34 replies to this topic
  • Tom_N

Posted February 20, 2001 - 05:21 PM


Interesting stuff for sure.. I am sorry to have read all this stuff and to see your post bigmike. I know you got blasted for something you had nothing to do with but to say you don't care about service or your customers can not be true. I work in Customer Service for a very large company (about 15 billion a year large)that is known world wide as a leader in service - Why ?? Because that is what it's all about, not price, not selection but SERVICE if you don't have it I recommend you research what it is and get it..

Here is what my local yam dealer did for me..

I bought a used 98 YZ400, the valves were pretty loud so I took it in and asked for a valve job... They called back said the valves were spec but the knock was coming from a bad connecting rod, so I trusted and said replace. Well over the next week, they called said oh yea you need a piston, ok, called again we need to rebuild your crank, well ok and then oh yea a timing chain too.. oh ok I trust you guys.. Well after 2 months of waiting and $1200 they finish my ride. Well I pick it up and it still makes the same knock it did when I took it in.. The head mech said oh 4-strokes are just loud like that.. again I trusted him but yet knew better in the back of my mind.. Well I rode it melow for about 3 hours for a little breakin even thought the mech said I didnt need to. Then I changed the oil, filter, plug and flushed the radiator in prep for my first hare-scramble (oh yea this is my first off road bike- riden street for about 12 years) any way rode in the hare scramble for about 30 or 40 min. taking turns with my partner as it was a team event... I rode like a girl.. hey I am a rookie.. Well had fun though.. took the bike home again dumped the oil, cleaned the filter and got it ready to ride again. I was at my local track riding for about 20min when it just died. When I tried to start it no compression a valve was stuck open.. So a bit angry I took it straight back the shop where I was greated like a criminal... They said we will just have to tear it appart and find out..

Well they called me about 4 days later and said that "I" bent a valve. "I" did I replied, how did I do that.. Must have been over reving they said.. I said but what about the rev-limiter and they said oh your bike does not have one... thats when I said I will be right there as I knew I was being taken for a ride.. Went to the shop and it did infact have a bent valve.. I said so my bike does not have a rev limiter and he said yep and I said I thought that was part of the CDI and he back peddled like a big dog... I still had to pay for the valve replacement and labor but what do you know they replaced that valve and it was as quiet as could be when I got it back not like the first time.. Well if I would have gotten the valve job I asked for instead of being raped I would not be sharing this story. Best yet I looked at the receipts for all the parts and compared them to the retail prices I downloaded from HMLS online and sure enough I paid full #@~$ retail for them. I have not and will not ever go to that shop again. Its the only yam shop in town and I will give up riding before I go back!

Good luck staying alive and in business if you defraud your customers or can not provide quaility serivce. The rule this coutry was founded upon was "ALWAYS LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER, AS THERE WILL ALWAY'S BE SOMEONE WHO CAN DO IT BETTER AND CHEAPER THAT WILL PUT YOU OUT OF BUSINESS"

Whew, said my peace..

  • aftershock

Posted February 20, 2001 - 05:42 PM


Man, I think BigMike hit a nerve. This has to be the longest post I've read.

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted February 20, 2001 - 06:02 PM


Hey BigMike,
I'm with you. I'm a business owner also. I have no employees, sometimes my wife helps out, but mostly it's all on my shoulders. It seems like anymore all customers want is more and more for nothing. Hey I'm trying to make a living but people think I'm rolling in cash when nothing could be farther from the truth. There are months when I make nothing. I think Overthebars is a good candidate for smoking a LOT of weed. Mellow out dude!!!!

  • BigMike

Posted February 20, 2001 - 07:08 PM


Bottom line is I support my customers. I ride with many of them. I don't expect them to kiss my ass as I shouldn't be expected to kiss theirs. I respect them and deal with them fairly. If one comes in and wants something for free or below what it costs me I tell them I can't do it. Point blank I can't afford to lose money on anything. Its business. I was there at my shop till 9:30
tonight finishing up a bike for a guy so he
could ride tomorrow. Everything over thebars is saying about his perception of me is not fact. He wants it all for free, wants people to go out of their way to support him and not be compensated FAIRLY. Not happening in my shop. Fair price, Quality work, Respect for my customers. I support fully those who support me. Those who purchase mail order and buy is their right...but it is my right to decline to give them the same support as those who deal with me and my shop. Its like the kwik lube baby...19.95
gets you the basic oil change....31.95 gets your windows and carpet cleaned. Basic business principles. You get what you pay for.

