uuhhhh, on 30 January 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Since you have so much free time, posting in the crap sections of the forum, how about you tell all these people, on all these other threads, they are ALL wrong! In fact, show them they're wrong by making an A/B comparison video with you riding using the "nip" technique and then ride WITHOUT the "nip" technique.

clutchless shifting
clutch when shifting
not using clutch when downshifting?
Shifting: clutch, throttle or not?
Shifting
General clutch/shifting question
shifting question
http://www.thumperta...ad.php?t=921229

Sorry you couldn't watch my video's, but they do work fine if you have quicktime player installed on your windblows puter.

Sorry I don't race, but racing doesn't make you magically have good techniques. You first have to build good techniques and then you can race effectively. Someday when I have all of my techniques down, I will race. Unlike teenagers and young adults, I do things the right way and take my time. I'm in no hurry to brake more bones and miss work all because I "had" to race in order to magically become better.

How about you point out exactly where I said anyone using the clutchless method is wrong.

Point out exacly where I said power shifting (or "nip" technique) is the BEST or ONLY way to shift a bike.

Point out exactly where I said shifting without the clutch is a BAD technique and should not be used.

IIRC I said nothing of the sort. In fact, I frequently employ BOTH methods as track conditions call for, and depending on what type of bike Im riding.

I simply claimed power shifting CAN be done QUICKLY and SMOOTHLY, provided a simple explanation of the process and why it works, and posted a video where the power shift is used without a problem. It makes no difference WHO is in the video. Your claim that the nip doesnt disengage the clutch enough is toast.

I can tell you that that big uphill double is easier to clear on a 125 when using the power shift. Unfortunatly for you, an A/B comparison video will be dman near impossible to quantify without 1/8 mile times, or something that eliminates every other variable. Still, if you want me to make a video, then cover my costs for the day and loan me a helmet cam. I'll take my bike out of winter storage and record a few laps at the nearest open track.

Stop trying to find information in my posts that isnt there.
Stop trying to iterpret my posts.
Stop putting words in my mouth.

uuhhhh, on 31 January 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

I said:

tye1138, on 25 January 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

You said:

uuhhhh, on 28 January 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

uuhhhh, on 28 January 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

If the cluthless shifting method WAS acceptable by you, I don't think you would have said "bad advice".

Also, because you couldn't watch my video's, you are missing my whole counter-argument. So its hard to even comment until you've seen them.

Its ok though, I never said once that the "nip" method was bad advice, I just said its a technique that I've not found to be any quicker. Neither have all the people in the countless threads I posted as well.

Next time, don't come into one of my threads and spout "bad advice" when you clearly know its not... that gets me really pissed off. If you spent all your time working on technique and helping people, you would get a bit upset of someone random said you were wrong when you are clearly not.

See post #34. The bolded statements are bad advice/incorrect. The bolded statements are what I was referring to.

You don't need a counter-argument because I never said or even suggested that clutchless shifting wasn't acceptable, YOU ASSUMED.

Quote

Right, you said "useless".

I really hate to interupt this juicy little spat but I use the clutch when I can even if it is just nipping it, but if I get in a situation, I just shift without it. BTW I'm not a racer anymore but I still like riding hard on occasion. Have fun kiddies.

only time i didnt use the clutch was when i missed the lever and on my old crf50...(i think i need a closer lever)

Just to throw out some useless info, I had an 1981 CR450 that was a 4 speed. I rarely used the clutch OR let off the throttle. Just pull up like you mean it, and BAM, next gear.

It was great.

I ran that bike for over 10 years and never had an issue.


Ok, maybe not bery hepful . . .

with all due respect to Gary Semics (i appreciate your input on topics) im not quite sure i understood or see the need to "nip" the clutch to speed shift. Totally agree there are times you should use a bit of clutch to ensure a shift, use the clutch to get more power out of a corner or clear an obsticle, etc. I could see the need for a tickle of the clutch on a two-stroke, especially lower displacemnt bikes where if they fall off the pipe you are gonna go dead-slow. a tap of the clutch might ensure the rpm's stay up, but on modern 4-strokes with power all throughout the rev range it is a waste of effort much of the time when a well done roll off/shift for most is easier than pulling the clutch in (especially a 450 4t with a bear of a clutch already). That said, there likely is NO harm in shifting with the clutch, just pulling it in enough or "nip" to allow a shift, OR.. with some practice, just roll off the gas about 5% and shift.

Anyway.. here is a good thread ... http://www.thumperta...less%20shifting
HUGE recent crf450r forum debate on this very topic.
Anyone that is still using a clutch to shift all the time is A) new to riding motorcycles hasn't raced bikes much C) all of the above.

