The sad thing about these bikes is that they can be really solid and dependable if prepared properly. Problem is, those who know how to prepare them don't buy them, new riders do. I've had great luck with chinese bikes in the past and snap them up on craigslist when they show up on the cheap.

I have had japanese motorcross bike in the past, 125's and 250's.  Some of the parts on this Orion bike were not as quality with the castings and such.  I am pretty sure most people who have seen these up close will attest.  Does that mean that every Chinese bike will not perform.  No, but after investigating and dealing with this, it seems a high number of them do.  You cannot refute that.

All I know is that I got a lemon, 2 motorcycle shops have looked at this thing and have said they would just have to start trouble shooting to find the problem.  It could be jetting, it could be with the electrical system, the valves, an air leak somewhere.  Who pays $2000 for a motorcycle that does not work and has to pay at least a few hundred more to find out why it does not.

Orion Pit Bike Sales out of Granbury Texas are dishonest frauds.  There matter with the state of Texas is not resolved.  I talked to the officer myself this morning.  This is the second time the have been charged with selling motorcycles illegally.  This is a company you do not want to deal with.  There website looks great but it is a sham.  If they were as great as they say they are, "pit bike professionals", why would they send me a carburetor that does not properly fit the model of bike I purchased.  They should have known this.  Jason did not even know what a hang idle is.

orionresponse said:

What warranty?? It doesn't sound like they've done anything for their customer that would make me think a warranty that they back exists.

Sounds like a crock o sh*t to me. This little pit bike boom that started 5-6 years ago sure brought out some crappy bikes and shady dealers.

ridleyredraider said:

Yup, everyone is trying to make a buck selling crap to the public. Dont quote me but I remember something along the lines that the reason Honda started making their dealers combine with the car line (Honda Powerhouse) was because they were concerned with the growing number of dealers taking in these cheap chinese bikes. The dealers were able to sell them easier because they were cheap to buy, consumers would buy them over a lets say a CRF 70.

It just goes to show the real value of a buck. Ikea is another prime example of cheap crap sold to the public.

DHRACER said:

Couple of things to point out.

I don't pretend that the casting or general assembly of the Chinese bikes is as nice as the Japanese stuff. (although quite a few Japanese branded bikes and parts on bikes are in fact manufactured in China).

Also I don't dispute that you got a lemon. That sucks hugely for you. I can totally appriciate how you feel.

I will say however that I have personally witnessed a couple of Orion branded pitbikes, raced for a season by adults that didn't have the problems you have. I've also watched quite a few guys race other chinese bikes like the Thumpstars, and Pittster Pro's with great success.

Additionally I know of at least 2 Honda's, a crf70 and a crf80, with Chinese replacement motors bought for less than $300 that have ran a couple seasons and never been taken apart yet.

It's not a shock that you got the wrong carb. The bikes Orion imports they have no control over the assembly line (i'm guessing here, but that's the norm with china bikes). The product could change dramatically and they won't know untill the container shows up at the port, often 12+ weeks after they order.

What I do see in this thread is the guy from Orion saying they'll do what they can to make it right FREE of charge, and stating that they wouldn't give you a refund. I don't think that's unreasonable, give them the opportunity.  

A warranty does not imply or express a refund. Very different things. Honestly, you may not want to hear this but if I were in their shoes I wouldn't give you a refund either.

Opinions are opinions but the fact still remains that we have offered to replace your carb and any other parts that are found to be faulty, at no charge, and you continue to reject any help from OPBS.

Actually, they are not willing to replace the carb for free.  The original was sent back to Orion.  USPS has a confirmed delivery of the package.  Orion says they never received it.  It was in December so i figured may be it got lost. (After all the lies they have stated regarding this case, i wouldn't be suprised if they are lying about this too.)  I purchased another carb that i had to ask for a discount, because Jason was trying to charge me full price.  He said this carb would run great on this bike etc, etc. Well i get the carb and it doesn't mount up to the manifold very well and i still have a gnarly hang idle.

