

Either way, if you or anyone is experienced in Yamaha part numbers, you're understanding would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

God Bless!

Randy
YZ426Kicks!

:D Maybe I won't be playin' in the mud this weekend after-all :D

[This message has been edited by YZ426 Kicks (edited 04-24-2001).]

  • YZ426_Kicks

Posted April 24, 2001 - 06:57 AM

#6

Hey Guys,

Heads UP!

Per phone conversation with Heather at Yamaha Customer Service, here is the low down on the '01 clutch redesigning!

The following part numbers are NEW to the '01 model. They DO NOT supercede the '00 parts. That means all of the following components MUST be replaced to work. You CANNOT mix and match '00 parts with '01 parts.


Part Numbers:

PushRod(1) 5JG-16356-00-00
Ball 11/32 93511-32027-00
PushRod(2) 5JG-16357-10-00

* NOTE-PUSHROD(2) IS THE SAME LENGTH AS THE '00 PUSHROD(2) *

**** I dont know if you need to replace the bearing, washer plate, and circlip outer that go against pushrod(1). I'll find out! ***

You also need to replace the entire Push Lever Assembly. The '00 won't work with the '01 parts.

Here's the break-down:

Push Lever 5JG-16381-00-00
Bearing Cyl#15 93315-11206-00
Oil Seal SD Type 931402-12224-00
Seat Plate 4JT-16384-00-00
Flange Bolt 95027-06010-00
Torsion Spring 90508-142B5-00

The crank case block is the same since 1989

I don't know about you, but this really sucks! Sorry to say that, but Yamaha went out of their way to redesign the bike's clutches.

And according to Heather, not only was this change done in the YZ426, but also to the YZ250 and the WR426!

Okay, now what?
Do I order all these parts or what?

Have any of you run into this type of a situation with other Yammies or with other manufacturer's???

I'm gonna have a brank new clutch!

Hope this helps!

Take Care!

God Bless!

Randy
YZ426 Kicks

  • dirtdad

Posted April 24, 2001 - 09:05 PM

#7

Randy, the part #'s you listed for the bearing Cyl#15, Oil Seal SD Type, Seat Plate, Flange Bolt, and Torsion Spring are the same for both 2000 and 2001 models. The push lever is different, but I think I remember someone saying that the difference is that the arm on the lever is shorter on the 2001. They are supposedly interchangable though as I've heard of some 2001 owners changing to the 2000 piece for a longer throw in the push lever (easeir pull). The 11/32 ball is new. Push rod(2) does have a difference in the part #, but I'm not sure what the difference is. I called my parts guy and he's looking into it for me. As far as I can tell, the only parts needed for this upgrade are the three parts we discussed in your first post (friction plate,spring,seat plate), the 11/32 ball (my guess is that it makes oil transfer to the plates more effective) and possibly the push rod(2) (the shorter of the two, only I'm still looking into that). It's just a guess, but I would think that you could install the three new parts to the clutch pack and the clutch would work fine. I don't really think the 11/32 ball is required to make it all work. Again, I think it and the upgraded push rod may have something to do with oiling and may not be totally necessary. It's probably an improvement though so may be worth doing also. Hope this wasn't too confusing.

[This message has been edited by dirtdad (edited 04-24-2001).]

  • YZ426_Kicks

Posted April 24, 2001 - 05:45 PM

#8

Originally posted by dirtdad:
Randy, the part #'s you listed for the bearing Cyl#15, Oil Seal SD Type, Seat Plate, Flange Bolt, and Torsion Spring are the same for both 2000 and 2001 models. The push lever is different, but I think I remember someone saying that the difference is that the arm on the lever is shorter on the 2001. They are supposedly interchangable though as I've heard of some 2001 owners changing to the 2000 piece for a longer throw in the push lever (easeir pull). The 11/32 ball is new. Push rod(2) does have a difference in the part #, but I'm not sure what the difference is. I called my parts guy and he's looking into it for me. As far as I can tell, the only parts needed for this upgrade are the three parts we discussed in your first post (friction plate,spring,seat plate), the 11/32 ball (my guess is that it makes oil transfer to the plates more effective) and possibly the push rod(2) (the shorter of the two, only I'm still looking into that). It's just a guess, but I would think that you could install the three new parts to the clutch pack and the clutch would work fine. I don't really think the 11/32 ball is required to make it all work. Again, I think it and the upgraded push rod may have something to do with oiling and may not be totally necessary. It's probably an improvement though so may be worth doing also. Hope this wasn't too confusing.

