Loud bikes



145 replies to this topic
  • endurodog

Posted June 26, 2003 - 05:24 PM


THIS VERY WELL MIGHT BE THE WORLDS LARGEST PISSING CONTEST TO DATE!


You would be totally correct!! This isn't the first time this issue has come up and I'm sure it won't be the last. Instead of talking issues it has degenrated into people challenging people, usually its just name calling. But I committed to my beliefs on the issue and won't back down from a race challenge either, hey I've left with my tail between my legs from a few races in my life, as most racers have.

  • endurodog

Posted June 26, 2003 - 06:14 PM


Now Dan getting back to the issue here is some of your comments from TT in Nov 2002, 8 months ago. Why the change?? I understand that quite systems are easier to get now but the forces against us are the same with the same agenda. In Nov we were on the same page. Anyway heres your full text:

alstroker,
You are right on the money! Bingo. Finally, someone gets the picture. This noise issue is simply another way of controlling what others can and cannot do. It will not end with this issue.
Despite the fact that my friends and I ride in totally desolate, unpopulated areas, I will be soon fitting a quiet silencer for the occasional ride into dirt-bike friendly one-horse towns.
AMA, BRC, etc, say that giving in to this noise issue will satisfy Joe Public and the enviros and it will then be easy for us to retain land for our use. Baloney! Wake up, guys. This is only the issue-du-jour.
I am tired of giving up land. 14 million acres in California since 1970, and still counting. I want my land-use organization to FIGHT, not continue to give up a little piece at a time until it's all gone.
Learn from the NRA. Why do they have a reputation for protecting firearm owners' rights? Because they compromise and give in a little at a time? Hardly.
Appease the landowners. Screw the greenies!
Dan




  • FTD

Posted June 26, 2003 - 06:26 PM


DON"T STOP NOW, THUMPERTALK IS ON ITS WAY TO THE GUINESS BOOK OF WORLD RECORDS WITH THIS THREAD:

THIS VERY WELL MIGHT BE THE WORLDS LARGEST PISSING CONTEST TO DATE! :) :D :D :D :D


I HATE "lets race" talk. " I'll smoke ya" talk. I can see joking to someone about how you had a beer open before they pulled up but these challenges... PTTTTT.
In my mind, and my little experience, the people who talk smack and challenge are a lot slower than they play off to be.
<Gosh, why am I getting OT from this post?>
I recall preperation and travel for a hard ride a couple summers ago. This guy from Salt Lake had all the goodies. He talked like he was Ty Davis. We ended up on some s&%$ bag stuff and we ended up having to ride his bike up a NASTY set (mile or so) of switch backs. Couple hours later he came up the ravine, out of breath, asking if he could get cell phone service for life flight to come pick him and his bike up. :D :D
Talk, talk, talk! Go beat the stuffings out of your competitors, leave it be, brag to your wife or girlfriend then and be quiet!!! We (I) don't want your challenges nor your threats that you can beat me (or he). I would rather ride with a slow rider who is good conversation than some guy who is extremely fast and tells all about how he won this race and is this fast and did this and has this done to his bike. I ride to (hear my pipe :D) have comrodore', conversation and a good time. RC, Bubba and the likes do not. They are FAST... we are par. Ty Davis is either riding right now, training or resting for the former... we are in front of a computer.
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
Hey, if I make it to next years TT ride can we sit around the campfire and talk about how fast we are and how loud (or quiet) our pipe is. How about how your wife is fat and your truck is gutless. We talk (bicker) about this on the computer because we can... I (we) must be bored. If someone starts in on something like this around the campfire on a ride or at a break in the ride, I either make a laughing mockery of them or walk away. "I'll beat you," "Your pipe is too loud." TT talk at it's finest. I (we) enjoy it for some reason and I will try (about as hard as is it is to smoke you on the trail:LOL:) to refrain from it.
For now...
Hoss

  • endurodog

Posted June 26, 2003 - 07:16 PM


I HATE "lets race" talk. " I'll smoke ya" talk. I can see joking to someone about how you had a beer open before they pulled up but these challenges... PTTT



I agree, I have had some success in racing but there are still those that are faster. In the end it doesn't matter how fast you are, its how much you enjoy riding. I tell my Girlfriend and others that the guy barely getting his wheels off the ground on the MX track is having as much fun, if not more than the guy clearing everything. Beyond that it detracts from the important issue we are discussing here that effects us all.