I already bought this carb.  They are not replacing anything for free.  They are trying to save face and look good.

Some of this Chinese stuff may be alright, but from what i have heard now  most of these dealers are shady dishonest people.  I can attest to and have proof of that.  

I would never buy again mail order either.  Buy from a local shop so if there are issues.  You can get them resolved.

Edited by DHRACER, 08 November 2011 - 10:44 AM.
addition

The carb also does not fit in the space it is supposed to and the bottom of the carb sits on the top of the engine.  From so called pit bike experts, they would have known that this carb does not fit this model of bike.

Also they lie about having OEM parts available.  All the replacements parts i had to reorder and pay for, were downgraded parts because they did not have the originals and do not know when they will have them. It is lie after the lie.

I get that you're pissed the bike hasn't worked out, but with the Orion people saying they'll help, you are just sounding like you don't want help you just want a refund.

Now if you try to work with this dude who's replying here and you get hosed, they I'm all for it blast away.

As per our warranty, we can not cover the original carburetor under warranty if we do not have the original part back. Instead of purchasing an OEM carb, you made the decision to purchase the upgraded Mikuni carb and a new Motion Pro throttle cable and Motion Pro throttle assembly, at the same time, as well. You were given these “upgraded” items at our cost because of the inconvenience of the situation.
You could have been sent the wrong carburetor; we sell over 10 different styles of carburetors. We are very knowledgeable but we are also human and make mistakes. There is no way to know that though if you do not send the carb back to us and give us a chance to correct it. You can continue to attack our company, our staff members, online dealers, Chinese manufactures, etc. but a very reasonable solution has continued to be offered and you refuse to take it.

Today I was advised to stop contributing to this thread for legal reasons, as Orion is also participating in it.

But I will say, there are those of you who have dealt with this company or ones like them, so you know what I am talking about.  We spent 5 months playing around with this bike, suppossedly losing parts in the mail, waiting for new parts, and I had a $2000 bike that could not be ridden.  A year later now, it still has not been ridden because, like almost all people, you spend that kind of money on something, you do not feel like it is your responsibilty to pay at least a few hundred more to figure out why it won't run.  I have already paid over $200 dollars in mechanics fees.  The problems with the bike are beyond what I can do myself. The bike is brand new.  This was not some $400 dollar cheapo.

If I can prevent someone from the same situation, I hope this helps.  Unless you can fix a bike thru and thru, buy from a physical location, not mail order. And you will have better luck 10x over with the big 4 Japanese.  

Orion can continue to try and "look good" for the forum by saying they will give and do all this stuff for free.  I think we both know there is still quite a bit of money involved in order for me diagnose the problem and get the bike fixed properly.  They just do not want to eat it.

Seriously? You haven't let an attorney talk you into paying them to pursue this have you? Not to be a dick but you're gonna have to drop $5-10k to try to work this out with a lawyer. And no attorney that wants to stay in business would take this on a contingency, as the only possible "damages" you'd have is the $2000 you spent plus the cost of the replacement carb. So were talking $2200 at most. Even at 50% contingency he couldn't make more than $1100. That gets about 3hrs of a lawyers time, maybe 4 tops.

As far as thinking they "look good", prove the members of thumpertalk wrong by posting emails where they say anything other than what they've said here. Perhaps if you had been around TT and participated I'd give your claims more credence, but since you signed up specifically for the purpose of bashing a company I'm having a hard time buying it.

DHRACER said:

ACDNate said:

Personally, I love seeing this! The guy is going to sue Orion, good luck. I hope he gets everything he deserves. I have to laugh at the idea the he probaby knew that these pit bikes dont quite come up to the same quailty standards as the big 5 but went against his own intuition and others advice and bought one. lol, like heck, its a 2000 dollar motorcycle. It would be a lot different if it was my 10,000 KTM but man, the mentality of people these days. The expect so more from a dollar. Its like going to ikea and trying to by the equivalent of some high end furniture and then complaining that it is made out of particle board. I hope Orion buries him in debt and the lawyer takes him for a few thou. I was on his side about the bike but im on Orion's side when it comes to the business.

