Getting used to a four stroke, hillclimbing.


19 replies to this topic
  • SEOINAGE

Posted November 19, 2010 - 04:33 PM

#1

So I am used to two strokes, top of hills I can just rev the crap out of the thing, and let the tire spin like crazy and keep up over the front and still climb. But these four strokes are difficult, tire won't spin, I get way over the front and get it to start spinning, but it doesn't have the screaming top end to keep it spinning, then it starts locking up and then my front end is coming up. Adjustments will have to be made, still I am doing fairly well with this bike. Just going to take major adjustments to how I ride. I tried one particular hill about 10 times, going as fast as I could, and every time didn't quite have enough to make the last little bit.

Well here is a picture of the day at least, fairly difficult climb, but made it on my second try

http://s1221.photobu...et_action=album

  • dgcars

Posted November 19, 2010 - 04:36 PM

#2

Try starting in 2nd rather than 1st gear....or 3rd instead of 2nd....know what i mean

  • SEOINAGE

Posted November 19, 2010 - 04:41 PM

#3

Try starting in 2nd rather than 1st gear....or 3rd instead of 2nd....know what i mean


eh? Not following you, lets say i start climbing the hill in 3rd. I get a good ways up and need to down shit to maintain my speed, I'm in second, and standing up over the front, tire wont spin, and front still comes up, and my speed is pretty damn good too, and as I lose that speed it just gets worse.

  • dgcars

Posted November 19, 2010 - 04:50 PM

#4

There is a thread running 'sitting or standing' have a read at this...hope it helps. Too many variables here to give an accurate diagnosis. Jeez...i'm not a doctor...:p
I'm the :thumbsup: by the way!!!!

  • SEOINAGE

Posted November 19, 2010 - 07:02 PM

#5

There is a thread running 'sitting or standing' have a read at this...hope it helps. Too many variables here to give an accurate diagnosis. Jeez...i'm not a doctor...:p
I'm the :thumbsup: by the way!!!!




Yeah I read that thread, thanks for your concern though. And there is no way I can keep my front end down on these steep hills without being up over the front of the thing, it is tougher to stay over the front on this bike that is for sure, ergonomics are a lot different. In the morning I am rotating my bars forward and lowering my shifter and back brake, i jam that brake all the time on accident and have to raise my foot to shift. Not going crazy with the handlebars but putting them about where they are on my old bike, I think that angle will help slightly.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 19, 2010 - 07:16 PM

#6

There is a way. It's called throttle control. With the 4 stroke, you can roll back the throttle with far greater precision that a two-stroke and get the expected result; a little less power, not the complete shut down you often get with a pinger.

  • mikedabike

Posted November 19, 2010 - 09:17 PM

#7

There is a way. It's called throttle control. With the 4 stroke, you can roll back the throttle with far greater precision that a two-stroke and get the expected result; a little less power, not the complete shut down you often get with a pinger.


+1 I find hills that I thought were tough on my 2-stroke are much less so on the 4.

  • SEOINAGE

Posted November 20, 2010 - 12:52 PM

#8

I'll admit most of these hills are easier on the four stroke, but you might not be getting my point.

Adjusted the rear brake pedal and shifter, has helped. Moved my handlebars to the front position on the triple clamp with the bar clamp offset to make it go further forward, rotated bars a half a point forward. Tested it out on some little stuff, much easier to stay forward on the bike now, although I might have the bars too far forward and could possibly flip the bar clamps.

Haven't been to the big hills i was at yesterday, but I think my problem is just the way four strokes are and will require adapting by me.

  • brentn

Posted November 20, 2010 - 01:17 PM

#9

You need to find where the engine makes the most power in the RPM range, if you ride enough you'll know. Tackle the hill at that particular RPM range in the appropriate gear and you'll climb.

It's easier with a two stroke because all you do is just give it WOT, all your power is in the high RPM's. With my YZ450 all my power is in the mid.
This is what I've experienced anyways, I've never had a four stroke before this bike..

  • SEOINAGE

Posted November 20, 2010 - 01:22 PM

#10

here's an old clip on my two stroke. notice at the top I get up over the front and spin the tire? I don't think riding like that with a four stroke will work the same, if I went to that hill I'm thinking i am going to lock up that rear tire and wheelie over, who knows though after the handlebar adjustment it seems to help me keep my weight up front, but four strokes power delivery is so different you can't just spin like that, wants to lock up and torque over.

http://www.youtube.c...u/4/foRD-ZHRtGA

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • mikedabike

Posted November 20, 2010 - 04:26 PM

#11

You spin the tire on a two stroke because you have to keep it on the "pipe" due to the narrow powerband. Fall off the pipe and it bogs and you lose your momentum and your done. With the four stroke's much broader powerband the same thing can be accomplished with proper throttle and clutch control without the need for all the wheelspin.