1) im not new to motorbikes 2) have raced both mx and roadrace for years
mx trans and roadrace trans are THE SAME. You do need to slightly unload the trans but the bike will shift like butter with 10-15 minutes of practice. in roadracing ya use the clutch to downshift until they prefect teh ECU to auto-rev (and that ain't far away). We already have quickshifters that cut ignition, for full throttle clutchless UPshifts (so you don't have to back off the gas 5% like speedshifting a dirt bike)

All we need is rocksalt and conversation can keep going!

screnshaw400, on 01 February 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

lol.. the gift that keeps on giving!

Option #1 - Shift with no clutch and full throttle

Option #2 - Shift with nip of the clutch and full throttle

Option #3 - Shift with no clutch and 90% of the previous throttle opening

#1 Chance of missed shift in heavy load situations with possible tranny damage on hung gears

#2 raises the RPM slightly and unloads the tranny a bit

#3 drops the RPM and unloads the tranny a bit

Fair?

Gary_Semics, on 12 February 2011 - 09:17 AM, said:

I totally agree with this. I do a lot of engine work on pro and intermediate bikes and well the good pro's are just hard on transmissions regardless if they use the clutch or not. I havent seen any transmission failures directly related to someone powershifting all the time. And yes missing a gear while power shifting sucks big time especially if you are entering a whoops section or exiting a corner right into a jump.

MELK-MAN, on 01 February 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

On (nipping) the clutch I can see where Gary is coming from on that though I do think it depends on the bike too. Some bikes dont like to shift without the clutch and its almost required to nip the clutch to get it to shift. Just my experiance.

Jyezest, on 10 February 2011 - 05:12 AM, said:

how do you suggest this is going to happen? bike gearboxes are constant mesh, the load from power shifting is no where near enough to snap teath, is power shifting without using enough pressure you may end up round the dog's, but that's about as dangerous as it get's bent shift forks normaly come from crash damage or not putting things back together properly.

Jyezest, on 10 February 2011 - 05:12 AM, said:

If you break a gear tooth, it isn't because of the way you shift. It's because of a manufacturing defect or a design flaw.

Our engines use sequential constant-mesh transmissions, the gear teeth are always engaged to the opposing cog. All you are doing when you shift is engaging/disengaging the dog rings.

just to add 2C.




i have tried some different shifting methods, and i like to use them all for different functions. clutchless for upshift. i let the gas off a little and it shifts up perfect, and only takes about a half a second or less. for downshifting when going up hill, i use the clutch nip method, and dont let off the throttle. it works out perfect because in the time the clutch is disengaged, the engine rises up to about the proper speed to mesh in with the lower gear. if im downshifting going down hill(using gears to slow down) i just give it a little burst of throttle to get it into the lower gear.

im just a lowly trail rider who enjoys riding my motorcycle im not an all knowing and all mighty MX RACER!!!!!!

I have been riding and occasional racer from supermoto, grand-pre , flat track , motocross, track days on the R1....you name it I be the cross over Jack.... Been riding for 28 years and have road and owned just about everything from HD to Husaberg 2-4t bla bla bla and fix my own stuff too... Anyone who says shifting without the clutch doesn't hurt the bike doesn't know.... There are riders who have mastered the clutchless method and all that's saying to me is they have learned to make this style work for them... Let's see you on a R1 with no slipper clutch brake hard from 150mph and down shift with no clutch and not catch a rear wheel chatter that would probably send you off the track..... There is no in between gear ratio , you going from 3-4 with no clutch causes two ratios to callide and the clutch absorbs this change in gear speeds.... These trany's are tough no doubt designed to take abuse like this but to encourage people this is the way to be faster is bad advise.... There is nothing worse on a bike listening to the trany bounce between second and third in false neutral.... The more you shift with no clutch the sooner your shit wears out and misshifts period... It also transfers the extra shock your putting on your gears to your timing chain and everything else mechanical that has to absorb an instant 2k rpm difference and to shift a wide ratio with no clutch is even worse ! I like using the clutch ! Maybe at work I shift my Kenworth clutchless but that's because it is designed for it ... Bikes aren't like cars/big rigs were you go threw neutral every shift, tell yourself what you want to but I use my trany shock absorber/ clutch cause I like staying in control at all times , not using a clutch causes the rear to break loose, more noticeable and dangerous depending if your running a slipper on the street/ dirt not as big of a deal.... Not using the clutch is bad advise... We all have our 2 cents , I like positive shifts all the time and keeps the metal shavings in the oil down to a minimum/more so than someone who doesn't use the clutch.