Anybody do your own suspension and care to share info?

[PeterJ]

? I rode 50 miles of rocky, rooted up trails this weekend and got beat silly. It's time to revalve as soon as my back straightens out enough to get the BRP up on the crate! Has anybody mapped out the stock valve stacks or re-valved for woods riding?

[Dutch]

The way mine is set up works well for me - the correct springs for my size, back off compression damping front and rear, run near stock rebound f&r, five weight oil in the fork with a lower oil height. I ride in the tight woods of Northern Michigan and the rocky trails in Tenn & NC and haven't found the need to play with the valve stack.

[JackAttack]

Dutch,

How much oil did you end up putting in both forks? I am running my forks similar to your set-up and used exactly 1 liter of Bel Ray 5wt(1/2 in each leg). It still feels like I need to add a little more.

It feels a bit mushy at the top of the stroke. Other than that it is working out fine for me with the stock valving.

?

[Dutch]

Hey JA

I don't remember the spec for stock height but my set up is down 5mm from stock. Don't know volume, just how close it gets to the top.

[XR650Rrider]

If you haven't changed the original fork fluid then that might help. Nearly everyone that has inspected the original fluid has found it to be the consistency of snot. I only had 20 miles on mine when I first changed it and it was stringy and came out in clumps.

I installed Racetech Gold Valves in my 2001 BRP and couldn't be happier with the setup for woods. You can go to Motoman 393's link http://motoman393.thumpertalk.com/tech/goldvalves.html and read the instructions for the Gold Valve installation for the forks. They are the same gold valves for the BRP.

The stock shim stack is a single stage stack consisting of eight shims. From the compression valve you have 2 base plates that are .50mm x 18mm. The shim stack is as follows starting with the clamping shim 11mm,14mm,16mm,18mm,20mm,20mm,22mm and 22mm. Some people have said that the stock shims are .10mm thick but I measured them to be about .13mm. The shim stack I have been running with the gold valve is

1 - .50mm x 18mm base plate

High Speed Stack

1 - .10 x 11 (clamping shim)

1 - .10x12

1 - .10x13

1 - .10x14

1 - .10x17

1 - .10x19

1 - .10x21

1 - .10x12 (crossover shim)

Low Speed Stack

5 - .10x21

2 - .15x21

I put the exact same stack in a friends bike. The only difference was I drilled the holes in the stock valve out to

1/8" this increased the flow area by 38%. I also used 2.5 wt PJ oil in his forks. He loves it in the woods. I think that 5 wt in his would have been better. It seems to blow through the stroke faster. As with all valving work you need to have the correct springs installed for your riding weight. We both weigh 235 lbs. and have .47 kg/mm Eibach springs in forks and I have a 11 kg/mm in rear, he has a 10.5 kg/mm. We both run 100mm fork oil height. The Honda recommended oil volume is 637 cc's (21.5 oz) or 120mm height. If you split a liter then you aren't running enough oil.

If you need some pictures of the valve stacks then send me an email address and I'll send them or join the yahoo XR650 group and search the archives for them.

[JackAttack]

XR650Rrider,

"Great Post!"

This is exactly the info I was looking for. ?

Thank you!

(I have a lot more ?'s, you will be hearing from me soon)

[PeterJ]

XR650Rrider,

Wow! Your discriptions show that you have applied a lot of mechanical reasoning to your approach. I like what RaceTech does by bringing suspension valving down to the average Joe. I just can't afford everything I like. I've installed their Gold Valve in someone else's bike but never my own. I wasn't looking for proprietary info though . Now that we know what your privates look like... ? if you would be so kind and answer a couple of other questions?

Would you say your riding consists of play riding/scouting around or haulin' the mail at race pace?

I'm susprised, wasn't there a change in the rebound damping with the change to lighter fluid and heavier springs?

How has your rebound clickers been changed?

Was a mid-valve removed?

The low speed stack is massive compared to what I have seen. How well does your front end set in for a corner?

Thanks again! I will let you know what I find when I get into the shock this weekend. If you have need for some old KYB CR250 ('95&'96) valving let me know. I have a '95 set up really sweet.

[XR650Rrider]

Normally play ride, if you consider pinned in 4th through knee deep whoops playing ? My knee deep is most peoples waist deep.

Rebound clickers are set fairly close to factory recommendations. Compression clickers are set about mid range. Mid valve isn't changed and isn't the same as you see changed to check valve on inverted forks. Where I have my compression clickers set I will get some bottoming if I get about 3-4 ft of air and land on flat ground. Where I ride this is acceptable and allows the bike to eat up the roots and rocks. The ride is much better than stock. My friend's bike compression clickers are about 4 clicks further in and he loves it. I haven't ridden it in the nasty stuff, but it seems to perform about the same. When landing from same jumps it seems to blow through the stack a little easier. I think that the 5 wt. may have been better, but he loves the way it performs on the trails and doesn't want to change it. Cornering seems fine to me, but then it isn't a motocross bike.

