how to get the engine to start faster


88 replies to this topic
  • GCannon

Posted November 04, 2010 - 09:01 AM

#21

Not correct.

The spark occurs every time the engine is at TDC. The blue wire tells the CDI if the bike is in neutral or in gear. It advances the timing a tiny bit when in gear to cause the idle to be stronger to compensate for the drag of the clutch. I have found on a properly maintained and setup bike, there is no advantage to removing the blue wire. All bikes I work on start instantly, barely a rev with the E-button and not even a full kick with the kicker.


If you search post by " Thumperbloke" he had a mod where he disconnected one of the CDI box wires (I cannot remember which one) and then the motor would fire instantly at the first ignition event. similar to the way KTM's do for some reason yamaha interrupts the ignition event until it sees a certain amount of revolutions. Maybe they do this for cylinder clearing or kick back protection i don't know but his mod was successful in making the E-start much quicker and there for usefull for dead engine race starts. SJMC Don was also successful in using this mod for race starts.

Happy Searching

Edited by GCannon, November 04, 2010 - 09:20 AM.
Spelling


  • GCannon

Posted November 04, 2010 - 09:04 AM

#22

No, I am not talking about the blue wire :excuseme:

Read through this thread

http://www.thumperta...light=blue wire


Thats The one!

  • William1

Posted November 04, 2010 - 09:44 AM

#23

Thats The one!


Read the entire thread.

The 'third rev spark' is bunk. More likely it is due to low battery voltage and the inability to fully charge the CDI capacitors.

All that wire does is slightly alter the ignition timing. All it knows is if the bike is in gear or not. The CDI has no wiring to let it know if the e-button is being used. Study the bike wiring diagram.

If your bike needs the advanced timing the disconnected wire provides to start better, something else is amiss.

  • William1

Posted November 04, 2010 - 09:51 AM

#24

i was told I get an extra 25% hp at the rear wheel from my stickers ????that stinking lying sticker dealer !

well my bike starts on the first kick warm or the second if cold but it almost always worries me that it will go dead on the e-start when cold it cranks so much even fresh off the tender ( this is a stock just broke in 300 plus miles 3 month old bike absolutely no mods but the pea shooter removed.) what is my problem I can't seem to find anything searching?????


Could be a couple of reasons
  • Improper spark plug gap
  • Old fuel - Does not vaporize as well as new fuel.
  • 'Dry' carb - Choke passageways drain out when sitting and it takes some vacuum pulses to refill - Some lean the bike till a little fuel drips out the carb over flows to combat this.


  • climaxx dirtbikes

Posted November 04, 2010 - 12:32 PM

#25

could it be that I was told to run 50/50 race/93 fuel? Someone the other day told me that the bike would run faster on 93 pump gas anyway.?

  • William1

Posted November 04, 2010 - 04:07 PM

#26

Race fuel is very high octane. The higher the octane, the slower it burns in the engine, so yes, it can contribute. Run pump premium, you do not need anything more.

  • paul19513

Posted November 04, 2010 - 08:11 PM

#27

Could be a couple of reasons

  • Improper spark plug gap
  • Old fuel - Does not vaporize as well as new fuel.
  • 'Dry' carb - Choke passageways drain out when sitting and it takes some vacuum pulses to refill - Some lean the bike till a little fuel drips out the carb over flows to combat this.


well the carb is already a little lean, maybe you meant to richen the mixture , I got 300 miles on it this bike is only three months old so I doubt gas is an issue as i get new gas every ride and put the remainder in my pickup on the way home, one thing I didn't do is replace the plug after break in and have not had it out so I will look that direction , one other thing i may have a problem with is the battery this is a 09 model and I got it new late august 2010 so the battery may be bad from sitting in the showroom for a year without being started regularly . THANK YOU for the reply !

  • - Jake -

Posted November 05, 2010 - 03:37 PM

#28

well the carb is already a little lean, maybe you meant to richen the mixture

He means to physically lean the bike over at an angle.

  • paul19513

Posted November 05, 2010 - 07:12 PM

#29

He means to physically lean the bike over at an angle.


