2010 450 breather re-route, check this out!


34 replies to this topic
  • brentn

Posted March 30, 2011 - 04:29 PM

#21

Well every time that the bike starts or stops, technically it can and does ingest foreign material.
I was thinking about running the line into the intake boot, and until I can play around with that and make sure that I can have a positive seal to it, I'm going to keep this system. I want a filter, I've seen dirt get in the engine, I just don't like that idea. As long as I make sure the filter is un-restricted and is protected from water (maybe even trying to mount it somewhere else) I think this is going to work out well for the engine.

  • motojase316

Posted March 30, 2011 - 07:34 PM

#22

Wrong on both counts.

On the first point, you would be correct only if the filter were allowed to become very dirty, and the debris being lifted were extremely light. If you let the filter become restricted, then there's no point in having it, or the second line that runs to it, and if you do that with a plugged hose on the down line, you may just as easily blow the cam cover half moons out from the built up crankcase pressure.

Closed crankcase ventilation requires the the only line OUT of the system is run to the intake manifold. Positive Crankcase Ventilation, as it is correctly called, consists of a metered passage from the crankcase to the manifold through a PCV valve, which draws air from a filtered hose usually located in the air filter, through the crankcase, and into the manifold. This is not at all the case in the plumbing suggestion I laid out.

The other thing to keep it mind in all of this is that the engine can only draw in more than the volume of air within the breather hose when it is operating or rotating at less than idle speeds, as when starting, or just as it comes to a stop. Any time that it is actually running, the vacuum caused by the piston upstroke is reversed to a positive pressure too quickly for the engine to ingest anything.


Nah not wrong at all with regards to the filter. even a clean filter will be a restriction versus an open end of the hose, so air will take the easiest path which is not through the filter but the open ended hose.

My Bad on the closed crank ventilation, I kind of glossed over the method you suggested there, That would not be closed crank ventilation in that case. Your description is accurate however.

  • grayracer513

Posted March 30, 2011 - 08:46 PM

#23

Well every time that the bike starts or stops, technically it can and does ingest foreign material.

"Does" "every time"? Then explain why neither of mine have ever had any trace of dirt in the top 6" of the breather. Both desert bikes with lots of time in the dunes. :cheers:

Nah not wrong at all with regards to the filter. even a clean filter will be a restriction versus an open end of the hose, so air will take the easiest path which is not through the filter but the open ended hose.

The difference is that you have two paths into the engine instead of one, and the one through which you are "trying" to draw solids or fluids is also a vertical path. Even a partially restricted filter will flow air at the vacuum levels required to raise something 18" up a tube.

Keeping the filter reasonably clean is important, as I said, and to that extent, you're right, but the existence of the second air path spoils a lot of the vacuum applied to stuff in the vertical.

  • motojase316

Posted March 30, 2011 - 10:04 PM

#24

"Does" "every time"? Then explain why neither of mine have ever had any trace of dirt in the top 6" of the breather. Both desert bikes with lots of time in the dunes. :cheers:

The difference is that you have two paths into the engine instead of one, and the one through which you are "trying" to draw solids or fluids is also a vertical path. Even a partially restricted filter will flow air at the vacuum levels required to raise something 18" up a tube.

Keeping the filter reasonably clean is important, as I said, and to that extent, you're right, but the existence of the second air path spoils a lot of the vacuum applied to stuff in the vertical.


I have never found any large debris in any of my yamahas 2006,2008, 2010 and 2011. I consider the end of the breather tube a service point and keep it clean, after each ride and remove any build up through out the day.

  • Aka.Goose

Posted March 30, 2011 - 10:38 PM

#25

Gray, I respect your opinion, so I'd like your critique of the set-up I ended up doing...IMO it's the best way to go for a few reasons:
1. Was a total of about $20 bucks. (the filter was most of that cost)
2. The plastic T and elbow has no reduction in inner diameter and causes no bends in the line.
3. The drain route is a straight shot down after the initial stock hose bend, the diameter doesn't reduce until after the T, and the filtered end is a straight slight incline.
4. The reduction in the drain line causes more of the air to be sucked from the filtered end, but allows for a little free-flowing air in case of the filter having any restriction.
Posted Image

Edited by GOOSE 07 YZ450F, March 30, 2011 - 11:46 PM.


  • Aka.Goose

Posted March 30, 2011 - 10:51 PM

#26

keep it clean, after each ride and remove any build up through out the day.

I realize your mostly talking about just the very end of the line, but even then you're definitely the exception...And quite a few of us have had sand (as in my case), fine desert dust, mud, and even water ingested through the stock set-up...There's no denying that it happens...May not happen often or in ideal situations, but it does happen...Like stalling out while crossing a creek you didn't realize was so deep, or trying to fire the bike up after bogging out in some mud, or starting the bike with the line resting in the sand because you dug in the rear tire to hold the bike up in the dunes, etc...Maybe rookie things to do, but I don't think too many people are aware of the breather hose even being an issue...

Edited by GOOSE 07 YZ450F, March 30, 2011 - 11:10 PM.


  • grayracer513

Posted March 31, 2011 - 06:29 AM

#27

Goose,

I think it's a good setup. The reduction in line size will restrict it from drawing much air up through the down run, and it can be left open without much concern.