[This message has been edited by dirtdad (edited 04-24-2001).]


Hey Dirtdad!

Believe me when I say I'm not trying to beat a dead horse. I just want to do what's right to get my bike running, and also provide reliable information for others.

On one hand, YAMAHA CUSTOMER SERVICE SAYS none of these parts are interchangeable between the 2000 bike and the 2001 bike.

On the other hand, you're telling me that they are.

Okay, which lever do I push? :)

Heather at YAMAHA CUSTOMER SERVICE told me they totally redesigned the system because of the troubles. Not only did they redesign for the YZ426, but revamped the YZ250, WR426F, and are using the new set up in the 250F.

According to her, ALTHOUGH THE PART NUMBERS LOOK ALIKE, THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. She specifically said you cannot mechanically interchange.

What interests me is what you said about the length of the push lever. You say some use the '00 because its longer and eases the throw?

How could the '01 be shorter? I don't understand that....

With the pushrod(2) being the same length in the '01 as the '00, it appears the 11/32 ball adds some length. Yes, I agree maybe there is an oiling issue there. I don't know, seem plausible.

I am at a loss as to what to do. I don't want to spend $$$ unnecessarily. I'm not Vanderbuilt. All the parts came to about $91.00 through the site you suggested. All are in stock at the Yamaha warehouse so I should be able to get them all within 2 weeks ( prayerfully ).

One friend suggested putting the bike back together now that I have the 3 parts we spoke about in the other forum and see how it goes. I'm at a disadvantage, because I'm trying to picture how this clutch works, and I'm coming up a little short.

( I never said I was a mechanical guru )

I just want this fixed and ride! But I want it done right the first time. Opening up the clutch once is enough!

Oh, FYI...

I did call back and ask about the bearing, washer, and circlip. She said they are interchangeable between the '00 and '01. In fact, those parts have been long standing amongst models all throughout the 90's.

Why is it that Yammie's engineer's apparently heard our complaint(s) and fixed the problem and inadvertantly "forgot" to tell us all about it?

Thanks for your help Dirtdad! :D

God Bless!

Randy
YZ426 Kicks



[This message has been edited by YZ426 Kicks (edited 04-24-2001).]

  • dirtdad

Posted April 25, 2001 - 02:47 AM

#9

Randy, first of all, can you actually imagine EVERY motorcycle owner (Yamaha or brand x) getting notification every time a model or part gets changed or updated? We presume that every year, there is/should be improvements made to these things. Sometimes these changes are small, sometimes they're very big. Consider for example when any particular auto manufacturer changed from carburation to fuel injection. Would you have expected them to upgrade the previous model year to fuel injection? It sure would have been an improvement but not necessary.

As far as the parts interchange issue concerning the info you got from Yamaha Customer Service, consider this. Say, I break one of those parts on my 2000. I go to the Yamaha dealer to order it. It has the same part number as the 2001 model part. How does the parts guy differentiate between the two. He doesn't because there is no difference. There's no note in his system that states "must order complete clutch or clutch parts set to replace". I looked into that yesterday with North County Yamaha.

Now I do believe that the two parts that are different (the 11/32 ball, push rod2) are an upgrade for better oiling. The difference in the push lever (not push rod) is the length of the lever arm, not the length of the shaft. They are presumably interchangable. I agree with your friend in that you should be just fine installing the new friction plate, spring, and seat plate along with your Hinson parts and ride it. The case and the rest of the motor (internal dimensions) are unchanged between the two years and I see no reason that you need to change all those other parts (even if they are new) to make your clutch work. Adding those three parts into the basket should not change the way those other parts interact with it. I hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by dirtdad (edited 04-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by dirtdad (edited 04-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by dirtdad (edited 04-25-2001).]





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