  • YZThumpa

Posted February 20, 2001 - 07:23 PM


BigMike, I'm with you as a consumer and a business owner. As a consumer, certainly someone may get a cheaper price from some mailorder joint who doesn't have to support or back up their transaction like a local dealer would. Just package it, send it, and adios customer. I don't know d**k about bikes so when I even want a new chain or new bars I will load my bike in the trailer, haul it to the shop, let them put the stuff on, and gladly pay accordingly. For the guys who can buy it mailorder and do it themselves, more power to them. But the service you need to provide is a different sort and consumers like myself are happier for it. Surely when I go to an expensive restaurant I could walk in with a canned Coke in my pocket that I bought at the convenience store for 50 cents rather than pay 2 bucks for it in the restaurant, but that is not why I went to the restaurant. I will pay my 2 bucks for my Coke, let the waitress serve it to me, and let her refill it when it gets low. A service has been provided for a fee. Get the point? As a business owner of a different sort, it works the same way. I am a dentist. New fee-for- service insurance plans want me to cut my fee by 40%. If my overhead is already 60%, how could I earn a living doing this. How does the dentist down the street survive on this type of plan? Easy. He sees 35 patients a day and runs an assembly line, taking 5 minutes for a procedure that should take 20 minutes. Reduced fee, but not the same service. You get what you pay for.

  • 4banger

Posted February 21, 2001 - 01:38 AM


I support my local shops as much as I can, but all five of them are outrageously priced. If I didn't have the big discount I get, I would never buy from any of them. Tires are 80 to 90 bucks, which their cost is 40 to 45 bucks. Mail order the tire is 55 bucks. You ask for brakes for a kdx and they have to order them. Why? I guess they think kdx brakes are a hard sell!! That is why most people buy on line. I can look at the part in a catalog and order it whenever I want. It comes to my door and I don't have to keep calling or visiting the dealer to check on the part. There is a huge markup on parts and the availability of parts in a dealership is usually limited. I believe mailorder competition has been keeping some dealers honest and the prices relatively fair. When I get a price from my parts guy, I will show them a mailorder mag and see if they can match it. If they can't come close, I will mailorder it. I make sure I let them know that they are losing business by overpricing everything. And a shop rate of 50 to 58 bucks an hour. C'mon. If I need shop services that I can't do, then I talk to one of the mechanics and they will usually do it as a side job for 25 bucks an hour. Some people will pay any price for their hobby, but I am not a sucker. I do value good service and tech support, but most dealers don't provide this either.

  • BigMike

Posted February 21, 2001 - 02:14 AM


Several good points made. Concerning huge mark up....not the case. I can site you specific examples and I will let you pick the type article. Most parts past $30-$40 will yield 30-40% above that margin is even less.
Now customer will say 30-40 thats alot. HeHe
not after you pay for the lights. I am thinking about starting a program at my shop of matching all magazine ads. Has to be cash up front, no credit cards....(1.6% +.20 trans fee Cuts my profit). Do you think anyone would take me up on it? I order parts for guys in my shop without payment all the time.
Phone call and I order. You see alot of the parts through mail order you pay shipping. Order the wrong part you get restock and return shipping cost. If you are good and lucky yeah you get it cheaper. How about You place an order and find out day before race while waiting for UPs that part was backordered. I let you know while you are at
my counter because any part that is anywhere near going to be critical in delievery for a
rider I call while he is there. Thats brings up aniother topic. Unless you are in the business or have been in the past you don't know all the in's and out's of purchaseing of bike parts from a distributer. This is my business I know it well I know the profit necessary to keep the lights on and support
my shop. Is it exorbitant...well maybe for the BIG shops but I am a ONE MAN Gang.
Guy comes in yesterday, never seen him before. Has a 98 rm 125 cylinder. Wants me to look at it and tell him if its ok to just
replace piston. Look at cylinder and check it out. Tell him plateing is perfect just touch hone and clean power valve replace parts and go. I ask him do you need a piston. He says
Well I ordered it from MEGA MOTO. I ask him
how much did they charge you? He tells me and its $6 +shipping more than I charge. I tell him next time give me a chance and that way
when you need advice like I gave you for FREE
it will be worth my while. He left thew cyl for me to hone, clean power valve, clean gasket surfaces. So I made a little . POINT
is GIVE a shop a chance to perform. If they bone you ...drop them and go elsewhere. SUPPORT THOSE THAT SUPPORT YOU FAIRLY.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Tom_N

Posted February 21, 2001 - 05:56 AM


BigMike you are not the bad guy here its the nature of most shops and the type of market.

As for your last post with your idea of matching prices - GREAT IDEA!!! I would buy from no one else!!

