AliveInMyOde is NOT wrong
Posted July 03, 2003 - 04:13 PM
I’m sure; AliveInMyOde paid a handsome tax when he bought his WR. He continues to pay taxes for gas, oil, gear, parts and the privilege to ride on public lands. Not to mention federal income taxes which are given to conservation groups to sue the forest service to close even more areas and create wilderness areas. There is no reason AliveInMyOde shouldn’t have the RIGHT not privilege to ride on public lands. To say what AliveInMyOde did was wrong, is to say our forefathers at the Boston Tea Party were wrong. Dirt bikes are not taxed at a lesser rate than other motor vehicles and we do pay an outrageous tax to access public lands in comparison to mountain bikes, camping, hiking, horseback riding and etc. In a growing number of cases these OHV taxes are used to close public lands to those who pay the tax “US”. In Colorado thousands of OVH tax dollars have been spent on several hundred 4” steel poles and miles of ¾” steel cable to “permanently” close thousands of acres. The fact one can father children doesn’t make a man. Principles make a man.
I really like the loony, lefty, liberal, B.S. religious counter reply. Hard core liberals have been using the religion card for years on pro death-penalty political views. Really this thumpertalk member doesn’t ride DIRT? You’re a member of a far leftist group? Be honest no one likes a liar. Faith in god has nothing to do with riding a dirt bike on public lands while paying TAXES to maintain such lands and more to do with taxation without equal representation.
My advice to you, AliveInMyOde, is to plea bargain the ticket. Show up for your hearing, if the DA doesn’t want to plea bargain your case, go before the judge plea guilty, sincerely apologize for your actions. Get creative; ask the warden if he feels his vehicle does more damage than your dirt bike. At least you’ll leave the courtroom receiving something for your money, even if it’s just the DA’s and Judge’s time. After you win or lose, your punishment, write your two senators, one house rep, one state senator, one state house rep, governor and join an OHV club that sues the government for your rights. Explain your views on public lands, taxes, let them know you plan on voting in all elections (AND DO IT), spread the word “DIRT BIKE RIDING IS NOT A CRIME”.
Lastly get involved the four guys who bashed you aren’t looking out for you or your neck of the woods.
Posted July 03, 2003 - 04:45 PM
Posted July 03, 2003 - 05:25 PM
If you take my response to AliveInMyOde as bashing your sadly mistaken.
I think perhaps you'd be better served rereading my replies to him regarding his thoughts and intended actions again.
I'll tell you the same way I told Pavelcod a while back. All any man carries around with him is his REPUTATION, nothing else. See this post
The fact one can father children doesn’t make a man. Principles make a man.
I've never claimed to be either a great father or a preacher but I've learned a lot in my 44 years on this planet. The biggest thing I've learned is gaining respect from your peers is earned, its never given as a door prize to some Johnny come lately. I gave Alive my thoughts on his thread exactly as I felt without any hesitations or reservations and would post them to any TT member regardless of his or her age or standing in our society.
Riding on public land is a Privilege not a Right, just as getting a drivers license is the same thing. If you believe the opposite to be true why don't you try riding on some other public land like a Marine Corps Air Station or an Army Base.
I think he even admitted knowing it was wrong to ride there in a later post regarding this thread.
Wrong is wrong especially when you know its wrong. This has nothing to do with taxation without representation or unfair duties on imported products.
Posted July 03, 2003 - 06:49 PM
What you did to AliveInMyOde is a typical liberal tactic. Make him and everyone else feel bad for what was done. In the mind of a liberal, civil disobedience is only a bad thing unless it’s a liberal doing it.
Reputation I disagree; a man doesn’t carry REPUTATION with him. REPUTATION is someone’s perception of him. I can move to a new town and establish a totally new reputation, but my principles remain the same. A man truly only carries his principles with him. Principles are defined as Main beliefs, Values, Philosophy, Ideology, Morality, Ethics, and Doctrine. You can try and change my principles by making me feel bad for what AliveInMyOde did, but when I posted this message I knew a thick skin would be required and my principles remain the same. I suggest further readings of Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. If you don’t like reading watch The Patriot with Mel Gipson.
Heard the baby-boomer theory many times, “I’m older than you, know more and don’t challenge my ideology”. Well I’m a GEN-X’er mid thirties and love to challenge old thought, especially liberal thought, because it’s wrong for America. Just look to Europe it doesn’t work. The 1960 Multiable Use of Public Lands Act did give us the RIGHT to use public lands for recreation use. Now because of environmentalism and others (hint) who give up ground, the government makes multiable use a privilege. Why because public lands now don’t belong to the public, it belongs to government.
The 1960 Multiable Use of Public Lands Act says nothing about Military Bases. Your comparing apples to oranges, good try.
REALITY CHECK. This has everything to do with money, power and taxes. I don’t know what planet you clam to have lived on for 44 years, but on planet Earth politics is all about power, power is gained from money and money is gained through taxes.
Posted July 03, 2003 - 07:05 PM
Chill a little, go back and read the "loud bikes" thread, and then get on your soup box.
