So Cal WR suspension tuner


55 replies to this topic
  • DaveJ

Posted October 19, 2010 - 11:05 PM

#21

PM me if you want details



Hey...it's a public forum....let's hear it. Spit it out. :excuseme:

I'm standing right here. I can take it. I think...:smirk:

Did I take too long? Fluid too weird and stinky? Too stiff? Too soft? Not enough rebound? Did the stickers fall off?

I thought from your previous posts/threads that all was well. It was a sweet set-up, all be it a lot more aggressive than stock.

But seriously, I'm more concerned about getting to the truth and correcting anything that needs correcting. So...very curious.

  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted October 20, 2010 - 06:40 AM

#22

Hey...it's a public forum....let's hear it. Spit it out. :excuseme:

I'm standing right here. I can take it. I think...:smirk:

Did I take too long? Fluid too weird and stinky? Too stiff? Too soft? Not enough rebound? Did the stickers fall off?

I thought from your previous posts/threads that all was well. It was a sweet set-up, all be it a lot more aggressive than stock.

But seriously, I'm more concerned about getting to the truth and correcting anything that needs correcting. So...very curious.


I recall that he was "impressed" and "very happy"


  • Timo2824

Posted October 20, 2010 - 09:01 AM

#23

Krannie,

he's the one that sets up all of the GNCC WR's and knows his stuff.

Good luck.

John


A thing to remember about the GNCC WRF's is they run the YZF suspension front and rear as well as the newer swingarm.

  • grayracer513

Posted October 20, 2010 - 09:31 AM

#24

Did the stickers fall off?

I hate it when that happens. :excuseme:

  • tribalbc

Posted October 20, 2010 - 09:43 AM

#25

I hate it when that happens. :excuseme:


That happened to me :smirk:
:lol:

  • jayh300

Posted October 20, 2010 - 09:50 AM

#26

That happened to me :smirk:
:lol:


mine are still on.... ( i think the installer double stuck mine on ):excuseme:

  • 123BigcoopDawg576

Posted October 20, 2010 - 09:53 AM

#27

That happened to me :lol:
:lol:


Me too but my suspension guy gave me free replacement stickers :excuseme:

Im sure DaveJ would do the same :smirk:

  • beezer

Posted October 20, 2010 - 09:56 AM

#28

I don't get my suspension revalved.

I feel the stickers are all that's needed.

Bling is king.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 20, 2010 - 11:03 AM

#29

Hey...it's a public forum....let's hear it. Spit it out. :excuseme:

I'm standing right here. I can take it. I think...:smirk:

Did I take too long? Fluid too weird and stinky? Too stiff? Too soft? Not enough rebound? Did the stickers fall off?

I thought from your previous posts/threads that all was well. It was a sweet set-up, all be it a lot more aggressive than stock.

But seriously, I'm more concerned about getting to the truth and correcting anything that needs correcting. So...very curious.


I don't think it's entirely fair to air my dislike of the fork and shock rebuild, as I never sent them back for 'adjustments' after trying several things to improve the basic ride quality. That would have been the next step in the process. I just felt the suspension was so far off the mark that perhaps I made a poor decision.

I was never able to get it ride-able enough to fine tune for wheel tracking or handling.

I was not willing to wait another 4 months to have any changes done, when I thought I was very clear on what I was looking for. I stated that I was happy because I believed the job to be very thorough and professional. I assumed the problems I was having were outside the suspension; fork binding, riding attitude, clicker settings etc.

After turning fork and shock clickers to "0", I still had no real suspension under 10 mph. It was effectively rigid in the front. Small bumps and rocks would rip the bars right out of your hands. There was also no static sag in the front forks. They were topped out all the time. A non-professional suspension enthusiast friend of mine believed the wrong springs were installed, that were 50mm too long. I don't know.

To be fair, the bike was sold (couldn't resist the offer) and probably could have been corrected without much effort on Dave's part. I was just done with that bike, besides the suspension.

So you know, I have been tuning my own suspension since 1979, and have raced amateur desert, trials, and motocross. I am not a newbie to the MC. I have had my CRFR, CRFX, RM, XRR and XLR's all tuned by ESP, Barnums, Enzo, and PC.

I currently have an '07 450, and I have just ordered stiffer springs, to begin with. The bike is SO much better than the '03 in every way, yet feels the same too.

  • DaveJ

Posted October 20, 2010 - 02:57 PM

#30

I don't think it's entirely fair to air my dislike of the fork and shock rebuild, as I never sent them back for 'adjustments' after trying several things to improve the basic ride quality.


Fair to who? Me?

Since I'm the one asking for feedback I don't think you have to worry about being fair or not. When someone is not fully satisfied with something I did, the biggest mistake that could be made is not finding out why it is not working. I don't skimp or do things unprofessionally so I have nothing to hide. I could have made a mistake somewhere....but given the simplicity of the design, I doubt it. There just may be something here that is more technical than the usual issues.


I was never able to get it ride-able enough to fine tune for wheel tracking or handling.

