How much training?



21 replies to this topic
  • YZR426

Posted February 08, 2001 - 04:36 AM

#1

I know that some of you race on the weekends or when ever you can.
So I just wanted to no how much training do you guys do and what type of training?(ride,run,gym?)
I have only started to take it seriously enough to go for a run or ride my mountain bike most days.
Just how much do most guys do in 7 days on average and what level are you on an MXer?

  • Scott_F

Posted February 08, 2001 - 08:38 AM

#2

I'm an expert level MXer. I recommend riding once during the week if possible, or going to the gym twice a week. At the gym work on cardiovascular fitness and endurance, not bulking up through weight training. Mountain biking is excellent. Be careful not to overtrain. You should feel fresh and energetic when you go riding.

In addition, if you are heavy, the best thing you can do is to get down to your ideal racing weight. If you are 6' or less, there is no reason to be over 180. You should also try to clean up your diet and lifestyle. Huge gains can be made in this area, with no work other than mental changes.

  • sleekfreak

Posted February 08, 2001 - 08:46 AM

#3

Not and expert but I train on a stationary bike 3 times a week, lift 4 times a weeks and try to ride dirt or ride street as much as possiable durning the week and on weekends. I am not the fastest or the best cornerer but I can hold my own.

  • MXOldtimer

Posted February 08, 2001 - 08:54 AM

#4

try posting your question at
www.ronron.com
there is a fitness trainer there that has some really good info, along with traing routines. NOT THAT THUMPERTALK ISNT A GOOD SOURCE OF INFO,I love this place

Doug
sorry I had ronron site wrong its corrected now (www.ronronmx.com)

[This message has been edited by MXOldtimer (edited 02-08-2001).]

  • TheBOS

Posted February 08, 2001 - 10:34 PM

#5

I am an intermediate/advanced level rider (woods, not mx). I usually ride once during the week and one or two days on the weekend. While fairly new to dirtbiking, I have been lifting weights for years.

I can lift 4-5 days a week and it doesn't effect my riding, but I also don't bulk up too much from lifting - I am 6'0, 175.lbs.

Here's what I recommend, although I don't necessarily follow this routine:

During the off-season: Weight lift and cardio (running, bike, etc) 4-5 days a week. Do the entire body, including legs, and especially lower back. I usually do one body part a day, once a week. If you don't know what you are doing in gym find someone who does, correct form when doing an exercise, is really important otherwise you end up hurting yourself or working out the wrong muscles.

During the on-season: Keep lifting, 2-3 days a week, if you are riding frequently I would stop doing cardio, if you are only riding once a week then continue doing cardio.

The weight lifting will increase your strength (this will come in handy when you dump the heavy 4-stroke) and it will also strengthen your joints, ligaments, etc and make you more "impact resistant" (when you dump the 4-stroke). :-) Seriously, as well as holding you together, muscle serves as a cushion and protects your body. You will also heal quicker and become more attuned to your body in general.

I would also highly recommend eating healthy, I don't mean going super crazy and becoming a vegetarian, but the way you eat affects your health (and riding) just as much as any work-out routine. Most of the benefits of a workout routine will be negated by eating incorrectly. If you are lifting eat protein. Don't forget fresh green vegetables, this is what gives you the energy to workout and to ride!

I am by no means a physical trainer, but I would be happy to give anyone advice on the subject.