Orion, please update us on the proceedings of the case, I would love to here the real truth about what really went on.

I would bet in about ten minutes I could make this bike run properly, I also doubt the mechanics knowledge that could not figure out an engine that is only slightly more advanced than a lawnmower engine for $200 in labor charges?
A hanging idle?  Sounds like you have a VM 26 carb, on a 150 engine.
It is going to need to be jetted, a 22.5 pilot jet, and a 160main jet.
The stock carb probably needed jetting as well, not many pitbikes will run in the states very well out of the box with out some adjustments.

Compare the warranty on this bike to that of a Honda CRF450? that bike is 8 grand? What the Honda does not have a warranty?

I also find it hard to believe that after purchasing this bike , and all the monies and grief, it has sat for a year? Please post some recent pictures of the bike I am sure we would love to see it,not pics when you got it, but of today, tomorrow etc.

At first I was like he is having trouble, now I am thinking  "internet blackmail" , this goes on all the time, "go above and beyond or I will run to all the internet and tell everyone"

Edited by ncc, 08 November 2011 - 09:25 PM.

ncc said:

+1 on all of the above. 2 full pages of BS and whining because somebody doesn't know how to tune a carb? A "mechanic" who says "...the jets in the carb could not be taken out..." and then charges $200?
No sympathy here, at all. As stated above, using "internet blackmail or extortion" to try and gain "followers for the cause" certainly isn't going to fly here. Blaming everyone else for mechanical ineptitude is just plain ignorant.

Its good to see I'm not the only one who sees this as total asshattery.

Could we get a mod to split off DHRacers crap and re-name that thread "i'm a whiny little bitch who can't make his bike work" or if you prefer "thanks to Orion for trying to help even though I'm a douchebag"

Hugemoth said:

minus atk***

Wow, you guys are great here. I am serious. I totally agree with calling someone out on such a matter.  I will try to keep this as brief as possible but you want facts for a clearer picture.

1. I did join this forum to add my 2 cents in to whomever started this thread because he is totally on point about this company. Nothing wrong with that.

2. I am not paying a lawyer.  It is nice to have friends help you out for free who are.

3. $200 in mechanics fees for 2 different times and then 1 second opinion requested by our credit card agency.

4. We bought the bike 10/28/2010.  Received it about 10 days later.  Prepped as instructed.  Started it up and it had a very bad hang idle, would not idle on its own and was a little difficult.  Orion was contacted right away. I called my brother to give me a hand.  He said because this is new, just take it to a certified shop just in case there are warranty issues. (He did warn me about chinese bikes, but OPBS seemed like a good company to deal with.) I take it to a shop. The mechanic removes the carb, make sure it is clean, he tries to remove the jets, but they were so tightened in the carb he was afraid of breaking the unit.  He showed this to me, and said if I wanted i could try to reomve them.  They were not coming out without breaking something. During this time We have talked with Jason a few times and had email correspondence. Jason is telling me to try a few different things like messing around with the fuel lines and i told him, there is no problem with any of that, the throttle cable was clear and returning properly.  At this point it is just the carb and jets potentially.  But they have me send the carb and the whole throttle housing and cable.  I send them back around the the begining of December.  I do not hear from them for 2-3 weeks.  I email them to ask what the verdict is on the parts.  They tell me they never received any parts.  So i go back and check with the post office.  They have a confirmed delivery of the package.  We what a couple weeks to see if the things turns up it never does suppossedly.  I purchase new parts, of which i have to talk them into giving me a discount in light of the situation. Jason also assures me that what he is sending me will work with the bike and i shouldn't have anymore issues. And they will ship them out right away. It is the begining of February now.  I wait for like 3 1/2 weeks.  I send an email asking what is going on and also said i would just like a refund and i'll send the bike back.  They tell me they didn't have the parts they thought they did and they have them now and they will send them.  So now it is like mid March when i get the parts.  I mount the carb and notice, it does not mount up too well to the manifold, it is too big for the space and the bottom of the carb sits on the engine and the drain line gets completely pinched off.  So i start the bike just to see what happens.  Same thing, hang idle, won't hold idle, difficult to start. Orion is contacted.  They would not respond to my email.  I take it back down to the same mechanic. I call Orion, and they say to have the mechanic call him.  He does.  The mechanic contacts me with the following.  1. Jason acts like a dick.
2. He said he had to keep repeating himself like 4 times because Jason kept saying he "doesn't understand this"
3. Jason tells him he does not know what carb he sent me, he has no record of it or part numbers and to take the carb apart again and send pictures to him.  
4. He asked if there was any manual or spec sheet for the jetting, valves, etc. They do not have kind manuals or specs for their bikes.

