how to get the engine to start faster


88 replies to this topic
  • climaxx dirtbikes

Posted October 25, 2010 - 01:02 PM

#1

I own a 07 450 but only has approx. 25hrs on it. I want to know how to get it to start faster with the elec. start. It usually has to turn over a couple revolutions before it actually starts. My buddies 06 250 starts with just a bump of his elec start. Can i change anything to make it better? (Jetted, fmf exhaust and all free mods)

  • William1

Posted October 25, 2010 - 01:40 PM

#2

You can make sure the fuel screw setting is perfect, your fuel is 100% fresh and your battery in perfect condition.

  • YamaLink

Posted October 25, 2010 - 01:41 PM

#3

What are the carb specs, jetting etc, and what is your elevation?
Battery new with bike?

  • homer2000

Posted October 25, 2010 - 03:43 PM

#4

Mine does exactly the same thing, takes a while with the electric start, mines brand new, like it sinse it came from the dealer, thought it was just normal the way it starts,

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 25, 2010 - 05:36 PM

#5

- Engine needs to break in a bit more
- Jetting needs to be correct
- fuel screw adjustment
- good fuel

  • tribalbc

Posted October 25, 2010 - 07:08 PM

#6

On the estart it only fires on I think it's every third stroke, a couple strokes to build compression. Do a search on the blue/white wire mod in this forum.
Basically there is a blue/white wire at the CDI box that can be disconnected to make the estart fire on every stroke. This is DIFFERENT than the grey wire mod.

  • WideRatio

Posted October 25, 2010 - 07:25 PM

#7

Are you pulling the hot-start lever?

  • homer2000

Posted October 25, 2010 - 08:14 PM

#8

When I start mine I don't hav the hot start in, not when it's cold, when it's hot I use it, still the same,
and I've done 700 km on mine roughly, surely be breaked in now

  • climaxx dirtbikes

Posted October 26, 2010 - 02:58 AM

#9

I am thinking it must be the throttle screw but dont know. It was missing on the top end recently at two turns out with the throttle screw from jd jetting. That being said I turned it one quarter more and it seems to be a bit better on top end but same starting. 50/50 racing fuel and 93 octane. Fresh battery, cant remeber the jetting specs. Something like mj48, pj ? 3rd clip down on red pin. 0-4000ft elevation.

  • William1

Posted October 26, 2010 - 03:52 AM

#10

On the estart it only fires on I think it's every third stroke, a couple strokes to build compression. Do a search on the blue/white wire mod in this forum.
Basically there is a blue/white wire at the CDI box that can be disconnected to make the estart fire on every stroke. This is DIFFERENT than the grey wire mod.


Not correct.

The spark occurs every time the engine is at TDC. The blue wire tells the CDI if the bike is in neutral or in gear. It advances the timing a tiny bit when in gear to cause the idle to be stronger to compensate for the drag of the clutch. I have found on a properly maintained and setup bike, there is no advantage to removing the blue wire. All bikes I work on start instantly, barely a rev with the E-button and not even a full kick with the kicker.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • William1

Posted October 26, 2010 - 03:55 AM

#11

I am thinking it must be the throttle screw but dont know. It was missing on the top end recently at two turns out with the throttle screw from jd jetting. That being said I turned it one quarter more and it seems to be a bit better on top end but same starting. 50/50 racing fuel and 93 octane. Fresh battery, cant remeber the jetting specs. Something like mj48, pj ? 3rd clip down on red pin. 0-4000ft elevation.


Throttle screw??? Do you mean fuel screw? There is a right and a wrong (atually many wrong) ways to set it. You set it for a perfect idle with a hot engine than leave it alone.

You hard starting is caused by the race fuel. Your bike does not need it and in fact, it causes it to have less power. It is only needed on very high compression engines with wild cams.

  • tribalbc

Posted October 26, 2010 - 06:13 AM

#12

Not correct.

The spark occurs every time the engine is at TDC. The blue wire tells the CDI if the bike is in neutral or in gear. It advances the timing a tiny bit when in gear to cause the idle to be stronger to compensate for the drag of the clutch. I have found on a properly maintained and setup bike, there is no advantage to removing the blue wire. All bikes I work on start instantly, barely a rev with the E-button and not even a full kick with the kicker.


No, I am not talking about the blue wire :excuseme:

Read through this thread

http://www.thumperta...light=blue wire

  • climaxx dirtbikes

Posted October 26, 2010 - 06:24 AM

#13

Yes fuel screw, Sorry. So I can run straight 93 and be better off? Figures. The dealer just trying to make an extra buck.

  • William1

Posted October 26, 2010 - 06:27 AM

#14

He is incorrect. My WR, no modded wire, fires instantaneously on the e button. That wire he is referring to is the neutral switch wire that slight changes the timing. Check the wiring diagram.
Out of the CDI there is a L/W (Blue with White trace) that changes at the plug to a L/B (Blue with a Black trace). There is a second wire that leaves the CDI as a SB (Sky Blue) and changes in the plug to a L/W (Blue with White trace). Why they change the colors is a mystery. But in any case, The first goers to the main switch for power, the second of the above mentioned wires (Blue with White trace) in the main harness goes to the neutral switch.
There are no wires that go from either the E-button or starter relay to the CDI.
Did you read GrayRacers Comment?

