Bike let me down today!!


20 replies to this topic
  • brentn

Posted January 13, 2011 - 03:10 PM

#1

Damn...

It's -25 here right now (celcius) and it's been like that for the past week or so and I've been stuck in the house. Couldn't take it anymore and decided to take the bike out for a snow ride, I got a new pipe for it before christmas and at christmas I got a trailtech vapor. Really wanted to hear how the bike sounded under load and wanted to see how well the trailtech would work out for me...

So I get my long underwear on, basketball shorts, knee tensors and then knee pads and pants. 3 l shirts, thermo-paws and gloves underneath I was ready to rock. The drive out there is about 40 minutes (60km) to the staging area so I brought some tunes.
Before I left the house I pulled the exhaust plug and fired the bike up (3 kick cold start on) to make sure I had a working bike for the drive out there.
I get to the staging area and the snow plows have completely covered the unloading ramp, so I used one of the snow banks and started to unload.

Hands are starting to freeze now so I figure I'll warm them up in the truck while the bike warms up, so I get it on the stand (Makes easier starting for me when it's on a stand) and pull the exhaust plug and put the cold start on.
15 ****ing kicks later, nothing.
Cold start off, kicking, nothing.
Could smell gas, flooded I guess.

Full throttle (holding it there) and kicked slowly about 15 times to relieve the cylinder of gas and waited about a minute.
Flicked the cold start on, tried again, nothing not even a friggen pop.

Did the unflooding technique again, but this time I left the cold start off and tried kicking it over. Heard it stumble a few times, and a pop, but it would not fire...
Did the unflood technique and then waited in the truck to warm my hands.
Got out, tried again, nothing....

This went on for about 30 minutes before I finally just said **** it and packed up and drove outta there.

So the bike starts in the garage (not heated) at -10C no problem, has done so in the garage at -10 to -15 no problem for the past month. I start it often to keep the internals lubricated and to just hear the damn thing sometimes.

But I bring it out to the trail, and the outside temp is 10 degrees colder and NOTHING!!!!!
Why?

I did add 10% to the starting fuel circuit using the power commander back in november, and never had a problem until now. The extra 10% got me starting the bike in 3 kicks cold and I was pretty happy with it. Now I think for the extreme cold I'm going to take it off and put it back to normal.

The only other thing I can think of is three things.

-Temperature sensor does not work well at colder temps, causing the bike to be extra rich at below -15? (giving false reading?)
-Taking the drive out there has super cooled the engine with the wind shear and colder temps, making compression to low to start?
-Taking the drive out there and not plugging the intake, ices up the intake filter on the bike, Haven't confirmed this cause I didn't have any tools with me out there...

Your thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.
Bike is a 2010 yz450

  • jcbikes

Posted January 13, 2011 - 03:33 PM

#2

When you started the bike at home, did you let it warm up to operating temp. before shuting it down? If not, condensation was produced and probably then froze somewhere messing something up. Then maybe fouled the plug. I always warm my bike up completely in very cold weather. Just a thought.

  • brentn

Posted January 13, 2011 - 04:08 PM

#3

I shut it down right away, cause I just wanted to leave.

  • mxmaddman

Posted January 13, 2011 - 06:55 PM

#4

motors of all sorts hate temps that cold man. you would certainly need to change some jets for proper reliability in -13* temps. Mine are the same way when its really cold out. you can kick them over until the cows come home but if the mixture isn't right they just wont light.

  • brentn

Posted January 13, 2011 - 06:57 PM

#5

Yes well that's what fuel injection is supposed to do automatically.

I'm personally thinking that the temp sensor doesn't read right at lower temperatures.... Need more evidence to prove that and try some other things to rule it out..

  • crf450319

Posted January 13, 2011 - 09:14 PM

#6

What I've done when I'm on my way out to go ride on the ice (here in MB), is start the bike in my garage and load it up in the back of my truck. Then I'll leave it running while I'm driving for 10-15 min and then shut it off, I'll drive another 10 min and then fire the bike back up again.

I'll do that if temps are below -20C (-4F), keep in mind that the furthest I'm driving is an hour (on the highway) and the bike get's more than enough cool air in the box of my truck. It makes starting it out on the ice much much easier.

Just an idea..

:smirk:

  • brentn

Posted January 13, 2011 - 09:42 PM

#7

lol, I can imagine the stares when your driving with a bike running in the back of your truck -20 :smirk:

Interesting idea

  • yathump

Posted January 14, 2011 - 02:51 AM

#8

When you started the bike at home, did you let it warm up to operating temp. before shuting it down? If not, condensation was produced and probably then froze somewhere messing something up. Then maybe fouled the plug. I always warm my bike up completely in very cold weather. Just a thought.


