First Ride with new exhaust



24 replies to this topic
  • Dan_from_HB

Posted July 19, 2003 - 02:05 PM

#21

Actually, you guys are both right and you're both wrong. Most, but not all riding areas HAVE BEEN shut down due to non-noise issues cited in court or to the governing agency (BLM, USFS, or whoever). But the fight is being taken to the court of public opinion.
In the past, enviros could not get their way by legislative means. So, they took it to the government agencies involved. That worked for a while, but then we made better arguments based upon science, so they had to start filing lawsuits to get their way. Now, they are finding we are smarter than we used to be, and we're matching their lawsuits with some of our own. Logically enough, this seems to be working.
So, what recourse do they have? The court of public opinion, which will force legislators to pick up the enviro cause, and create new laws to limit or exterminate us.
They've cleaned up the air. They've cleaned up the water. They have almost no "Superfund" hazardous waste sites left. So, guess who gets the attention now? Off-roaders and all the other multiple use groups who are typically not large enough nor politically active enough to effectively defend ourselves. It's the new darling issue of the enviro groups and the leftover 1960's socialist rejects that have taken them over.
Since we have shot down most of their earlier arguments and proven them to be wrong in most cases, what issues/public annoyances can they exaggerate enough to get the public and legislators to listen?
You guessed it. Noise. They are pushing this issue at all levels from city council to county supervisors to state legislators all the way to the US Senate. And the only reason the legislators will listen this time? Because the general public is annoyed with noise from many sources, and will support the legislation this time around. Including noise from dirt bikes. Especially if they don't ride.
That's why I now ride with a FMF Q Series.
I agree that there are times when a little more power is necessary to climb that really big hill, or outpull a competitor. And I don't suggest that we should have noise limits for competition events. That's going a little too far. You'd have to be from Mars not to expect a little noise from a motor racing event. But I think while trail riding, we can make ourselves a little less obnoxious in many ways. Quieter pipes are just one of them.
My 2 cents.
Dan

  • endurodog

Posted July 19, 2003 - 06:14 PM

#22

Noise. They are pushing this issue at all levels from city council to county supervisors to state legislators all the way to the US Senate




Dan I have seen these complaints brought up by the public, there is no doubt that they do complain about noise, but you can break this group of complainers down into 2 groups. Those that would complain about any noise, and those that complain about the guy with and open 4 stroke exhust or a 2 stroke with no packing left.

Now with this in mind we can't do anything about those that complain about any noise. Then we are back to the argument of what noise will the other group complain about? 90, 96, 99, 103, 105 ??

Then the base question comes up, while there may have been complaints about the noise it isn't closing any areas that are under the umbrella of the 96 DB regs, they have all been closed because of other enviromental issues.

Keep in mind that this point is only a small part of the big noise picture. This is a complicated issue and on this one I'm just trying to illustrate why areas have been closed down.

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  • justchillinoutovahere

Posted July 19, 2003 - 07:27 PM

#23

I think if we could just get rid of the moron quad riders that will sit in one place and do donuts all damn day that loud bikes wouldn't be a problem at all. As far as closing down more riding areas in my neck of the woods, they're all already closed so we find ways around, if u don't like that, then oh well. Im not trucking my bike two hours out to the berkshire mountains during the five months of the year riding is legal in massachussets just to have some fun on my bike.

  • Dan_from_HB

Posted July 21, 2003 - 02:54 PM

#24

Rex,
I'm with you to an extent. I think the thing you're missing is that this is an incremental disease. No authority, whether it be the courts, legislature, or agencies, are looking at the big picture and saying that if we just give them everything above some arbitrary level (96dB?), we can just go about our merry way, unmolested. It's never worked that way. The enviros consider every agreement merely a current temporary stepping stone to the real goal. Everything's negotiable to them, including brand new agreements and compromises. And our overly-litigious and overly-regulated system of the last 25 years plays right into that strategy.
Bill Dart and others are merely negotiating this figure up from a ridiculously low number that would otherwise be forced upon us. They're not pretending that all complaints will cease when we are all in compliance at 96dB. They just know that we have to fight one issue at a time if we are going to play a defensive game. The enviros are dictating the issues based upon their latest complaint priorities.
We are finally learning that offense is the only way to score victories, and we are beginning to use it to our advantage. It allows us to dictate the issue, and set a precedent based upon science, not conjecture. We've finally learned that we are in this fight up to our necks if we want to win, and we have to play offensive ball to do it. It's been a long time coming, but the tide may be starting to turn a little. Don't look for a sudden reversal right away, just little victories. But once the momentum changes, details like sound will not be a big issue any longer.
Joining ORBA, BRC, Corva, AMA, etc is the only way to win, because they fund the offensive game.
Dan

  • endurodog

Posted July 21, 2003 - 06:00 PM

#25

I'm with you to an extent. I think the thing you're missing is that this is an incremental disease. No authority, whether it be the courts, legislature, or agencies, are looking at the big picture and saying that if we just give them everything above some arbitrary level (96dB?), we can just go about our merry way, unmolested.



Dan I think we think alike here. I agree with this. The problem I have is 2 fold. First the setting of the limit at 96 just because its hard for us to meet with the current technology. If we had set the limit at 101 or 99 we would have been able to meet it, give something to the anti noise people and not suffer a bunch as a group. We as community caused this problem to an extent by letting 118 DB bikes run around in the woods and not enforcing our old standard.

The 2nd point is the way that our orgs, i.e. BRC and AMA are selling this stuff to us. Bill Dart in particular saying no one needs that much power and the "less sound = more ground" stuff. If he had come out and told the truth and said

"We need to play nice, this is our compromise, and to use the woods we need to compromise, here is a sound requirement that we can meet and still have good performance, not perferct but good."

I would have buyed into it. But they treated us like kids in my opinion. I have let my AMA membership lapse and will not renew it till I need it to enter a race. If it wasnt' for that I wouldn't rejoin at all. I still belong to a couple of other orgs though. Anyway that is the bottom line of my frustration with all of this.




 
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