Society is made up of "men" who have common thoughts and goals for the most part. It is called democracy. Yes politics involve money, but ask any politician in a moment he won't lie, and he will say it is give and take.
Kinda like TT members who I assume ride or have ridden who can't agree.
What you propose is lawlessness, and that is fine if you let me ride in your backyard, hunt at your momma's house, and shoot your windows out...etc, etc.
Get my point?
Posted July 04, 2003 - 02:56 AM
I’ve read many threads on “load bikes”, banning of two strokes (coming to your area 2006), road less incentives (coming to your area) and wilderness areas (your area has many). Since 1996 after Clinton’s reelection to a second term there’s been a whole lot TAKE and very little give.
I’ve proposed nothing lawless and again, like huskyrider, your comparing apples to oranges, public lands to private property. The B.S. your throwing against the wall doesn’t stick and makes no sense. As a cop you should know that in Colorado if you shoot at any house the first response from the owner will not be to ask you to stop, we call it “make my day law”. Next your going to tell me, the guy who buys 35 acres next to National Forest with well-established trails and builds a $500,000 house should have the surrounding 1500 acres of forest closed to the public because of noise from dirt bikes.
What I’ve proposed is “activism” get out the word DIRT BIKE RIDING IS NOT A CRIME and we’re not going along with the notion that it is. Don’t support OHV type groups that have give and take policies, support the groups that sue government for rights. This lesion we can learn from our environmentalist friends. Don’t vote for politicians who have a give and take policies, let him/her know it, and DO IT.
People cannot play both sides of the fence anymore, we see through it and seriously question your true motives. Lastly for treecop next time you drive 75 in 65, do a rolling stop through a stop sign, fail to signal a turn, ride with bald tires etc. etc. etc., remember it’s lawless, write yourself a ticket or lookup in the dictionary HYPOCRITE.
Posted July 04, 2003 - 04:38 AM
What I was trying to do was tell him is:
1- running away from your responsibility is wrong.
2- never do anything that shines an unfavorable light on our sport.
3- when caught red-handed, take your punishment.
IMO the problem with some of our nations children is they were never taught that they alone are responsible for their actions. Johnny did a bad thing, but we're not going to punish him. Instead we'll coddle him and everything will be better.
As a child I contemplated heavily before I did something I knew was wrong, is this worth the whipping I'm gonna get if I get caught. And if I got caught and lied or ran away I got twice the whipping I would of got before. I'm not saying the way my dad raised us kids was right or wrong. I've raised my children the same way because it's the only way I know. I believe it must be working, I've had several other parents tell us how well mannered and respectful our children are. Now matter who or how heavily anybody may debate this I wouldn't be convinced otherwise.
The beauty of our society is we can do anything we want within the confines of the law. And when we break these we must be held accountable.
Maybe you read something else into my reply to Alive. Everybody interprets things differently.
Have fun, Kelly
Posted July 04, 2003 - 04:54 AM
I find this post intriguing to say the least. Although I did not read the original thread from Ode, I assume it was based on a Ticket and breaking the law. (Update) I did read it, Huskyrider was not offensive, Ode took responsibility, I am glad to see he is a young Christian man. God Bless Ode you did right by acknowledging your error.
But what intrigues me most is the View points of what is a man? That is what I am reading "Inside" the intent of the post.
First attacking another's position or beliefs by "I really like the loony, lefty, liberal, B.S. religious counter reply" shows a closed mind to alternate ideas and or opinions.
But with that let me say this on the Man thing. What or who is our example of a real man, in my case it was a dad who was in the home but never there. No touchy no feely no shown affection to my mom nothing. In fact my dad introduced me to his world by handing me a beer at 9 years old. Don't need to go any deeper then that, bear with me I will get to my point.
We are the image of our fathers as men, we are trained by watching our pops do there stuff all of our lives. We long for there approval, we long to be accepted, but our pops say, Don't Cry Real Men Don't Cry, Suck it Up Boy. A mans word is all he has and so on.
Sound familiar? I am not saying that our pops are bad men or bad examples. I am saying they had no example to go by either.
Anyway here is my point and my "religious counter reply"
In My opinion Only NO, In a biblical, Spiritual Truth a man is the Image of God. Hebrews 4:15 & 16 states (BTW MY Favorite Verse) 15: For we have not an High Priest which cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities; but was tempted like as we are, yet without Sin.
16: Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in a time of need. (KJV)"
What has this to do with being a man, simple, Our God was a Man at one point in his existence, he was and had all the passion, frustration and hardships as a MAN presented to him growing up. This means he had all the things we deal with every day as a man. BUT REMAINED SINLess. What an example of what a man should be. Christ was no pushover or pansy to say the least, he was the image of his Father.
So what is a man?
A man is Christ Like.
Thats all I have to say on this. I know I will get roasted on this, but the thread asked for a reply and I gave it.
Posted July 04, 2003 - 05:47 AM
Razz, it's plain that you have a political point to make, but I think it has very little to do with Alive's story. The law may be unjust and need changing, but do you really think running from the cops is the best form of political pressure or some kind of noble civil disobedience? Of course not, from what I can see in his posts, not even Alive' thinks so.
