Loud Bikes Take II - - - - - A civil Discussion Please



61 replies to this topic
  • DesertChris

Posted July 14, 2003 - 11:19 AM

#21

It really depends on where you are at. Here in southern Nevada we are losing ground to development and dust restictions. Nobody is hiking or camping in my riding areas but we do come across horse riders from time to time.

As for loud pipes, (I'm running a stock YZF can) I am for them in racing; it lets me know when someone is coming up from behind and lets the guy infront of me know I am behind him. Things can get pretty hairy when you sneak up on someone at high speed. As for general riding and pratice I hate them, hard on the ears and makes them ring for hours after the ride. I do not ride in populated areas but if I had to comply to a noise limit I would to avoid the hassel, I don't like to pay for car registration and insurance but it does make it a lot easier to drive on the streets. On the other hand there will always be those that move next to an airport and complain about the noise and our bikes will never be quiet enough to make everybody happy.

  • BrandonW

Posted July 14, 2003 - 11:30 AM

#22

As for noise; Get a load of this!

We have (HAD!) a sweet little go-kart track located about 4 miles out of town. RIGHT NEXT TO AN AIRPORT!

Thing ran for aobut 4 years, and it was up for a new lease, and the Port District (Their job is to FOSTER ECONOMIC GROWTH!) who owned the land, decided not to renew the lease.

Why? Because of noise! (Neighbors who live next to an airport complained about the kart track!)


&%$#@!?

This place rented 4-stroke karts, and held occasional events were the 2-stoke "shifter" karts showed up, but those were rare. The proprieter of the business stated that he would forgo the events that brought in the shifter karts, and he would just continue to rent his 4-stroke (8-10 hp) karts, but the neighbors kept complaining about noise!

They live next to a fricken' airport!


Silly people are all around, and it seems like the dimmest propogate thier genes the most!

  • glamisbound69

Posted July 14, 2003 - 02:37 PM

#23

Okay, for all you that want quiet bikes. I would like to ride by and throw dirt on you then get off my horse and do it again. I pay with my time, energy to help keep areas rideable and this is the place only one in the whole world where I can make my own rules for once. No lights, sirens, etc. I can make my own reality. Don't ruin it. And as far as mister bill well, it's time we all take back what is rightfully ours in every way of life. That's why the constitution allows us to bear arms to take back what's ours incase things should go wrong. Yes even if it is from within and it's time for a civil war again. :)

  • PMAUST

Posted July 14, 2003 - 03:48 PM

#24

Hebrews4 15 please read my signature. Thanks, Paul

  • Baalgad

Posted July 14, 2003 - 04:50 PM

#25

Hebrews, you should get a job in politics... your poll combines two separate statements that are mutually exclusive into a single vote item. The conclusions you draw are therefore likely erroneous. You CAN care and not be a member of those off-road organizations, as one earlier poster noted, or it CAN be that both statements apply to a single person, but how can you tell that from your poll? I fear many here miss the point that your (yes your, not mine) BRC representative no doubt understands - that to adapt to survive is essential starting politics when dealing with a stronger "foe". Friends are yet to be made to form coalitions that may support his/our cause. If people who care about sound quality, nature's intrinsic value, open space, sharing of the land in a harmonious and "ideally" equitable fashion are green, what color are some of you? what color is selfish? :)

  • Hick

Posted July 14, 2003 - 07:09 PM

#26

If people who care about sound quality, nature's intrinsic value, open space, sharing of the land in a harmonious and "ideally" equitable fashion are green, what color are some of you? what color is selfish? :D



Excuse me, but &%$#@! is "sound quality" ??

You sound like a politician yourself.

"Nature's intrinsic value" :D

"Harmonious" :D

Your choice of words is a bit Orwellian, if that is a word.

"What color is selfish?" :)


You mean to tell me that we can ascribe a color to selfishness?


What in the sam hill are you talking about fella?



BTW this is just a rhetorical / mercy reply. No need to respond unless you promise to do so in a rational, logical manner.


Discourse is mauve.


















Or is it taupe?





:D

  • DR.Zaius

Posted July 14, 2003 - 07:51 PM

#27

I don't wander into Yamaha territory very often, but for what its worth...(probly not much!)

"Less Sound = More Ground." If you take it litterally, Hebrews and others, yes this is a fony statement...or atleast not entirely true. I highly doubt that if everyone in these great forums slapped on some 92db pipes for the rest of their riding career, we would actually "gain" significant land from previous closures.

But if you believe that "Less Sound = MOre Ground" is false because of those reasons, you are close minded! It's just a catchy expression that sends a general message, a good one I might add. Basically, if you're gonna ride on public land keep the bike quiet!

You are correct in that keeping it quiet is not the ONLY way to keep what little land we have left, but its CLEARLY the easiest to observe by basically everyone. The second thing that probably stands out to most is not treading lightly (IE ripping up all the trails) but I guess thats a whole other can of worms, so to speak.