-Brett

  • kmcbride

Posted February 08, 2001 - 10:34 PM

#6

Finally an area I can give back to Thumper Talk! I spend most of my time absorbing the excellent technical info from this site. I am a researcher in the sports medicine field and believe that there is no better substitute for training for an activity than that specific activity. Therefore, the bulk of your training should be spent in the saddle and a basic level of fittness is assumed. As with most modern programs a hard day/light day approach is not a bad way to go, with particular focus spent on weak points or race type (ex. enduro vs. mx). Gym work-outs should focus on similar demands of riding: cardio, muscular endurance, and muscular strength (legs before arms) in that order of importance. For cardio, I would recommend an elliptical trainer, body walk
machine, stationary or mountain biking. They better duplicate the lower extremity demands of riding. Running is fine but tends to weaken legs at low intensity (jogging). If you like to run try to work your way up to intervals or hill work- outs once a week. Cardio work-outs should be built up to > 45mins at least 3X/ week with one of the work-outs at high intensity. A good weight routine for mx'ers uses 3X/week higher rep. (10-15) lower weight with little to no rest between sets. Work opposite muscle groups each set doing 3 sets per body part. Don't forget the abs. It will be hard at first, but can be done < 1 hour for entire upper-body. Avoid use of wrist straps and weight belts with concentration on good technique. A good personal trainer should be able to set you up. I am certainly far from an expert level rider, but I have placed well in several enduros (C and B class) beating superior technical riders with my conditioning. Your results won't lie. If you are dropping more points (enduro) or positions (mx) in the second half of a race it is likely because of relative conditioning to other riders ( need more time in gym especially cardio). If you are staying consistent (midpack or better)through-out race you probably need more saddle time. Of course everybody is different and there exsist no single formula. I also agree with Scott about over training and cleaning up your diet ( a whole other topic). If you race every weekend you would obviously need to modify.
For example: no high intensity work-outs after Thursday (riding or the gym) and at least one day of complete rest (work not included). Hope this helps. Good Luck!

[This message has been edited by kmcbride (edited 02-08-2001).]

  • Scott_F

Posted February 08, 2001 - 09:04 PM

#7

MXOldtimer, I'm an old friend and competitor of Alan Gerkey, Roncada's trainer. I used to race with him, but he is retired now. I don't agree with all of his methods, but it seems he got Roncada to work out and get in better shape. The proof is in his results.

Brett, I agree that weight training is valuable for all athletes. But in our sport, excessive bulk and muscle mass are detrimental. Strength gain without weight gain should be the goal. Do you actually believe that being vegetarian is "super crazy"? It is the most natural diet for humans.

kmcbride, well said, I agree with virtually everything you said. Every rider should evaluate their performance like this: if you finish your ride/race feeling fresh and you quickly recover, your fitness level is good and you need to work on your speed. If you come in wasted, sweating heavily, breathing hard, etc, then your base fitness is not nearly good enough.

  • rep

Posted February 08, 2001 - 09:56 PM

#8

Originally posted by Scott F:
MXOldtimer, I'm an old friend and competitor of Alan Gerkey, Roncada's trainer. I used to race with him, but he is retired now. I don't agree with all of his methods, but it seems he got Roncada to work out and get in better shape. The proof is in his results.

Brett, I agree that weight training is valuable for all athletes. But in our sport, excessive bulk and muscle mass are detrimental. Strength gain without weight gain should be the goal. Do you actually believe that being vegetarian is "super crazy"? It is the most natural diet for humans.

kmcbride, well said, I agree with virtually everything you said. Every rider should evaluate their performance like this: if you finish your ride/race feeling fresh and you quickly recover, your fitness level is good and you need to work on your speed. If you come in wasted, sweating heavily, breathing hard, etc, then your base fitness is not nearly good enough.


Right on Buzz!! Cigar smoking, capitalist vegans unite!

  • Numpsy

Posted February 08, 2001 - 11:04 PM

#9

Hi,
During the winter season we are Ice-racing here in Sweden.
This helps You balance and teaches You to "loosen up" on the bike....
Since my back is preventing me to run I have switched to Mountain-biking and swimming.
Mountain-bike gives You a great cmbo of cardia, leg- and back muscle, balance and bike feel.
I spend 3-4 days in a Medical gym since I feel that this kind of gym:s gives You the right kind of muscles and no build-up.
What You really have to learn is to drink a lot of water.
Make Your body used to absorb about 3-4 litres a day and You will help You to sustain the fatigue better!
Please have in mind that this is my opinion.
It helps for me......
Try to find what is best for Your body and most important mind!
If You do not enjoy training, it will not help You!!!!

  • TheBOS

Posted February 09, 2001 - 05:58 AM

#10

Scott- I didn't mean to refer to vegetarians as "crazy", I just meant you don't have to make radical changes in your diet to improve your overall health.

Also, I agree that excessive bulk can be detrimental to riding, but weight lifting with higher reps/lower weight will increase overall endurance and has other benefits that will help your riding - such as reducing arm pump and reducing upper body and lower body fatigue.



[This message has been edited by TheBOS (edited 02-09-2001).]