+1 I'd pull and check the plug
If i'm going to start any bike in the cold its going to stay running until its completely warmed up, but thats just me

  • Pezman04wrx

Posted January 14, 2011 - 05:41 AM

#9

My 04' has always hated starting in the cold ... Some time ago I put a very small ball valve (similar to a "fumoto" oil drain valve) into my intake path ... Most of the year the valve just sits there and is always closed up tight ... When the temps get down far enough that I can get 10 kicks in without a hint of starting, then the fun starts ... I flip the little valve open, stick in my starter fluid spray can nozzel tube and give a quick little squirt ... Close off the valve, and it fires up first kick ... My CR gets a squirt right in the cylinder, just like my chainsaws ...

  • brentn

Posted January 14, 2011 - 11:05 AM

#10

That sounds like a great idea!

However when I'm kicking it smells like fuel... not huge but you can smell it... thought it was running rich. If it's running rich a shot of starter fluid would not help...

But you have experience with the issue, so did your bike smell rich but the starter fluid helped anyways?

The intake on my bike past the throttle body consists of a 1" rubber boot as far as I can tell, and it's way up inside the the front of the bike... A small little cover valve could go there with a tube or something...

thx for the reply!

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  • HRC

Posted January 14, 2011 - 11:35 AM

#11

I´v had some major problems starting my -11 sometimes. Bike does not like when it´s cold that´s for sure !

My -10 Honda was much easier on that part.

  • brentn

Posted January 14, 2011 - 11:42 AM

#12

This is def not the first time, but it was the only time where I actually gave up.

Usually I clear the engine of gas (Hold throttle wide open) and start kicking from scratch to get the bike primed, usually it will start but it is very difficult. Last time I was out it was about -5 which was 20 degree's warmer than yesterday and had really no issues. Left the plug in the exhaust so I flooded it big time, but after I figured that out and cleaned out the chamber of fuel, she fired up in a few kicks.
I'm using really really thing UNI Oil on the filter too, so it's not like it's starving for air in the cold like it was with the maxima.

So what are your tricks HRC?
I wish there was a hill or something in which I could bump start it, but there isn't..

  • tech24

Posted January 14, 2011 - 12:11 PM

#13

Never had mine out in that cold, I think the coldest has been 20 degrees F not sure what that is in C, -5ish? However my bike starts best in the cold it seems. I'm still hold firm to my belief that the idle mixture is way too rich stock, not sure how yours starts better with +10%. But I'm bettin it will fire right up stock or leaned out a tad. I would at least give it a try. The ECT sensor should read accurately to -40 degrees F.

  • HRC

Posted January 14, 2011 - 12:17 PM

#14

This is def not the first time, but it was the only time where I actually gave up.

Usually I clear the engine of gas (Hold throttle wide open) and start kicking from scratch to get the bike primed, usually it will start but it is very difficult. Last time I was out it was about -5 which was 20 degree's warmer than yesterday and had really no issues. Left the plug in the exhaust so I flooded it big time, but after I figured that out and cleaned out the chamber of fuel, she fired up in a few kicks.
I'm using really really thing UNI Oil on the filter too, so it's not like it's starving for air in the cold like it was with the maxima.

So what are your tricks HRC?
I wish there was a hill or something in which I could bump start it, but there isn't..


I always keep the bike in a warm garage before I ride it. Then bike starts easy....and once it started and engine is hot their is no problem restarting the bike. As long as I don´t wait too long betwean my riding sessions.

  • tech24

Posted January 14, 2011 - 12:19 PM

#15

Also being that this FI system has no self controlled idle system you may need to turn out the knob a few clicks in this extreme cold since the colder it is the higher the idle needs to be for start up and I'm not so sure that the cold start knob on its own is enough of an idle bump at this temperature.

  • Fastdaddy

Posted January 14, 2011 - 01:14 PM

#16

Add some sea foam fuel stabilizer. Will take all the condensation out of the fuel system.

  • Weapon X

Posted April 04, 2011 - 10:58 AM

#17

worse thing you can do for a 4 stroke plug is fire motor up then shut it down right away without it getting to operating temperature!

  • brentn

Posted April 04, 2011 - 07:23 PM

#18

worse thing you can do for a 4 stroke plug is fire motor up then shut it down right away without it getting to operating temperature!


why?....

  • grayracer513

Posted April 04, 2011 - 10:09 PM

#19

Because because it coats the plug with a sticky glaze that is semi-conductive, and if it doesn't get hot enough to burn it off the insulator, you may be disappointed the next time you got to start the bike, particularly with some of the '02 and earlier models that had less powerful ignitions.

  • brentn

Posted April 05, 2011 - 03:57 PM

#20

Shouldn't be a problem with iridium plugs?

Guy says that its the WORST THING YOU CAN DO, and if it's just a fouled plug ***? :cheers:





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