As a perspective for you from across the pond 2t's certainly are making a comeback in the UK. The UK was very much like the US with 2t sales having all but fallen off a cliff by the time the majority of manufacturers had both a 250f and 450 in its lineup. But in europe they continued to sell well, which is why Kawasaki and Suzuki continued to import the KX and RM range. Granted they only sold 2008 models made from left over parts, but they sold in huge numbers spurred on by very popular national and european 2t championships, so it must have been hugely profitable for them. Now there only seems to be the odd left over bike in dealerships rather than new shipments every few weeks which I hope is a sign that maybe they will be bringing out a 2011 model, but more likely they've worked through the stock of old parts and don't want to make more.

As to whether this new found enthusiasm for them is new sales or just people dusting off the old bikes at the back of the garage is difficult to tell as whilst Yamaha and KTM make up the majority there are still a fair few Honda's about that certainly did stop being produced. But I think that its great that 2t classes at local races are full and the national championship for them is one of the best we have.

Regardless of whether a 350 4T is viable in pro MX, I do think it makes a lot of sense for off-road. In my opinion a 450 is a little much, but a 250 doesn't quite have the oooomph I need for my weight and the big hill climbs. Which is exactly why I've come full circle back to a the 2-stroke world. A 350 4T might fit the bill, I can't wait to try one.

Killaz said:

Shhhh don't mention the 350SX or people will come and start hating on you :ride:

gruberyz said:

I hate him already, but only cause he's probably ahead of me in the lineup at A&E:banana::lol:

If it counts any I agree and understand the whole KTM/Baskin Robbins comparison/analogy.

When I bought my unused 1996 WR250 I had no idea what a great bike it was. I was almost ready to quit riding, following the ownership of an 02 WR426, an 03 YZ250F, then lasty and the most boring of all, an uncorked 04 CRF250X (I quit riding for a year after that one.)
My WR250 comes with about 40 HP, an o-ring chain, wide-ratio tranny, perfectly tuned off-road suspension (the best out-of-the-box I've even owned) and a big tank. And for those who say the tank sucks...., B frikk'n S. Even the seat is mucho comfy for long rides. It eats single tracks, loves hills, and handles everything I can find to pilot it through. I like it so much I even bought a scotts stabilizer for it, something I've been too cheap to buy for any other bike I've had in the past. I love to blast on this thing!

This is the best bike I've ever owned, and I've been off-roading for over 40 years. We've gone backwards, for sure. 2-smokes forever! BAAAARAAAAAPPPPP!

I hope someone (magazine???) might do a shootout between the new ktm 350 and a big bore kitted two stroke. Maybe it woudl help define the line, or place it in a fair location.

How cool woudl it be to start an argument between 2's and 4's if we really had them evenly matched in the class?

RCannon said:

An EXC/XC 300 2T verses 350 EXC-F would be a good comparision.
I'm sure both would have their strengths and weaknesses.

vic2003 said:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup


Need I say more?

RCannon said:

I'm talking about 4t, not 2t. Yeah, a 2t that weighs 228 and has 48hp is nothing new or innovative. But who else makes a 4t with those stats? I'd be interested in riding/buying one myself.

The 350sxf doesn't make those stats

228.5lbs is not the curb weight - it actually weights more than the Honda 450f

Also like I mentioned a page back, I don't believe a 350f is putting out 48rwhp which the 450s are or very close to.

The consensus around here is that the 350sx is very "250 2 stroke like". Hmmm imagine that. That says a lot.

kan3 said:

almost all of the 450's are doing that or more at the wheel !

kan3 said:

The KTM weighs 228.5 without fuel. The honda crf450 weighs 227. So you're right. The KTM weighs more....1 pound more.

The kTM 250SXF has been putting out 40hp stock for years. Read the last 5 years of 250f shoot out dynos. It's always the HP king.

Seeing an extra 8 ponies for 100cc displacement is very believeable.

The latest Dirt Rider tested the new KTM 350 SXF at 48 RWHP. 450fs are putting out 53hp or more.

So there you have it:thumbsup:

Crusty1 said:

If a KTM 250SXF is putting out 40 horses stock then our bikes would be reading upwards of 50 on the same dyno

MegaDeTH said:

You actually just said the same thing I did by putting the word almost at the start of the sentence.


This chart is what I'm referencing with those numbers. I've seen a few bikes on the dyno in town while I've been at the shop and they've always been very close to the chart numbers this site produces. Because of this I've always considered them a worth while reference. This same site says the 250sxf put out around 35rwhp which puts it in line with all the other 250r bikes.

The problem with Dynos is is they only tell you about WFO not partial openings.

kan3 said:

no, I in no way said what you said, WHEEL, do you understand the difference between HP at the wheel and what a OEM says the hp is? They all measure HP at the crank

that's why dyno graphs all show lower than oem claims, sometimes as much as 20 % depending on the dyno, last weekend we had a brand new super snake dyno'ed and it was showing 450 hp, the car makes over 750 hp, it was a dyno day, and every car on the dyno was low by the same percentage, it was a 4wd dyno so the % of drop is quite a bit more than a 2wd dyno.

MegaDeTH said:

This is how I break down both of our sentences in a logical order

" I don't believe a 350f is putting out 48rwhp which the 450s are or very close to."

This sentence implies that the 450f bikes ARE putting out 48rwhp or very CLOSE to the stated number. Close dictates a small variation + or -.


You state "almost all of the 450's are doing that or more at the wheel!"

This sentence implies nearly all 450f bikes are doing 48rwhp or greater. Yet you include the word almost at the start of your sentence. This implies that even though MOST of them are doing this, not all are in fact producing these numbers.

You have in effect just stated nearly the same thing that I have but with a higher potential top end.

Quote

Yes I do and I don't recall most OEM even stating their HP figures. If you go back one page you will see the comment where I mentioned boasting about crank figures holds no purpose. I've also stated rwhp the entire time so I don't know why you were assuming I was talking about anything else.

I want to be clear, I do not agree with you on how much power the 450's are making, or the 350

soon people will have both bikes on the same dyno and we will get to see, I suspect they will be pretty close, like the ktm 450/530's are