  • treecop

Posted June 26, 2003 - 08:19 PM


Holy long post Batman!!!!
I work a couple of long days protecting your public lands and come back to this?? My whole 30 minutes of TT time has been on this thread. How am I supposed to read the rest?

1. Here is my gauntlet, and I am throwing it down!!!
I challenge every TT member to go (or call) to their public lands office (BLM, USFS, etc..) and ask to meet with the Recreation Manager or Trails Manager. Ask about OHV trails in the area, and volunteering one day a year. Use that time to educate that person about motorcycles and the responsible citizens like yourself who ride them. Talk about creating loops. Most non-motorheads don't realize we like to ride big circles, not the same trail back and forth. Exchange email addresses and creat dialogue. Ask to be informed if any decisions regarding OHV's come onto the table.

This will help.

2. I do not enforce noise regulations on my district because I do not have the equipment (we can't afford it). I do check OHV stickers and spark arresters at every contact. I police here BECAUSE I ride here. If you are not legal :) you will get a ticket.

The more sound you make at that agencies office, the more you can ride in the woods.

  • Merfman

Posted June 27, 2003 - 03:20 AM


Hoss sez:

> I HATE "lets race" talk. "

I just wanted to point out that my acceptance of DfHB's challenge was simply to illustrate a point. He'd made the
comment that only a small percentage of riders can actually
use the all the power of a 426 (or words to that effect).

While that may be true at sea level, I don't think he'd agree at 11000 feet where the trails are strewn with downed logs, rocks, river crossings, etc and our bikes run with about 40% less power. It's been said at 6000 feet, we lose
20% power and I believe it. I've never ridden my 426 at sea
level, only at 1800 feet. The power increase is pretty phenomenal and is addictive as any drug. That's one reason I make about 5 treks a year to Texas to race.

All BS aside, Dan, if you wanna come out to CO, I'd like to
show you how the other half lives. You'll get some killer trail riding in too. 'Dawg and I'll give you a personal guided tour of Timberline, Star, Block and Tackle, Fossil Ridge, etc....

And, FWIW, I don't think anyone will ever find where I claimed to be able to kick anyone's butt... I'm just a trail rider.

Merf

  • 125shifter

Posted June 27, 2003 - 04:13 AM


OSHA Standards...

Subpart D - Occupational Health and Environmental Controls

1962.52 Occupational noise exposure

Table D-2 Permissible Noise Exposures

Duration per day, hours: dBA

8.......................... 90
6.......................... 92
4.......................... 95
3.......................... 97
2.......................... 100
1-1/2.................... 102
1.......................... 105

Looks like I'm only gonna be riding between 2 & 1.5 hours/day if it's your "job" to watch me ride. :)

Thunder Alley exhausts - gotta love 'em

125

  • Dan_from_HB

Posted June 27, 2003 - 03:26 PM


Now Dan getting back to the issue here is some of your comments from TT in Nov 2002, 8 months ago. Why the change?? I understand that quite systems are easier to get now but the forces against us are the same with the same agenda. In Nov we were on the same page. Anyway heres your full text:

alstroker,
You are right on the money! Bingo. Finally, someone gets the picture. This noise issue is simply another way of controlling what others can and cannot do. It will not end with this issue.
Despite the fact that my friends and I ride in totally desolate, unpopulated areas, I will be soon fitting a quiet silencer for the occasional ride into dirt-bike friendly one-horse towns.
AMA, BRC, etc, say that giving in to this noise issue will satisfy Joe Public and the enviros and it will then be easy for us to retain land for our use. Baloney! Wake up, guys. This is only the issue-du-jour.
I am tired of giving up land. 14 million acres in California since 1970, and still counting. I want my land-use organization to FIGHT, not continue to give up a little piece at a time until it's all gone.
Learn from the NRA. Why do they have a reputation for protecting firearm owners' rights? Because they compromise and give in a little at a time? Hardly.
Appease the landowners. Screw the greenies!
Dan





Hey Dog,
I haven't left you, I just changed my tune a little after numerous conversations with people on the front lines of land use issues. I only changed one aspect, though. I still think we should legally and politically oppose any mandatory Db levels, and support voluntary ones.
Don't get me wrong. Noise still isn't the real issue. It's just what they are beating us over the head with at the moment. But if we voluntarily take away the phony issues through a little sacrifice, we expose their real motivations. The fact we need to expose is that they simply want us off of "their" land. That is more powerful in front of a judge than any protests, sit-ins, writing campaigns, or political pressure. It's the judges that are going to ultimately decide these things. They are the ones we have to impress. And the attorneys are telling us we need to behave like choirboys in the meantime so we can win a few lawsuits of our own.
About the race. If you really want to do it, we can get it done. My thing is to draw attention to the issue and make everyone think a little.
I think FTD took me a little seriously as a braggart. Not really. You may well blow me into the weeds for all I know. I have no clue how fast you are, and I'm not Ty Davis. But if you want that cold beer, I'll make you work hard to get it.
Dan
PS: If you already have a vortip, aren't we discussing a non-issue? BTW: Stonyford this fall with Paul Maust if you're interested.....