Now, when you hit the ebutton, if your battery is not 100%, voltage drops. It may drop low enough to not fully charge the capcitors in the CDI and mis-fires of the plug can result. I've seen many bikes that crank but will not start because of this.

  • William1

Posted October 26, 2010 - 06:31 AM

#15

Yes fuel screw, Sorry. So I can run straight 93 and be better off? Figures. The dealer just trying to make an extra buck.


Yes, run fresh 93.

Making the extra buck and sadly, probably clueless as well. Over my involvement in motorsports in the last 30+ years, probably 80% of the experts I have met really are not experts (mostly tools). And the real experts I have met are simply amazing.

Race gas makes people think they are fast. Unless you have already done every performance modification in the book and need that extra bit, then it begins to make sense. For almost all riders, race gas is like stickers on your truck (no offense intended for those that run stickers)

  • William1

Posted October 26, 2010 - 06:32 AM

#16

Climaxx - Here is the correct way to set the fuel screw and select/confirm your pilot jet:

Fuel screw settings in the 'book' are recommended starting points. Every bike is different, as is the temp and altitude. Set the screw according to this method. Do it with the bike fully heated up.
Gently turn the screw all the way in. Now back it out two turns. Start the bike and fully warm it up, go for a 10 minute ride. Set the idle to speed to 1,500~1,800 RPM as best you can (I know, without a tach this is tough, just set it to were it idles relatively smoothly). Once warmed, slow the idle to the lowest possible speed.
*** When turning the fuel screw, keep an accurate 'count' of the amount you are turning it and record it in case you have to reset it for some reason. Makes life easier when you can just set it from notes Vs. going through the procedure again.***
Turn the screw in until the idle becomes rough or the bike stalls.
if it stalled, open the screw about 1/4 more turn. Restart it and slowly screw it in till you can just perceive a change.
If the screw can be turned all the way in and the bike still idles perfectly and does not stall, then you need to go down a size in pilot jet.
Now very slowly, open the fuel screw till the idle is smooth. Blip the throttle, let the bike return to an idle, wait say ten seconds. Confirm it is the same smooth idle.
If the screw has to be opened more than 3 turns to get a smooth idle, you need to go up a size in pilot jet.
If you find it does not stall with the larger jet but has to be open more than three turns with the smaller pilot jet, put the larger one in and set the fuel screw at 1/2 turn.
If the idle speed increased, adjust the idle speed knob to return the bike to a real slow idle speed. You must then re-visit the fuel screw. Keep doing this till the fuel screw is opened just enough to provide a nice steady idle at the lowest possible RPM. Once this is done, increase the idle speed to the normal one for your bike, typically about 1,800 rpm, but go by the spec in your manual.

  • climaxx dirtbikes

Posted October 26, 2010 - 01:53 PM

#17

Great! Thanks William1. I will do this as soon as i get a chance!

  • SJMC_DON

Posted October 26, 2010 - 03:06 PM

#18

I don't want to argue with William and all I have is seat of the pants experience on two 07 + WR's but the blu wire mod as described in the thread tribalbc linked to has worked for me.

I'll swear by it and have proven it by systematically connecting and disconnecting again the wire without any jetting changes or adjustments. I am not versed enough in the wire diagram to speak of exactly the process or program that takes place, all I know is the bike fire instantly with the wire disconnected vs. 2 - 3 dead revs with it connected.

Proper JETTING is still key to the end result but I believe the mod to have merit.

I also have no negative side effects in riding and racing the bikes hard with this mod...

It won't hurt anything and is certainly a lot faster and/or easier to do than jetting changes on this bike:thumbsup:

  • William1

Posted October 26, 2010 - 04:15 PM

#19

I have no doubt it could make starting easier. It provides a slightly advanced ignition timing.
It does not make a diffference if using the ebutton or kicker. If it was hard to kick and Ebutton, and now it Ebuttons easier, it will kick easier too.
My experience is that a perfectly set up bike, it makes no difference on starting. I do know if I disconnect the wire, my idle rises a few hundred rpm, reflect the change in ignition timing.
There will be no damage by having it disconnected. You will want the idle set to be correct when the bike is in gear, clutch disengaged. You will have a higher idle in neutral, your bike will have a tendency to have the hanging idle.

The dead spark revs you talk of do not exist. If you study the wiring diagram, there is no way for the CDI to know of what method is being used (kick or button). A weak battery may mimmick some missed sparking as the system is low on voltage and therefore be construed as 'by design' thing.

  • paul19513

Posted November 03, 2010 - 10:12 PM

#20

Yes, run fresh 93.

race gas is like stickers on your truck (no offense intended for those that run stickers)


i was told I get an extra 25% hp at the rear wheel from my stickers ????that stinking lying sticker dealer !

well my bike starts on the first kick warm or the second if cold but it almost always worries me that it will go dead on the e-start when cold it cranks so much even fresh off the tender ( this is a stock just broke in 300 plus miles 3 month old bike absolutely no mods but the pea shooter removed.) what is my problem I can't seem to find anything searching?????




 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.