I was not willing to wait another 4 months to have any changes done, when I thought I was very clear on what I was looking for. I stated that I was happy because I believed the job to be very thorough and professional. I assumed the problems I was having were outside the suspension; fork binding, riding attitude, clicker settings etc.

After turning fork and shock clickers to "0", I still had no real suspension under 10 mph. It was effectively rigid in the front. Small bumps and rocks would rip the bars right out of your hands. There was also no static sag in the front forks. They were topped out all the time. A non-professional suspension enthusiast friend of mine believed the wrong springs were installed, that were 50mm too long. I don't know.


Ah...so good information. :excuseme: Thanks!

So obviously something was not right. I mean, this is a set-up that is very similar to what I run on my open bath KYBs and there are more than just a few guys on the forum that have a similar design in their bikes, all with positive outcomes.

Now..this clearly does not mean that it's a matter of preference. I truly believe that something was seriously wrong here. I mean, for them not to sag is a clear indication of some serious binding.

The one major red flag on this one was the level of wear and the type of wear on the suspension when we received it. When I go back and look at the service record there were things that had to be corrected that don't normally need to be.

So what came back was very different than what we took in...and in more ways than one. Big changes, and perhaps there were problems that we failed to see.

50mm of preload? Not a chance. So perhaps we need to get some more details on what that suspension guy saw or thought he saw. But I would certainly not let a fork go out with 50mm of pre-load on it. 5 or 10...yes, but not 50.


To be fair, the bike was sold (couldn't resist the offer) and probably could have been corrected without much effort on Dave's part. I was just done with that bike, besides the suspension.

So you know, I have been tuning my own suspension since 1979, and have raced amateur desert, trials, and motocross. I am not a newbie to the MC. I have had my CRFR, CRFX, RM, XRR and XLR's all tuned by ESP, Barnums, Enzo, and PC.

I currently have an '07 450, and I have just ordered stiffer springs, to begin with. The bike is SO much better than the '03 in every way, yet feels the same too.



I think I can understand your frustration and with all things considered, moving on was perhaps in the cards. Big changes between an 03 and an 07. And...not every bike works for every rider.

With that, you spent a good chunk of change on something that didn't work for you and I carry a good portion of that responsiblity. Yes, we could have gone back and fourth and such but you most likely didn't have much faith in the whole thing, given what led to this.

I have spoken once with the new owner but I can't remember what they had called about it. I don't think it was anything obvious. Perhaps I'll get it back into it at some point and see if I can find out what's going on with it. Perhaps there's a bent tube or something. :smirk:

With that, I'll cover you on springs and fluid and seals and bushings and such on the new machine. Just make a list of what you need and want and I'll send it down and you can either do the install yourself or have someone local take care of it for you. Please take advantage of this.

Thanks again for everything and hope to hear from you soon.

Dave

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • grayracer513

Posted October 20, 2010 - 03:17 PM

#31

... you spent a good chunk of change on something that didn't work for you and I carry a good portion of that responsibility. ...

With that, I'll cover you on springs and fluid and seals and bushings and such on the new machine. Just make a list of what you need and want and I'll send it down and you can either do the install yourself or have someone local take care of it for you. Please take advantage of this.

Dave

How can you beat that?

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 20, 2010 - 03:57 PM

#32

Fair to who? Me?

Since I'm the one asking for feedback I don't think you have to worry about being fair or not. When someone is not fully satisfied with something I did, the biggest mistake that could be made is not finding out why it is not working. I don't skimp or do things unprofessionally so I have nothing to hide. I could have made a mistake somewhere....but given the simplicity of the design, I doubt it. There just may be something here that is more technical than the usual issues.




Ah...so good information. :excuseme: Thanks!

So obviously something was not right. I mean, this is a set-up that is very similar to what I run on my open bath KYBs and there are more than just a few guys on the forum that have a similar design in their bikes, all with positive outcomes.

Now..this clearly does not mean that it's a matter of preference. I truly believe that something was seriously wrong here. I mean, for them not to sag is a clear indication of some serious binding.

The one major red flag on this one was the level of wear and the type of wear on the suspension when we received it. When I go back and look at the service record there were things that had to be corrected that don't normally need to be.

So what came back was very different than what we took in...and in more ways than one. Big changes, and perhaps there were problems that we failed to see.

50mm of preload? Not a chance. So perhaps we need to get some more details on what that suspension guy saw or thought he saw. But I would certainly not let a fork go out with 50mm of pre-load on it. 5 or 10...yes, but not 50.





I think I can understand your frustration and with all things considered, moving on was perhaps in the cards. Big changes between an 03 and an 07. And...not every bike works for every rider.

With that, you spent a good chunk of change on something that didn't work for you and I carry a good portion of that responsiblity. Yes, we could have gone back and fourth and such but you most likely didn't have much faith in the whole thing, given what led to this.

I have spoken once with the new owner but I can't remember what they had called about it. I don't think it was anything obvious. Perhaps I'll get it back into it at some point and see if I can find out what's going on with it. Perhaps there's a bent tube or something. :smirk:

With that, I'll cover you on springs and fluid and seals and bushings and such on the new machine. Just make a list of what you need and want and I'll send it down and you can either do the install yourself or have someone local take care of it for you. Please take advantage of this.