Personally I do believe that loud bikes are very annoying, IF you're not riding them! Have you ever tried to have lunch in the woods, like a BBQ, or whatever you're doing, and have some dick rip by at the rev limiter with a straight pipe? It's aggravating, plain and simple. Of course if you are the one riding the bike, it's not so bad at all because more than likely you want to ride it like that. I also think that sound is the #1 priority that needs to be addressed, and that quiet pipes are the future whether you like it or not.

And to everyone thinks that their satisfaction is top priority and that they have every right in the world to ride a loud bike, maybe you do have the right to run a straight through pipe. But step "outside the box" for a second, and think, what's the point of having a loud bike? People, riding is (for the most part) a recreational activity, and you don't need that extra couple horsepower to have fun. Trust me on that! I know for a fact I could have just as much fun on an almost silent XR200 as on a CRF450, if not more. Unless you race competitevely on an MX track, you don't need that extra power, nor do you need the extra noise to win!

So, I guess the bottom line is, you can keep on riding with your straight pipe and HELP all the eco-nazi's in their main arguementive point, or you can fight them and keep the bike quiet. IMO "Less Sound = More Ground" is absolutely something that is not to be ignored. Keeping the bikes quiet may not open up your old favorite riding spot, but it just might keep your new riding spot open. Which do you chose? :)

PS Don't anyone take offense to anything I said, just rambling on. :D

  • Brian_in_Long_Beach

Posted July 14, 2003 - 09:08 PM

#28

Good point. My point: if the Ranger disagrees with you, who wins that argument? It is bad legislation because it puts the onus on the operator, and the determination up to a single Ranger. They could have set up a certification program for pipes, much like the USFS Spark Arrestor certification. Surely somebody thought of that.


It's really no different than a equipment violation ticket in that regard. If the violation is severe enough your car/steet bike can be impounded on the spot. In the case of a noise ticket for an OHV you're told to go away until your bike passes the requirement.



I should have been more specific and said a four stroke motocross bike. I guarantee you that to get a YZF or CRF to 96 Db is going to sacrifice a hell of a lot more than .5 HP. Try 4 or 5.

98 or 99 Db is a much more reasonable output. These aren't #@$% passenger cars...


Somewhere in my magazine article collection I have Dirt Rider/Dirt Bike/whatever's test on YZ426 exhaust systems. I don't remember the absolute data but I seem to recall that best hp improvement was ~3hp somewhere in the upper range. The 'cost' of those ~3hp was something on the order of 3dB - 101 stock vs 104 (or louder) for the super whiz bang you gotta have it to win your local race pipe.

I believe KTM 400/450/520/525 EXC's meet the 96dB requirement. Does the SX version? Or what does the SX version measure? The technology is available today to meet the 96dB requirement w/o giving up much if anything on power. Take a look at Europe - they have a 92dB limit (I think) and those folks don't seem to have many problems going plenty fast. People have cited altitude as being an issue with the 96dB requirement and it's effect on performance at altitude. So what? There are other ways to get power w/o exceeding 96dB - try a larger displacement engine. Again, KTM520/525 has more power than a WR400/426/450? and passes the 96dB limit.

I prefer to have a noise standard that must be met by all bikes but doesn't tell me how to get there - ie displacement limit.

Time to go to bed......

Brian

  • endurodog

Posted July 15, 2003 - 02:54 AM

#29

People have cited altitude as being an issue with the 96dB



Your missing the point, its not that altitude has any effect on noise, its the effect with conditions on the loss of horsepower. Dunes, sandwashes, hillclimbs, altitude, ect. Some don't want to give up any horse power.

Again, KTM520/525 has more power than a WR400/426/450? and passes the 96dB limit.




So since were all independently wealthy we just spend $7500 on a new bike. Or the forest service could phase in management plan to allow the manufactures to develop the technology like in the car industry, or set more reasonable levels that allow for noise abatement and good power like the 99DB some suggested. Or even enforcement of the old standard, that was never tried and may have solved the issue.

Just couldn't sit on the sidelines any longer

  • John_Lorenz

Posted July 15, 2003 - 03:35 AM

#30

Baalgad
Don't need to answer you on this your statement, yours is erroneous in itself, you miss read the entire post entirely.

For the rest I want to ask a question or two.

If you were the opposition and wanted to know the condition of the enemy
What would you look for first?
1: Strength
2: Weakness
3: Division
4: No Leadership
5: 6 to 1 Fire Power
6: All the above.

I ask this to make a point. Step back and look at this post and the other posts regarding this issue 96db.

Look at it from the enemies perspective, from there point of view per-say. What conclusion would you come to regarding Our Side?