I am feeling really stupid at the moment:busted: thanks for pointing out that very obvious instruction out to me


edit : I still don't think that would be it though due to the fact that it still starts on the first or second kick cold, I haven't taken the battery in to be checked yet but I believe it is the battery I'll check / replace it in the next couple weeks and post

Edited by paul19513, November 05, 2010 - 07:44 PM.


  • William1

Posted November 06, 2010 - 02:43 AM

#30

Check the plug gap and the battery.

Not uncommon for the battery to be poorly put in to service and poorly maintained at the dealer. If you do ge a new battery, do not get a pre-filled one, get one you fill yourself (comes with "flutes" of acid). Follow the instructionjs exactly, evn take extra time, it makes a huge difference.

Battery should have over 13V bike off, 12.8, ignition on, bike not running, over 12.5 during cranking and 14.5 bike running

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  • climaxx dirtbikes

Posted November 07, 2010 - 03:56 AM

#31

I will check the voltage as well as plug gap asap. Thanks for the insight!

  • climaxx dirtbikes

Posted November 07, 2010 - 03:58 AM

#32

Gotcha Thanks!

  • GuyGraham

Posted November 07, 2010 - 12:17 PM

#33

The dead spark revs you talk of do not exist. If you study the wiring diagram, there is no way for the CDI to know of what method is being used (kick or button). A weak battery may mimmick some missed sparking as the system is low on voltage and therefore be construed as 'by design' thing.


mine suffers from the delayed starting on the button, but starts very easy on the first kick

William, I studied the wiring diagram and it appears to me the CDI does know when the button is being used
When the button is pressed, a -ve feed is created to the CDI via the L/W at item 10 on the wiring diagram, which changes into L/B at item 6 & then changes back to L/W at the cdi (item 11) side of the connector
What I'm trying to say is that the L/W wire that come out of the CDI is connected to ground only when the magic button is pressed

Surely the ignition advance when in gear is determined through the Sb coloured wire(cdi side of connector) which goes down to item 13 neutral swtich as L/W or Sb (USA or ROW resp) and hence gets a-ve feed depending if it is gear or not

Edited by GuyGraham, November 08, 2010 - 04:39 AM.


  • GuyGraham

Posted November 13, 2010 - 08:45 AM

#34

Well, I've tried it today, with & without that blue/white wire connected

With it disconnected it starts instantly, every time

The two dead cycles claim is indeed true, when starting on the button

Mine is staying disconnected now
This is really gonna help me get a better start - I was contemplating having to use the kick to get it to start faster, but this has sorted it out now

Many thanks to the tribalic for pointing this out

  • dgcars

Posted November 13, 2010 - 11:53 AM

#35

When you mention the trottle screw i assume you mean the air screw (bottom of the carb bowl. Set this as per thread detail. Adjusting this will have no effect to your top end. Take methodical steps to cure your problem. Understand that your carb controls air/fuel mixture thru' out its rev range...pilot/idle circuit......needle/middle circuit....Main jet/WOT.
Keeperlit.......

  • paul19513

Posted November 17, 2010 - 04:16 PM

#36

I had the battery checked today and it is bad . so there's my problem.

I went riding today had it on the charger all lastnight and it went dead on the first try at the trailhead so I was kicking all day .

  • paul19513

Posted January 07, 2011 - 11:22 PM

#37

ok update : battery still goes dead on the e-start w/ new battery , I guess I should have bought a Yz cause I kick this anyway. looking into blue / white wire , and have checked plug gap, valves , timing all that stuff and still have issues on the e-start but first and second kick even when cold

  • Strattos

Posted January 09, 2011 - 02:29 PM

#38

Mine normally (and since brand new) spins over roughly twice, or at least that's what it sounds like, before it fires up.

It's exactly the same every time - like clockwork. Thought that was normal as well. Never let me down yet.

  • GuyGraham

Posted January 10, 2011 - 05:02 AM

#39

Mine normally (and since brand new) spins over roughly twice, or at least that's what it sounds like, before it fires up.

It's exactly the same every time - like clockwork. Thought that was normal as well. Never let me down yet.


disconnect the blue / white wire out of the cdi and it'll fire instantly - guaranteed

  • beezer

Posted January 10, 2011 - 09:33 AM

#40

Interesting.

I'll have to try it.




 
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