At this point things do not seem to be adding up to what we are being told and what is actually happening.  So we contact our credit card agency and let them know we are having issues with his purchase.  They ask us to get a second opinion.  I take it to another shop. They pretty much verify the same issues and state they would just have to start at point A and go from there.

We after like 8 weeks  we get a statement from the credit card company with some of Orion's statements.  Orion told them they are "baffled by this, and that we never contacted them about any of this.  They also accussed of of riding the bike for a few months, now it needs maintenance and we are trying to scandaloulsy get our money back.

This really pissed me off.  Why are these guys blatantly lying about what is going on. So after some more hoopla, the credit card agency tells that although we have a valid claim against this company as they can see, they will have to defer this to the courts.

Well, I decided to investigate this company because why the heck would they sit and outright lie. We found that Orion had no license to be advertising and selling motorcycle.  They had already been charged and fined before for this.  They had false information on their website which they have now removed.  They just recently changed parts of their warranty policy.
If you call the shop and ask to speak to the owner, they will not let you know who the owner but defer the calls to Jason.  They will not disclose their full names.  They have had other complaints similar in nature.

I also contacted the second opinion shop to see if our credit card agency had spoken with them.  They said no, but Orion called them asking them about they work order. He pretty much stated the same thing the first shop owner said.
1. jason was a total dick.
2. He had to keep repeating himself over and over because Jason kept saying "I don't understand".
3. Jason threatened him, saying he is part of some scam, and the Jason has the Texas D.A. involved.  At which the shop owner asked for the D.A.'s name and phone number.  At which Jason started back peddling, and the phone call was ended.

Sooooo, if i can get my money back from a company that is a bunch of liars, and not being straight up about what is going on, I am going to. They can have their bike back and fix it themselves.

I never expected them to be on here trying to refute my original post.  But that is why i say they are trying to save face here because they know they have been caught lying and trying to weasel their way out of dealing with this properly in the first place.

Call me a whiner or &%$#@!, give me your fax number and you will see for yourself. I have not tried to fix the bike since because i would rather have my money back from these jerks.

What kind of "mechanics" did you bring that bike to??? No mainstream shop will touch the chinese bikes, as they don't have parts for them, and don't want to risk effing something up and having to hunt down a fix for you. Some sort of independent shop?

I've pulled carbs off a bike that sat for 15yrs with gas in it. The worst carb I've ever seen. Jets don't really get "stuck" to the point you can't get them out. Sure they'll be tight, but nothing like the "mechanic" explained to you.

You mentioned putting the carb on and it still wouldn't run right. No carb you buy will ever just work. Even if you run down to Honda and buy a brand new Kehein carb for a crf whatever, you won't be able to bolt it on and go. There's a tuning process as no two bikes are exactly alike.

Based on your statement "certified shop", I'll assume your a novice with motorcycles. That's ok. I'd be willing to bet, if you would have came to this section of the forum and asked for help getting the bike tuned up and running right a member in your area could have helped you get it together.

I thought you were advised to stop contributing to this thread?  Post some pics of the bike with the carb you got on it now, and we can assist you in getting it running.
There is no way your getting a refund,, not through civil court or any other way, you might as well make it run.

BTW, I do this for a living,, What the hell is a "hang" idle?