Thanks again for everything and hope to hear from you soon.

Dave


Dave

I knew that you would make a generous gesture towards this situation, and that was one of the reasons I was reluctant to post anything: I was not proactive enough to consider the work a failure, so I don't feel owed anything.

However! :lol:

I would like to take you up on your offer, in some manner. I have springs in transit right now, and the bike only has 75 miles on it, so the stock suspension components are not in need of replacement just yet!

Thank you Dave, and I'll be in touch.

  • JDLowrance

Posted October 21, 2010 - 05:04 AM

#33

I don't get my suspension revalved.

I feel the stickers are all that's needed.

Bling is king.



"Click It" and "Stick It"

  • DaveJ

Posted October 21, 2010 - 10:35 AM

#34

"Click It" and "Stick It"


To some degree, yes.

And yes, we all know of some really fast riders that do just fine on a stock suspension.

Additionally, given the fact that there are a lot of shops out there charging $500 to $900 to do nothing more than tune a suspension by way of moving a few shims around, you are indeed better off with just the stock set-up and some fresh oil every now and then.

However, there are two exceptions to this.

First, the Japanese did not do everything correctly and there are some situations that can get you into some serious trouble if and when things don't always go as planned. So a proper suspension can be a life saver.

Secondly, if and when you ever get on a really good suspension, (and I mean "good") you'll know why certain riders seek out proper suspension designs with a vengeance. It really does separate the men from the boys.

  • YHGEORGE

Posted October 21, 2010 - 03:33 PM

#35

To some degree, yes.

And yes, we all know of some really fast riders that do just fine on a stock suspension.

Additionally, given the fact that there are a lot of shops out there charging $500 to $900 to do nothing more than tune a suspension by way of moving a few shims around, you are indeed better off with just the stock set-up and some fresh oil every now and then.

However, there are two exceptions to this.

First, the Japanese did not do everything correctly and there are some situations that can get you into some serious trouble if and when things don't always go as planned. So a proper suspension can be a life saver.

Secondly, if and when you ever get on a really good suspension, (and I mean "good") you'll know why certain riders seek out proper suspension designs with a vengeance. It really does separate the men from the boys.

Dave, you could not be more spot on. I had "PERFECT" suspension on my last bike and have had poor to bad on my current bike. Have had four tuners give it a try with lots of $$$ down the drain. The best work was by a local for a fair price but it still was no where close to what I knew was possible. Three natl "gurus" told me I was the problem after a couple stabs and made it clear I would be wasting my time and shipping $$$ to go further. None had the courtesy or professionalism to offer an adjustment of the fee. Once you find that sweet spot you can't ride with less. Still searching.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 21, 2010 - 05:50 PM

#36

Dave, you could not be more spot on. I had "PERFECT" suspension on my last bike and have had poor to bad on my current bike. Have had four tuners give it a try with lots of $$$ down the drain. The best work was by a local for a fair price but it still was no where close to what I knew was possible. Three natl "gurus" told me I was the problem after a couple stabs and made it clear I would be wasting my time and shipping $$$ to go further. None had the courtesy or professionalism to offer an adjustment of the fee. Once you find that sweet spot you can't ride with less. Still searching.


That's what I have with the tuned Showa's on my X. Nothing has come even close, yet.

  • JDLowrance

Posted October 22, 2010 - 03:38 AM

#37

To some degree, yes.

And yes, we all know of some really fast riders that do just fine on a stock suspension.

Additionally, given the fact that there are a lot of shops out there charging $500 to $900 to do nothing more than tune a suspension by way of moving a few shims around, you are indeed better off with just the stock set-up and some fresh oil every now and then.

However, there are two exceptions to this.

First, the Japanese did not do everything correctly and there are some situations that can get you into some serious trouble if and when things don't always go as planned. So a proper suspension can be a life saver.


Secondly, if and when you ever get on a really good suspension, (and I mean "good") you'll know why certain riders seek out proper suspension designs with a vengeance. It really does separate the men from the boys.



'Click it and stick it' was a joke based on a previous post (which is the extent of what some tuners are capable of).

I'm in the get it right camp.....that's precisely why mine went back to FC 4 times before I was happy (mind you, all subsequent trips free of charge).

John

  • DaveJ

Posted October 22, 2010 - 08:32 AM

#38

'Click it and stick it' was a joke based on a previous post (which is the extent of what some tuners are capable of).

I'm in the get it right camp.....that's precisely why mine went back to FC 4 times before I was happy (mind you, all subsequent trips free of charge).

John




:excuseme::thumbsup::smirk:


Now we need to Krannie happy. The boy is long overdue. :lol:

  • beezer

Posted October 22, 2010 - 09:35 AM

#39

I think sticker placement is the most important part of the whole deal.

1/4" off and the suspension just won't work.

  • GCannon

Posted October 22, 2010 - 09:38 AM

#40

Always a pleasure when BEEZER shows up!:excuseme:




 
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