The company I work for is sells the same merch as many discount chains however we sell it for ALOT more. How we do it is by providing the best service, we put a 1 year satisfaction garuntee on everything, we deliver for free/pick up for free we deliver your supplies same day or next day.. so yes the customer pays a little or a lot more but gets service way beyond anyone else..

Anyway as for your idea, price matching mail order is fantastic, I would suggest that you don't make it cash only but rather factor in a fixed % of 5% to cover the shipping charges they other guys have to pay. They other thing is keep in mind in most mail order they don't have to pay tax either so matching it dollar for dollar will be tough.

The simple fact you will be willing to work with your customers demonstrates to them a commitment to earn and keep their business and thats what its all about. however you do it, just trying to meet your customers somewhere in between will be a great thing!

Go for it!!

Tom N.

  • overthebars_again

Posted February 21, 2001 - 06:24 AM



In retrospect, I should have never submitted that reply. I guess I was totally out of line. Sorry guy.

I always give the local shops first shot at my business. If they don't have what I need and I can't wait, or if the particular item is so overpriced then hey bro, I'm a smart shopper and I'll go elsewhere.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what the heck got into me and apologize to all for being such a dick.



  • 4banger

Posted February 21, 2001 - 10:27 PM


I think cash up front is a great idea. It keeps everyone honest. I always pay up front, so I don't have to worry about the money later. Being a one man shop is different from the big dealerships. Around us, there is a huge markup. At least 30 % and up to and beyond 100 to 200%. I didn't believe it either until I had a friend of mine in the shop buy at Yamaha stuff at dealer cost. It was frightening. I think a set markup is also a great idea. That way you as a dealer know what to expect and the customer does also. I don't mind paying more for something, but there is a limit. Most dealerships personnel are not certified mechanics or parts guys. Many of them are just regular guys who work for the dealer. They don't know the nomenclature and often order the wrong parts. I am no parts whiz, but I seem to know the names and descriptions of parts much better than most of the parts guys I deal with. I always look at the microfiche and point to what I want. I have been burned to many times before.

  • BigMike

Posted February 21, 2001 - 12:10 PM


Don't sweat it big deal. Have had days where I would have reacted the same way.

Originally posted by overthebars_again:

In retrospect, I should have never submitted that reply. I guess I was totally out of line. Sorry guy.

I always give the local shops first shot at my business. If they don't have what I need and I can't wait, or if the particular item is so overpriced then hey bro, I'm a smart shopper and I'll go elsewhere.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what the heck got into me and apologize to all for being such a dick.



  • techman

Posted February 21, 2001 - 01:07 PM


Hoooo doggy! That's a lot of load off a lot of people's chests!

Good thing it' all words of opinion. In some places issues aren't solved by airing them in intelligent discussion. I've learned from it, and I wasn't even there!

Now just to get my pulse back down ... Aaaahhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm... Aaaaaahhhhmmmmmmmmm (the Zen thing, at least in spirit) ....

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted February 26, 2001 - 10:50 PM


been on a little road trip down south for my first dez race of the year
My comp goes belly up and I come back to this.
Did not mean to start sh** amongst everyone.
Just very frustrated with
and wanted everyone to see this particular incident b4 anyone else ends up in the same situation as me.......HYPER-SPORTS

COLORADO SPRINGS dont buy from them

I went to my local dler and they had it to me in 2days but ONE INDUSTRIES failed to fill the entire order!
nothing like salt in the wound!!!!!!
My friend lent me a black fender for the hurricane kit and it is "TIGHT"

Anyway cudos to my local dealer.
this was during the honda sale of late in which they sold 150+ units in 6 days and they still managed to make time for ME
I just thought I would try mail order again and made a big mistake.............I have had such bad luck w/local dlrs in the past year that i just got sick of the attitudes that they dealt out. belittling bas#*%s!!
that was my only prob w/ locals.......and the 40-50% mark up........ My friend in SEAttle told story after story about screwing the dumass that PAID for the $60 fork gaurds..........
now I have found a local that sincerely cares about "helping" the customer instead of th all mighty $$$$$$$$$$

Looks like im gunna have to chang my signature


ride BLUE

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted February 26, 2001 - 10:55 PM


Oh yeah almost forgot...............
the order was for about $350-400 and it was know what that means.....
They never bothered to call me to tell me that these things were on backorder.
not one phone call........
I myself managed to track down the # to ONE INDUSTRIES and asked what the skinny was....
why couldn't they have done the same....?
after all i AM the customer that puts the bread on the ttable for these ppl!!!!!!!

ride BLUE

  • BigMike

Posted February 27, 2001 - 01:52 AM

#35 I said support those that support you. If someone treats you right give them your business. If they don't ...boycott them.

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