I also like the idea of running the hose inside the T instead of over the ends of a smaller one (even though Yamaha uses one on the WR). What specific adhesive did you use, and how well do you see it holding long term?

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Aka.Goose

Posted March 31, 2011 - 12:23 PM

#28

What specific adhesive did you use, and how well do you see it holding long term?

It was one of the 3M Scotch-Weld duo-pack epoxies that you have to mix...It's been a long time and I made a mess of it and disposed the extra, so I'm not certain, but I think it was the "420" (I seem to remember thinking about it lightheartedly because of the number)...I do remember that it said it had a high solvent durability, and was for use with plastic/pvc and rubber...It's been holding up just fine...

  • brentn

Posted March 31, 2011 - 03:07 PM

#29

"Does" "every time"? Then explain why neither of mine have ever had any trace of dirt in the top 6" of the breather. Both desert bikes with lots of time in the dunes. :cheers:


I can easily explain it, we have different bikes. Did you not see the picture that I posted? That's from my bike, and yes that's dirt, and it's getting in. Every time, no I will obviously admit but it is getting in. Yours isn't and that's great to here but I have photographic evidence that proves otherwise for the 2010.

  • grayracer513

Posted March 31, 2011 - 03:21 PM

#30

I can easily explain it, we have different bikes. Did you not see the picture that I posted? That's from my bike, and yes that's dirt, and it's getting in. Every time, no I will obviously admit but it is getting in. Yours isn't and that's great to here but I have photographic evidence that proves otherwise for the 2010.

They aren't different enough to account for that, and people had photographic evidence that the older bikes did it, too.

That it incontrovertibly will happen is obviously just plain wrong.

  • Gunner354

Posted March 31, 2011 - 07:33 PM

#31

It was one of the 3M Scotch-Weld duo-pack epoxies that you have to mix...It's been a long time and I made a mess of it and disposed the extra, so I'm not certain, but I think it was the "420" (I seem to remember thinking about it lightheartedly because of the number)...I do remember that it said it had a high solvent durability, and was for use with plastic/pvc and rubber...It's been holding up just fine...


Next time you might try good ole GOOP. Sold at Walmart and many others. The stuff is simply amazing. I patched an old xr that had a hole in the case from a thrown chain. Never leaked. It is like silicone on steroids. Bonds and stays bonded. It will not tolerate gas like silicone.

  • primerib108

Posted April 02, 2011 - 02:39 PM

#32

I was inspired by Goose's breather tube reroute.......

Posted Image

^^Decided to replace all the carb vent hoses since mine were getting brittle. Clean the carb out while it was off the bike too.

Posted Image

^^Here is the T I installed with a clear hose running down the carb....had to zip-tye to the carb hoses so it would touch the head which could get too hot for the vent tube.

Posted Image

^^I used a lawn mower filter that I cut into 4's and an elbow.......project costed me a total of $9 :cheers:

  • Aka.Goose

Posted April 02, 2011 - 04:19 PM

#33

Looks good Prime! The only thing I'd criticize is that maybe you should switch the "T" so that the straight shot goes to the drain line and so that the air line has only an upwards route...I think the way you have it will cause the "spit" to go towards the filtered end, kind of bypassing the drainage route, and possibly "pooling" at the low point of the hose...

  • primerib108

Posted April 02, 2011 - 06:09 PM

#34

Gotcha! :cheers:

I thought it wouldn't matter so much considering any possible "sucking" the split line would only allow the path of least resistance. The T is also the low point of the whole system.....anyways, it won't take any effort to switch it around.

  • sledtrash

Posted April 11, 2011 - 08:22 PM

#35

Hmmmm. I guess I was trying to make a point that might've been missed.....

To me, Brent's re-route job, however well intentioned it is, may not do as he'd hoped. Most of us are trying to keep water/mud/dust/sand from inadvertently being slurpped up through the breather ("Puke Tube" as we call 'em.... :cheers: ). If his filter is put somewhere where water from a hose (when washing) can get to it, what keeps water from a track, mudhole, water crossing, from getting to it?

I honestly don't know where I would run it, if I had a 2010 model. I'd like to make some constructive help, rather than simply sit back & make critical comments. But again, I wonder how much is gained by placing the filter there????

Jimmie


Little filter with some slp prefilter wrapped around it.

its like gore-tec, but lets air through, I've been using this on my sleds for twelve years.

http://www.startingl...1&productID=367

on my 06 I routed it back to the air box. But I also have a WR side cover and I put a T right above the carb and ran a line down for the vent on the starter motor and I'm basically letting the oil that is puked up run down the line to the stator cover and the rest of the air is being filtered inside of the airbox with a $9 filter.

I will post a few pic's of it. If I would have went with all plastic fitting's it would have only costed less but I had something else in mind so I bought a different setup and then had to return the parts I could return. then use what was left... all told $21 but the 1/2 ID hose only cost me .99/foot. and the two fittings I would have needed a T and a nipple for the filter plus the filter: the whole project would have been $12.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image


Sucking dirt up may not be a normal thing but its worth it to have redundancies in place. I feel better now.

Edited by sledtrash, April 11, 2011 - 08:57 PM.






Related Content

 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.