  • endurodog

Posted June 27, 2003 - 04:49 PM


PS: If you already have a vortip, aren't we discussing a non-issue?



Well thats where I think we got off on the wrong foot. I think our beliefs are pretty much the same. I agree we should take away the noise argument as much as possible. My biggest problem with the noise issue is 2 fold. It's being forced on us with the false promise of "less sound=more ground". My feeling is exactly as you stated, lets take it away from them as an issue but lets be realistic about what it gets us. The realistic aspect of what we are going to accomplish with this is my biggest beef, reduction of noise will not save our sport.

2nd is that it sneaked up on us. I wish there could have been a better phase in of the restrictions to allow the technology to catch up. If the after market guys knew enough in advance this was coming I'm sure they would have the equipment manufactured to meet the demand.

Sorry a third point is the lack of performance issue. I have not tested all of the systems, my VOR tip does stiffle my performance some. Now I'm at altitude and that may have some effect on performance issues, but thats for another discussion, a performance one. Bill Dart started this one, that no one needs that much power. Some like more power some don't need it, to lump everyone into that catagory is short sighted and blind to others needs and wants be it hill climbing, sand washes, tight woods or what ever.

As far as the race thing, who knows who would win, the important thing would be the beer at the end!!! Hopefully sometime we get to share that beer :), really!

  • Steve_Claus

Posted July 01, 2003 - 07:51 AM


Good info:

Sound info...

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  • 125shifter

Posted July 01, 2003 - 08:55 AM


Hey. That is good info. Didn't see Thunder Alley on the list - must have been over 101db :) or not tested.


125

  • Brian_in_Long_Beach

Posted July 02, 2003 - 09:14 AM


That's helpful but it also shows the variability when doing sound testing. I glanced at the data for WRs with stock exhaust/vortip, baja designs, turndown and the dB were low to mid 90's. I've been tested 3 times on my '99 w/stock pipe/Thumper Racing Quiet Core - 96, 95 & 92. The 95 & 96 were similar weather conditions but different surroundings - Penny Pines CG & Middle Creek CG - Mendocino NF. The 92 was at Foresthill in December when it was butt ass cold in an 'open' area set up specifically for sound testing - '02 TW Family Enduro.

It's going to get real interesting when people get cited and start fighting the tickets because sound measurement has so many variables that just can't be controlled unless you're in an anechoic (sp?) chamber. I know if I got popped I'd be fighting it and baffling the judge with engineering texts. I believe the intent of the 96dB 'law' is correct just not the methodology for testing.

Brian

  • Dan_Lorenze

Posted July 02, 2003 - 05:14 PM


On my way home from a race this weekend my family decided to stay at our condo in Mammoth to take the edge off of the long drive home back to Socal. When we arrived in Mammoth we noticed hundreds of Harleys,wife beaters and straight pipes cruising around the lakes camp grounds and city streets..... You wonder why people hate motorcycles.

Sorry!! We're not the big problem here.... You have special groups of people going after us in a big way, people that have nothing better to do with there time... They want us gone for good...... We could get our bikes down to 80dbs and it won't do any good....

I'll be the first one to say that I need and want the extra power that the hi performance exhaust systems put out.... I don't want to race any of you to prove this but I make no appologies for wanting the best performing bike I can get.

  • twofish

Posted July 09, 2003 - 01:33 AM


On my way home from a race this weekend my family decided to stay at our condo in Mammoth to take the edge off of the long drive home back to Socal. When we arrived in Mammoth we noticed hundreds of Harleys,wife beaters and straight pipes cruising around the lakes camp grounds and city streets..... You wonder why people hate motorcycles.

Sorry!! We're not the big problem here.... You have special groups of people going after us in a big way, people that have nothing better to do with there time... They want us gone for good...... We could get our bikes down to 80dbs and it won't do any good....