Would it Be
1: Confusion
2: Division
3: No Leadership
4: Disadvantage
5: 1 to 6 Fire Power
6: All the above

I have a word picture for all of this

Consider this, a man a wife and kids are driving to disneyland, the kids have the MAP, the Mom is asking for directions and the Man, well he does what he does best, ignores the directions and misses the Turn. All KAOS erupts, so instead of pulling over to figure out what went wrong, an argument starts on who's fault it is. The Mom blames the kids, the kids blame the Mom and well the Dad he does what he does best, and is asleep at the wheel hoping someone else will take care of it.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Merfman

Posted July 15, 2003 - 03:54 AM

#31

> People, riding is (for the most part) a recreational
> activity, and you don't need that extra couple horsepower
> to have fun. Trust me on that!

Oh boy, somebody else that knows what's best for ME,
my bike, and the conditions in which I ride.

> I know for a fact I could have just as much fun on an
> almost silent XR200 as on a CRF450, if not more.

I'm glad to hear that works for you. It doesn't for me.

> Unless you race competitevely on an MX track, you don't
> need that extra power, nor do you need the extra noise
> to win!

You try riding up a baby head infested hill climb at 12000'
ASL on a heavily restricted bike and get back to me, OK?

One question, does your '89 KDX200 have the stock silencer?

Merf

  • Baalgad

Posted July 15, 2003 - 04:29 AM

#32

I'm sorry I can't see the value of loud in a world of ever-closing spaces. Many of you seem intent on making this a personal challenge. Just to be able to respond to the criticism of my metaphoric point of view, I got up early, ran two laps around the apartment complex, sneaked in 10 minutes of my roomate's porn, and watched the complete Predator movie in my fatigues.
Yet, I feel somehow inadequate.
Mr. Hebrews, to dismiss my point of view so summarily is very egotistic on your part, don't you think? :)

  • John_Lorenz

Posted July 15, 2003 - 04:44 AM

#33

No I think it is practical to not answer. As far as your use of a metaphor a metaphor is the following:

1: A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles” or “All the world's a stage” (Shakespeare).

2: One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol: “Hollywood has always been an irresistible, prefabricated metaphor for the crass, the materialistic, the shallow, and the craven” (Neal Gabler).

This is why I choose not to respond to your statement that has no definition or clarity. I see no metaphor, cant relate to the porn sorry but I love the predator movies. You should rent Joshua Great Movie with Plenty of Metaphors

  • Baalgad

Posted July 15, 2003 - 04:55 AM

#34

gotcha :)

  • John_Lorenz

Posted July 15, 2003 - 05:18 AM

#35

Excuse me ?

  • MXOldtimer

Posted July 15, 2003 - 06:11 AM

#36

My track bike is LOUD!
After a few hours riding in the Dez or woods when I'm hot, tired, & cranky the last thing I want is a screaming pipe in my ear.

Posted Image

  • beezer

Posted July 15, 2003 - 07:12 AM

#37

Why don't you all shut up!

You people are giving me a headache. :)

  • Hick

Posted July 15, 2003 - 09:32 AM

#38

In the case of a noise ticket for an OHV you're told to go away until your bike passes the requirement.




Right. Exactly.





If I'm a Ranger who doesn't want you to ride that day, you don't ride, 96 Db or not. I could lock you out forever if I liked, and it would be very difficult for you to stop me.

Now, if I accuse you of not having a sparky all you have to do is point to the USFS reg. # stamped on the pipe and you trump my assertion.


A stock KTM RFS will not pass a 96 Db test. Nor will an FMF Q on a YZF, and that thing robs a lot of power, FMF's wildly exaggerated marketing claims notwithstanding.


I hate loud bikes also. My current bike has an aftermarket pipe because I need a sparky, but it is no louder than stock, might be a touch quieter actually. It is not nearly as obnoxious as your average aftermarket offering, but still a bit louder than your average two stroke MXer.

As soon as they design a pipe that will work well in conjuntion with my $6,000 race bike that is even quieter I'll jump on it. Until then it is a miscarriage of justice to deny me access to public riding areas because my bike is loud. How can I be made responsible for something outside of my control? I didn't make the damn thing, I just ride it.


My other problem with this law is that anybody who thinks noise is the issue is missing the point. This is about access to and control of public lands. Noise is just the latest tool being used to deny riders access, and nobody will ever convince me otherwise. It is just detracting from the core issue that we should be worrying about instead of how many #@$& Dbs my bike is putting out.

  • endurodog

Posted July 15, 2003 - 09:54 AM

#39

Hick wrote:

My other problem with this law is that anybody who thinks noise is the issue is missing the point. This is about access to and control of public lands. Noise is just the latest tool being used to deny riders access, and nobody will ever convince me otherwise. It is just detracting from the core issue that we should be worrying about instead of how many #@$& Dbs my bike is putting out.


BINGO!!!! :) Give that man a cigar

  • John_Lorenz

Posted July 15, 2003 - 10:06 AM

#40

We have another Convert, that has seen the light :)

So too speak




 
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