Race Gas or Super

65 replies to this topic
  • teamtoxic

Posted March 15, 2001 - 05:56 AM


There's an article in the April Dirt Rider about jetting I just read. The guy that was in the article explained how to get good when trying to dial in a carb. He's worked on carbs for some 20+ years and in the article, he states that you DON'T NEED TO USE RACE FUEL in a stock bike. That's how I've always understood it; you only need race gas if you've had engine work.

If you have the April Dirt Rider, the article is somewhere in the last 10 pages of the magazine. Take a look for yourself...


  • flyinguitars

Posted March 15, 2001 - 06:09 AM


Thanks Rich, that what I was expecting someone to say, but I still wanted someone to say it. Ive been using Sunoco ultra 94 octane pump gas with stock jetting and I beat the crap out of everybody that I ride with. When my friends ride my 426,they cant believe how fast and powerful it is..Im still amazed by its power and speed, plus the added bonus of pulling up to the gas station and pumping right into the tank. Jeff, I agree 100%....I'll gladly use the extra money to cover beer, pizza, and wings after running pump gas and whipping my pals on the track...

  • Rich_Rohrich

Posted March 15, 2001 - 06:38 AM


Just for the record.

Personally I would NEVER run pump gas in a YZF or WR (stock or modified). The throttle response, ease of hitting precise jetting, and the tolerance for atmospheric changes more than outwiegh the costs. But that's just me :)

  • DaveJ

Posted March 15, 2001 - 09:35 AM


Rich!!! Where have you been...man??!!!

Have they been giving away modesty with all that race fuel?!

Got to go...have some reading to do.


  • Clod_Thrower

Posted March 15, 2001 - 07:13 PM


What about octane boosters I can get at the auto parts store? Some will treat 20gal & they are cheap. Will they hurt my 426?

  • Boit

Posted March 15, 2001 - 11:20 PM


Michael: And I thought it was just me. I scratched my head and made my bald spot considerably larger.. :)

By the way SUNruh, I've NEVER used anything except race fuel in my 426. C-12, Sunoco Standard, and Sunoco GT Plus. I'm still shopping.

[This message has been edited by Boit (edited 03-16-2001).]

  • AngryCandy

Posted March 16, 2001 - 05:39 AM


...and the great fuel debate goes on...

All I want to add is that IF you are going to run pump gas in your bike, find a big-name station that gets a ton of traffic.

Using the big name (Sunoco, Exxon/Mobil, Amoco, etc.) will give you better odds that you are actually getting what you are paying for (and not a lesser quality than advertised.)

The high traffic stations ensure that the fuel hasn't been sitting around for months upon months.

  • Arizona_Jeff

Posted March 16, 2001 - 05:51 AM


So I should'nt use kwiki wiki hotdog and gas stop anymore?

  • Michael

Posted March 16, 2001 - 07:06 PM


Boit: I'd have to rub my nose to increase the size of my bald spot! :) Oh well - you might try the C-14, seems to work well in my WR 426. I am still sorting out the jetting after changing to the YZ jetting with an EKN needle. It runs stronger, but seems to stumble just a bit at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle . Just still have some work to do.

  • yzf

Posted March 18, 2001 - 02:13 PM


i have a 99 yz400 with a 426 piston and cyl with a ported and polished head ive never tried race fuel .the bike runs great never pings. ive had the bike three years with no problums and i live close to sea level .i'll take all the money i saved buy not running race fuel and put it to a new bike why would you waist your money on race fuel why not spend it on a riding school like i did, or get your sus done

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Dan_Lorenze

Posted March 20, 2001 - 07:05 AM


Guys, This posting got me curious about race gas, I havnt had time to read everyone's post's on this matter but I have read some. Its seems alot of you know ALOT about different kinds of gas.
This weekend I decided to try 100 octane (labeled "race gas")found at my local Union76 station. I have a stock WR426 with a Procurcuit T4. I thought I was in for a treat but insead I found myself kicking and kicking and kicking the bike to get it started. My bike normally starts on the first kick. I never used my hot-start so much. Also my bike was not as fast as im used to (trust me) it just wasnt. Would I get better results with VP or trick fuels? For now I will use the cheaper better gas for my bike and thats just plain ole' super unleaded! See yall, Dan

  • Rich_Rohrich

Posted March 20, 2001 - 07:56 AM


Generally speaking, race gas tends to vaporize at lower temps and will usually require rejetting to realize it's advantages.