To point him in the right direction or even flame him (if you think it went that far), was to help our cause; The 'be a man' statement was probably not meant to be a theological foray into creation so much as to urge him to show some responsibility and accountability for his actions. By doing so we are better armed to defend our side. We will be much better equipped to change the laws or get elected ourselves if we just show a little respect, responsibility, and courage. Political progress won't be made by using punks with evasion records as our finest and most righteous examples.
Posted July 04, 2003 - 06:37 AM
I think you got the true message I was trying to send Alive.
Bashing and/or flaming his thread was never my intention. I'm confident the majority of the others who read this thread also got what I was trying to tell him.
I wasn't an English major in college but I do have a good grip on expressing myself in written form. But, just as I told Razz, people interpret things differently.
Have fun and a great 4th of July weekend.
See Ya, Kelly
Posted July 05, 2003 - 07:18 PM
It's me the hypocrite!
I can tell you I do more for our sport than you. I can tell you I spend more time talking to people who disagree with our sport than you do. I can tell you I take a firm ground in ALL the meetings I attend for work and on my own for our sport. I can tell you that you sit on the sidelines and whine about the "liberals" etc, more than getting off your rear, reaching down and grabbing your little pair and doing something about it.
Life is always going to be unfair to you because everyone is out to get you and your way. Live with it.
I can also tell you I will chase you and your friends down, even in the dark, by myself, find you, wrestle you down because you ran, and write you a ticket or arrest you.
Because mine are bigger than yours.
Posted July 06, 2003 - 03:44 AM
Typical cop response. Bet if I were a cop you would look the other way. I would expect nothing less. To you everyone on this board is a secondary citizen to you and yours. Your point has been made and understood.
When Lady Justice puts her blindfold back on and treats all has equals, I’ll respect the law and those who enforce it. Until then if the law and those who enforce it are WRONG I still have a constitutional right to voice it and will. If you didn’t want to hear don’t listen.
Next you’re going to ask fellow bikers to turn each other in. Are you sure your not working with the Seria Club in parallel, you know trying to play both sides of the fence?
Posted July 06, 2003 - 03:51 AM
People with little balls like to become cops.
Hey look at me I have a gun and a badge!
I am finally somebody!
Posted July 06, 2003 - 07:12 AM
Society is made up of "men" who have common thoughts and goals for the most part. It is called democracy.
Except we dont live in a democracy, but a represenative republic. A democracy is actually mob rule. Imagine if 51% of the population wanted to tax the 49% and distribute the wealth among the 51%, they could do it in a democracy. A democracy is not a form of goverment that will survive, when the people realize they can vote themselves money from the treasury, they will bankrupt it--Karl Marx
Posted July 06, 2003 - 07:14 AM
Posted July 06, 2003 - 10:15 AM
I’ll start a new thread called “Think harder are we making progress yet?”
Posted July 06, 2003 - 10:34 AM
Posted July 06, 2003 - 11:43 AM
What I’ve proposed is “activism” get out the word DIRT BIKE RIDING IS NOT A CRIME and we’re not going along with the notion that it is.
ANd I also read that motorcross is now the #2 motorsport in the US (in popularity) only second to NASCAR and the ATVing, including quadding, 2 wheeling etc has grown in users by 150% every year for the last 3 years. This is good, as we become stronger as a group, we can have more pull and lobbying in Washington DC. A drawback is over use. We need more areas and to respect the public lands we use. Another thing I find is the 2 wheeler guys and the 4 wheeler guys are always at each others throats, and the mountain bikers, hikers, horseback riders, hunters, fishermen, PWC and snomobiles. We all have one thing in common, we need public land to to use. Oh, and dont forget to vote, if your not registered, get it done! Your congressman or your 2 US senators or any of your state represenatives wont listen as well if your not registered. All of them have meail address, so emailing them can be easy too. In fact, you should have all your represenatives in you directory, join the Blue Ribbon Coalition and when they send you a congressional alert, act on it ASAP. The NRA is a prime example what a powerful lobby group can do.
Posted July 07, 2003 - 05:01 AM
You strike me as one of those guys that gets pulled over and manages to talk himself into jail instead of out of it. Alive was wrong for doing what he did. But at least he took his medicine (even if that wasn't the plan).
We do need to fight the land closures but we need to do it within the confines of the law. Authority isn't evil. I am sure that any of the cops, or wardens (treecop) would be happy to take your onesided, word twisting veiwpoint out for a taste of the real world.
I get a very special veiw of the world from my vantage point as a collections manager, the cops get to deal with the absolute scum of the earth on a daily basis....I will forgive a cop/sheriff/warden if his/her view of the world is a bit jaded. It happens you can only be lied to so much before everyone becomes scum just in order to protect yourself mentally and physically.
Do you realize that a game warden is the most dangerous law enforcement positions in existence? They are out in the middle of the woods, no backup close by, with people that have guns/weapons, that don't like them!?
So unless you are a cop, and have taken it upon yourself to protect the public from the crazies, you should probably refrain from insulting the people who are keeping me and mine safe.
I know I will probably get flamed for this but, so what.
Posted July 07, 2003 - 12:49 PM