[mr660]

o.k o.k what in sam hell did you just say?? My head is still spinning. I have always wanted to do some mods myself to my suspension, but have been to intimidated to attemp it. I just squirelled my lunch money away and payed someone else to do it! AND I WOULDN"T LET PRO-ACTION PAY ME TO WIPE MY ASS (thats another story)anyway can a mechanically inclined knuckle head do these mods himself with a service manual? are there any special tools needed for the basic mods that don't cost an arm and leg? ?

[PeterJ]

Mr660!

You mean to say you don't have a service manual yet? Shame shame on you ?! The service manual does get you down to the shim level in both the forks and the shock. Suspension service isn't rocket science but on the other hand, screw something up and it could be spendy. As for special fork tools...garage logic applies. Before you take the fork spring out, turn out the base valve carefully with an impact gun. By "carefully" I mean don't spin it any faster than neccessary. It helps if you can get a view of Eric Gorr's suspension tuning tapes. Make sure to coat everything with fresh oil as it is assembled. Don't forget the O-rings. Seal grease works better than oil. To get the base valve apart you have to file the peens off at the outside of the threads and work the nut loose until you're sure you will be able to get it back on. When you put it back on either restake it or use blue lock-tite. Don't over tighten it, that's a steel nut on aluminum threads! Once you are POSITIVE everything is in line and the base valve is started in straight, tighten it with the impact. I don't hit mine very hard. Just let it spin in until it seats and then give a quick burst. Have fun!

[PeterJ]

XR650Rrider,

Well I went into my forks this weekend. Found the oil to be nasty as you said. There was a little rust on the damper rod. I played it conservative. I found the shim thicknesses to be .004" on everything but the clamping shim, which is .009". I drilled my holes out to 7/64" which isn't even noticable to my calibrated eye ?. I then stacked up the following: 11, 14, 18, 20, 16, 20, 21(added), 22, 22. I set the oil level at max- 90mm of 5wt. I would have preffered to have a 12 and a 16 on each side of the 14 but didn't have any on hand. That would give more distance to the base shim. Which would more closely resemble your Race-tech stack. I'll let you know how it works.

[PeterJ]

XR650Rrider,

Well I went into my forks this weekend. Found the oil to be nasty as you said. There was a little rust on the damper rod. I played it conservative. I found the shim thicknesses to be .004" on everything but the clamping shim, which is .009". I drilled my holes out to 7/64" which isn't even noticable to my calibrated eye ?. I then stacked up the following: 11, 14, 18, 20, 16, 20, 21(added), 22, 22. I set the oil level at max- 90mm of 5wt. I would have preffered to have a 12 and a 16 on each side of the 14 but didn't have any on hand. That would give more distance to the base shim. Which would more closely resemble your Race-tech stack. I'll let you know how it works.

[XR650Rrider]

Here is a link for installation of Gold Valves in an Inverted Kayaba fork. http://www.motocross.com/motoprof/moto/mcycle/kayabafork/kybfrk.html

There not the same as conventional forks on the BRP but the pictures of the compression valve assembly are about the same. There is a link to a Euro BRP service manual at the Pig Pen (Eric Fosters site), which for the fork disassembly instructions, is the same as the U.S. model. http://www.wtvl.net/n1rzc/xr650r/ You better have a high speed connection as the file is 150MB pdf.

There is also instructions on how to build a fork tool to hold the cartridge assembly. Just changing fork oil you don't have to have it. You can also remove the compression valve without taking the fork cap off and/or losing any oil. You have to use an impact on the compression valve assembly while compressing the fork. I bought a cheap electric one on Ebay that worked fine for this job. If you need to change seals then you might require the cartridge holding tool. I made mine out of a 3/4" stainless fitting that required a 1-1/16" (1.0625) wrench to tighten. I cut the nut portion off and TMAW welded it to 1" stainless pipe. I then had to file the shoulders down a little to fit. The cartridge has a 27mm (1.063") hex opening that the holder fits into. The holder has to be hollow for the rebound rod to extend through it. Mine looks like a large spark plug socket that is 15" long. One tool that is nice to have to remove springs is a thin 17mm open end wrench. It needs to fit between the spring coils. I just ground a cheap craftsman down to about 1/8" thick. Just do it a little at a time and keep quenching the wrench in water.

The Racetech Gold Valve kit is a worthwhile investment as it comes with a very good video that has a lot of very good disassembly/assembly instructions. The video covers inverted forks but the conventional forks are simplier. It also includes all of the shims that you will ever need, along with the charts. The cheapest place I found the shims was from MXTech and they were $0.89 each and shipping was $9.00. If your a first timer the $149.00 kit is a worthwhile investment, if you want to learn about your suspension.

[jcoyne97222]

You can download the manual at the great site of http://www.xr650r.us/. You will need a high speed connection but a real cheap way to go (149MB). This guy has done a fabulous job on his web site.

JC

[BWB63]

Link to pages on RE-Valving the XR650R Suspension Click Here: ?