I'll be the first one to say that I need and want the extra power that the hi performance exhaust systems put out.... I don't want to race any of you to prove this but I make no appologies for wanting the best performing bike I can get.




I think there is a lot of truth to what you are saying. But being witch-hunted or not running loud pipes on public land, (the key word being public) is giving them (an overly sensitive group of whiners who are going to complain about anything and everything until they have all the land to themselves) ammunition to use against us in a steep uphill fight to begin with.

Considering the overall scheme of things, if you ride pre-dominately public land and have to have the extra punch -"Bore Up" with a kit or a different bike.

Just my .02$ worth. :) :D :D

  • fman

Posted July 10, 2003 - 02:19 AM


Totally contensious topic.. Yeah I think there should be an enforceable sound limit. No I don't think it will change public perception. The only feasible result is to have seperate user areas in the bush. Each user group thinks they are the only "right one". Last weekend I was riding in a bush area, but a maintained road leading a group of about 10 riders, I came around a corner to be confronted by a group of 10-12 bush walkers. Now being the courtious type I am I slowed to maybe 10mph and waved. These totally arrogant morons did not even try to move from the middle of the road!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and the looks they fired back only made me see red. I wish I had been driving a logging truck...... Then there are the Horse lovers, about 30 of them set out on a ride straight across a main paved road with total disregard for traffic. You need to be licensed and registered to ride a bike here but any under aged under achiever can mount a stupid horse and cause havoc. The rules should govern all users in a logical way. Noise is just a simple obvious target for the other user groups to complain about, the db level is somewhat relevant but not the answer. By the way I am equally peeved by the guys who think the car park is where you cut the fast laps, these guys should be riding horses.......

Multi use areas are dangerous, I dont enjoy meeting a horse or walker or mtn bike on a trail and I'm sure a hell they don't either. Allocate areas and live and let live..

  • Dan_Lorenze

Posted July 10, 2003 - 06:42 PM


On my way home from a race this weekend my family decided to stay at our condo in Mammoth to take the edge off of the long drive home back to Socal. When we arrived in Mammoth we noticed hundreds of Harleys,wife beaters and straight pipes cruising around the lakes camp grounds and city streets..... You wonder why people hate motorcycles.




I forgot to mention, the campgrounds and streets of Mammoth will remain open while the "Motocross track" located miles away from town will be closing down this year until many enviromental issues are addressed... Even though the land is kept up by cleaning crews and a recycling center. Even your "Q" pipes won't help here.... Just a good ole fashion fight over dirtbikes and how they destroy the land....


Click here to hear more..........................

  • Gadsen

Posted July 10, 2003 - 07:51 PM


I forgot to mention, the campgrounds and streets of Mammoth will remain open while the "Motocross track" located miles away from town will be closing down this year until many enviromental issues are addressed... Even though the land is kept up by cleaning crews and a recycling center. Even your "Q" pipes won't help here.... Just a good ole fashion fight over dirtbikes and how they destroy the land....



This is a good reason for everyone in here riding dirt bikes, quads, PWC, snowmobiles, hikers, hunters, fishermen etc to join the Blue Ribbon Coalition. There is strength in numbers. Oh, dont forget to register to vote either and know who to vote for also.

  • MichWR

Posted July 11, 2003 - 05:39 AM


96 dBs seems to be reasonable to me on public lands. I have a 250F with a Big gun Quiet Series and it is still plenty loud (I have the race core insert also but have never used it). I don't know how you guys can ride a bike at 101 dBs. I want to have my hearing when I'm sixty. If people want to use the louder pipes on MX tracks that's fine, but we should be responsible in multi-use areas. There is enough public land to set aside areas for quiet use and for activities such as ATV & motorcycle riding, but let's be responsible. Do you really need the couple of extra horses that the loud pipe is going to provide? I wouldn't mind having more power but to me it's not worth the extra noise. Some people will always want more power but do they really need it? I think that a lot of them just want the bragging rights.

  • ddialogue

Posted July 11, 2003 - 06:01 AM


Not to mention those nice, expensive, after-market exhausts sure look a lot better than stock! :)

  • adamwagar

Posted July 11, 2003 - 06:05 AM


"Some people will always want more power but do they really need it?"




Do you really need a 250F? :) Maybe an XR250 would be a better choice??? :D

What do we really need? How much is enough? How loud is too loud? This topic could go on forever. :D

Lets all just ride responsibly. Wherever and whatever we're riding. :D




 
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