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  • Scott_F

Posted February 09, 2001 - 09:15 AM

#11

Some people DO need to make radical changes to their diet/lifestyle to make real improvements in their overall health and fitness. I have seen so many people wasting years in the gym, working out hard, trying to compensate for a poor diet, and still ending up with high body fat. I'm bagging on people who eat mostly fast foods, junk food, alcohol, sodas, etc, and think they can compensate for it in the gym.

IMO, it's a lot easier and a lot less work to use diet/lifestyle changes as the primary path to greater health and fitness, with exercise and training secondary, rather than vise versa. It takes the synergy and proper application of both methods to achieve the greatest results.

I agree with you about the benefits of weight training for muscle endurance and strength. It is a valuable combination with cardio-vascular work. When I weight train, I try to do it aerobically, moving quickly from station to station, to maintain the highest possible heart and respiratory rate.

  • TheBOS

Posted February 09, 2001 - 09:56 AM

#12

I agree with you exercise and eating properly go hand in hand.

I personally don't consider cutting out fast food, junk food, sodas, etc as radical, but I guess for many people it may be considered a radical change. I do consider cutting out alchohol a radical change...... :)

  • kmcbride

Posted February 09, 2001 - 10:36 PM

#13

I believe you are differentiating between fitness / health / wellness. One can be fit and not healthy and certainly healthy yet not fit. Overall health and fitness is often termed wellness. There is obviously some gray area here as well and interplay between terms. I could go on, but I am late for an office Happy Hour where I will be eating buffalo wings, cheese sticks and downing pints of Guinness. No big deal, I will just work it off on the YZ tomorrow!

  • forloop

Posted February 15, 2001 - 07:55 AM

#14

I hate do admit this but I'm a good example of what happens when you are not in the best shape for MX. All my riding buddies are fast B riders. I was still racing the vet novice class when I broke my collor bone and took eight month off.

When we would practice together I could stay with them for about a lap then I was spent. Back in the pits I would get the lecture from them. If you only get into shape you would be right there.

Well since breaking my collor bone into multiple peices I have gained 20 pounds. So now I'm at 230. I am taking it real slow getting back into riding, but at 230 it is tough to hang on to the bike.

I have printed out what kmcbride wrote (Thanks) and I am going to give it to my wife. She makes a great PT. Also, Scott F that was good advice too. I like to mountain bike idea. It can get boring doing just gym stuff. It may be tuff talking the wife into a mountain bike after I just bought the thumper.

Thanks

------------------
Rick
01 YZ426F #85 Vet C

  • kmcbride

Posted February 15, 2001 - 09:15 AM

#15

Hey Rick,
Good luck on your recovery and rehab. One piece of advice is to get into the mountain biking slowly. I have worked with several people recovering from varying degrees of collar bone injuries and can tell you that the jarring and vibration on a mountain bike can be worse than on your YZ, especially to the shoulder girdle. Depending on the severity of your break and surrounding tissue damage, it will feel like every bump, root and rock is transferring it's force to your freshly mended collar bone. You might want to stay on some easier terrain before getting aggressive. Moist heat or ultra sound, if available, pre work-out would help loosen up the shoulder and have ice ready for when your done. Definetly take it easy on heavy overhead pressing and shoulder shrugs. There are a lot of undiagnosed shoulder separations that go along with a clavicle fracture. Whenever I have an injury, and I have had a few, I try to work on other areas of fitness. For example, I probably got into the best cardiovascular shape of my life after a suffering a wrist fracture from bailing off my former pig of a bike an XR600. You usually can always find some way to work-out around an injury.
Take care, Keith.

  • YZR426

Posted February 16, 2001 - 12:29 AM

#16

I would also like to thank everyone who has replied to this posting .
It's helping me with conditioning myself to ride the bike for alot longer.I've only started getting serious about my training now (at 30 it may be a bit latebut who cares).
I've been cycling (stationary and Mountain biking)and jogging (no gym yet! start next monday)
I would like to say too Scott F that I'm now 178lbs just from eating correctly and a small amount of exercize,I don't think that I could get much lower than 170-172 but I'll keep trying.
I went for a ride today and had a problem with forearm cramps not pump up but cramps.What do you guys think I could eat or drink during sessions on the bike?
I drink about 4 liters of water over the day also tried some gatorade(also eat Oranges and bananas etc)but it didn't help.
I will be riding again on sunday
Thankyou again :)