Race gas from a common ground tank is a crap shoot at best, and isn't worth the trouble. If that's your only source then sticking with standard pump gas is probably a wise decision.

[This message has been edited by Rich Rohrich (edited 03-20-2001).]

  • wpattison

Posted March 20, 2001 - 12:32 PM


holy cow! what a conversation. all i am going to say is:

me: tccra 4-stroke expert class runner up two years in a row. +30 intermediate motocrosser. dellusional spode.

bikes: '98 yz 400 with 180 hours- mostly racing- on it at sale time. currently a '99 yz400 and a 2000 426. the only motor mods i ever do is pipes and flywheel weights.

gas: super unleaded from the most convenient location. always. never tried race gas.

problems: zero.

crack pipe: the biggest one i can find. it helps me forget how many guys are faster than me.

conclusions: i will keep using the fuel that i do. roeseller certainl rides harder than i do, but i couldn't disagree more with the statement that these bikes won't survive on pump gas. given my experience, i couldn't justify the expense of race fuel for even a proven 1 hp gain. i still need to learn to ride faster with the power i have.

will pattison
racer, engineer

  • SUnruh

Posted March 20, 2001 - 12:43 PM


face it Will, you suck! :)
man! you would have been champ if you had used race gas. i know your spodely ways all too well. that's why i nicknamed ya "lightspeed".

imho, i like the better throttle response i get with C12. yes, i can tell a difference.

  • Rich_Rohrich

Posted March 20, 2001 - 01:18 PM


The idea that these engines won't survive on pump gas is clearly FLAWED, but they are more fun with the right fuel. I figure the money I've saved by NOT buying one of the excessively loud poorly engineered aftermarket pipes more than pays for my fuel usage :)

  • MrMXer

Posted March 20, 2001 - 08:48 PM


Hey Rich, Are you familiar with Torco racing fuels? I use their 110 mixed 50/50 with Amaco 93. It's a carryover from my 2-stroke days. I found that using their 110 mixed 50/50 with Amaco 93 and Torco GP-7 mixing oil kept the power valves clean and free of sticking back then. How do I know if it is a good fit for the Thumper and is mixing 50/50 with Amaco 93 an Ok thing to do?

HomePage www.eagle-racing.com

  • Rich_Rohrich

Posted March 21, 2001 - 06:14 AM


I've never used the Torco fuels, but I've talked to a number of people who have been very pleased with the Mach 110. The specs LOOK correct so I would imagine you'd be happy.

As for mixing. I think there is some value to that when people are trying to raise the octane of a fuel to stop a knock problem. In most cases the YZ/WRs don't need the octane increase so the remaining advantages that come from using race fuel are quickly lost when you dump constantly varying pump fuel in it. In the end I guess it comes down to your testing and trying to determine if the 50/50 mix shows any return on the investment. In an engine that isn't knocking on pump fuel I've never really found a 50/50 mix to be worth the trouble.
Let us know what you find.

  • JBM

Posted March 21, 2001 - 01:12 PM


Originally posted by Rich Rohrich:
I figure the money I've saved by NOT buying one of the excessively loud poorly engineered aftermarket pipes more than pays for my fuel usage :)

I couldn't agree more, although I use pump gas for now.

  • Scooter426

Posted March 22, 2001 - 01:30 PM


The bottom line here is that, in a given engine, a fuel that doesn't knock will produce the same power as most expensive racing gasolines -Rob Tuluie

I have found this to be true, and Dr Rob could not have stated it any clearer

  • Rich_Rohrich

Posted March 22, 2001 - 02:29 PM


There is no question that the power produced will be the same (under about 6000rpm), but you'll see far from the same response, or ability to jet the engine sharp. Above 6000-7000 rpm the CORRECT race gas will usually make more power, but the difference tends to be small. In the case of oxygenated race fuel and high energy fuels the race gas will show a substantial power increase.

It's interesting to note that Dr. Tuluie is running Nutec fuel (a high energy race fuel) in the Tularis. Ole Dr. Rob is a pretty sharp dude :)

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