If the four stroke is wanting to loop out on you it is because you are not using proper throttle control. A four strok will spin up the rear if you want it to. Usually a spinning rear means your hill climb is about to come to a end.

  • SEOINAGE

Posted November 20, 2010 - 07:05 PM

#12

You spin the tire on a two stroke because you have to keep it on the "pipe" due to the narrow powerband. Fall off the pipe and it bogs and you lose your momentum and your done. With the four stroke's much broader powerband the same thing can be accomplished with proper throttle and clutch control without the need for all the wheelspin.

If the four stroke is wanting to loop out on you it is because you are not using proper throttle control. A four strok will spin up the rear if you want it to. Usually a spinning rear means your hill climb is about to come to a end.


I guess I don't get it, cause as the front end starts to lift I let up on the throttle slightly and if I keep doing that my climb eventually comes to an end, and a two stroke will spin spin and spin, and I can just give it more throttle and still keep moving. I guess I just need to go try this particular hill again with my changes I made and see if that helps me keep weight forward, and practice throttle control like you all say. I can manage slipping the clutch properly to keep moving when I'm in first and don't have any lower of a gear.

  • temporarily_locked

Posted November 20, 2010 - 10:09 PM

#13

if your over the front and on the gas a four stroke can spin almost the same as a two stroke.

  • mihaljcollege

Posted November 20, 2010 - 10:33 PM

#14

I recomend picking a nice high gear, and feather your clutch when you start to bog down, if you really desire a quick shot of roost.

  • SEOINAGE

Posted November 21, 2010 - 05:45 AM

#15

K i will see how it goes in a couple weeks when I have daylight and am not traveling or working.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 21, 2010 - 04:19 PM

#16

I think my problem is just the way four strokes are and will require adapting by me.

I think you're right. You're expecting your 450 to suffer from the same kind of breakaway wheel spin your pingers do. Ain't gonna be like that. Thumpers get too good a bite, and you'll have to run down a gear and use the throttle to keep the front down (or go faster and use the throttle)

  • fast frank

Posted November 21, 2010 - 05:24 PM

#17

my crf 450 had the same problem with the front end coming up on steep soft climbs, I was used to old school 4strks when the front got light you could just let off a little and then get back on it and keep climbing. The 450 crf when you let off thats pretty much where you stop (wheelie out flip chase back down the hill, or it chases you) You might try running your wheel all the way to the back of your adjustment in the swingarm, and maybe some more preload on the shock to keep it from squating as much.

  • 080

Posted November 22, 2010 - 07:34 AM

#18

I guess I don't get it, cause as the front end starts to lift I let up on the throttle slightly and if I keep doing that my climb eventually comes to an end, and a two stroke will spin spin and spin, and I can just give it more throttle and still keep moving. I guess I just need to go try this particular hill again with my changes I made and see if that helps me keep weight forward, and practice throttle control like you all say. I can manage slipping the clutch properly to keep moving when I'm in first and don't have any lower of a gear.


The 4strks require you to get more over the bars than the 2strks for this reason, but unlike the 2strks you won't need to keep the weight on the rear tire for traction (4strks find it). Take the approach you would with a 500 2strk and you'll have it (less throttle, more torq).

  • jar944

Posted November 22, 2010 - 10:13 AM

#19

If you are finding enough traction to loop out, you need one of three things: less throttle, more speed or slip the clutch when the front end gets light.

  • YamaLink

Posted November 22, 2010 - 04:16 PM

#20

I love screaming a 2 stroke up a hill, but the fear and adrenaline of a 4 stroke grabbing major traction makes me re-evaluate if I even should be on this way too steep of a hill. Front end UP!





Related Content

Forums
Photo

James Stewart back on a YZ450F by YamaLink


Dirt Bike   Special Interest Forums   Pro Racing
  • Hot  47 replies
Wiki
WR Camshaft Swap Info - last post by jamesm113

WR Camshaft Swap Info


Articles
  • 0 replies
Forums
Photo

Michigan Motocross Tires by 288yz450


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Regional Discussion   North
  • 1 reply
Forums
Photo

The "going back to the other darkside" adventure... by Monk


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   KTM   250/350/450/505 SX-F & XC-F (4-Strokes)
  • Hot  94 replies
Forums
Photo

Snake pit oct 30th by The Anvil


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Regional Discussion   California
  • Hot  293 replies
 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.