  • kmcbride

Posted February 16, 2001 - 07:25 AM

#17

Cramping and arm-pump are probably a source of much debate in motorcycling. Without trying to distinquish between the two, they are both likely results of muscle fatigue. There is a great deal of literature on this subject, however, mostly on runners. Using what is currently known here is what may work and works for me:

Saddle time: Like any other muscle the forearms will respond to training. Often the tendency when practicing is to back off
when arm-pump starts. You need to push into the fatigue a bit to get the muscles to adapt. Riding position could also effect degree of pump/cramp. Your forearms are providing your main link to the bike, therefore if you can reduce the force required from your grip you should theoretically reduce forearm fatigue. A forward balanced riding position with elbows bent and knees slightly compressing tank could reduce stress on arms. You will find as you become better conditioned you will tend to use less arm and more legs during riding. I tend to get nervous in the beginning of a race and notice I have a white-knuckled death grip on the bars. Once I relax forearm fatigue seems to subside. I take every opportunity in an enduro to shake out my hands as the static grip plays a role in fatigue. This would be tough for mxer's.

Training: Your weight training should help. The forearm is the weak link of the chain when riding. Do not wear wrist straps when weight lifting and throw in some wrist curls for could measure. My favorite, from the old school, is the wrist rolling exercise. Basically a short broom handle with a weight tied to it with a about 3-4 ft.rope. Start with 5-10 pounds. You then become a human wench and roll the weight up and down changing directions of your roll. Keep your arms out in front at shoulder level with elbows slightly bent. Your forarms will burn!! Remember to shoot for endurance vs. strength. You will find that this duplicates the feeling of forearm fatigue found on the bike. Lots of guys like sqeeze balls or hand grippers to use when riding in their car.

Hydration: Muscle cramps (fatigue) have been associated with dehydration and electrolyte imbalance (sodium & potassium) especially in heat from excessive sweating. Hydrating before an event is critical as fluid you consume during racing (enduro or HS) or between motos is strictly fluid replacement. Water works well before races with a diet with adequate electrolytes esp. salt. Space out consuption during the day most people will need at least a gallon( 6-8oz. per pound of body weight). This would include morning O.J., decaf. beverage etc. Avoid excess caffiene race day as it tends to act as a diruetic. The general rule for fluid replacement during an event is 5-12oz. for every 15-20mins. of activity. This is best done with a sports drink (Gatorade, All Sport, etc.) They contain electrolytes, carbs, and are therefore absorb faster and replace lost sodium from exercise. Staight water, although fine for short bouts, does nothing for lost electrolytes and actually could aid in sweeping more away. Although rare in motocross, hyponatremia (low sodium) is a dangerous condition that has occured in desert racing and enduros. Some newer sport drink brands(coming soon) will have chromium and choline (trace minerals) which have shown to be associated with fatigue and depleted with long bouts of exercise. Enduro and HS riders should have replacement fluid onboard during race. Mxers will likely have to wait between motos.

I didn't even touch on prerace stretching and post race / work-out recovery. What you consume immediately following a work-out or race is just as important, if not more, in aiding in your training and recovery. Sorry about the long post, as you can tell, I like this stuff.
Good luck, Keith.

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted February 16, 2001 - 10:38 PM

#18

Eat junk food, drink lots of beer, and smoke 'till your lungs hurt. That's my training!

  • YZR426

Posted February 16, 2001 - 03:50 PM

#19

Thanks heaps Keith,It does look as though you enjoy your training and you have great knowledge about the physical effort involved in the sport.It seems to be a common problem "arm pump" and I've been trying too ride through it as much as possible also I'm using my legs more and have tried some grip tape on the side of the frame as to help with being stable on the bike it seems to be helping.
I will try the exercises that you have mentioned and also try to drink mostly Gatorade or similar during the day.
Thankyou again.
p.s. the long posts are great when informative.

Greg :)

  • forloop

Posted February 17, 2001 - 07:20 AM

#20

Keith

I do have a queston. What do you think about this massive water intake per day to lose weight?

Thanks,

------------------
Rick
01 YZ426F #85 Vet C





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