Shoot me...... 2010 YZF450


28 replies to this topic
  • Skotten

Posted April 05, 2010 - 07:30 AM

#1

What happend

A simple oil change has become a nightmare... Just wanted to prep for todays training and well...

Old oil out new oil in.

Replaced the oil filter, blew out the bottom bolt hole just incase there would be anything in there, tested the bottom bolt no problems.

Oiled the rubber surfaces of the oil filter, put a little oil on the flange of the bolt head, figer tightened with a socket both bolts, grabbed my new quarter inch drive torque wrench set it to 9 N.m just to be sure nothing bad would happen, and tightening each bolt a little (very little very slowly) at a time waiting for the click. bottom bolt clicked, top felt tight ish, then spongy but never clicked so I thought I would just give a little more to see if it would click and it snapped out!!

So I stripped her down, and got the end of the bolt out luckly with needle nose vice grips.

How could this happen???

I noticed the bolts are tappered at the inside part of the thread. I guess they are designed like that, so they break off outside the casing thread and without damaging the treads.

Is it possible Yamaha made a wrong calculation somewhere or a faulty bolt??

Do I need to go back the the shop where I bought the torque wrench, heat it too cherry red and stick it where the sun don´t shine??

The worst part of the story is that.. I called the main Yamaha dealer for Sweden today, and they said the bolt is not in stock in the central ware house in Europe... It could take a week to months to get one he said.

Anyone one out there that has a number to a shop, anywhere in the world or a link to a website please help out.

I have seen aftermarket bolt kits for Japanese bikes. But do I dare throw in a bolt thats just goo enough???

I guess its back to my 250 red rocket for now....

  • Davey762

Posted April 05, 2010 - 07:43 AM

#2

Bummer for sure, I had the same thing happen to me on my old honda. It's cause the bolt is so long when you try to tighten it down too much it will just break seemingly out of nowhere. You are expencting a solid feeling, but its just spongy then bolt breaking.

I dont use a torque wrench on those long bolts, just tighten them by hand by feel.

I just changed my oil on my 2010 last night, and that long bolt looks very close to the honda one. Maybe you could try and order a honda bolt to save some time!?

  • Skotten

Posted April 05, 2010 - 07:57 AM

#3

I find it hard to believe that Yamaha don´t use the bolt on anything other that 2010 450. I´ll go to the dealer tomorrow and ask a machanic if he has one. I know the guy that answered the phone in the parts department just followed procedure, look into his computer and found nothing. I am sure the machanic will find something, they ATV, Power boats, sports bikes, off-road bikes, water scooters, road bikes ect there must be something with the same bolt somewhere.

I had to take the casings off it, to get the broken bit out. Question is do I back off all the bolts and re tighten them by hand with my little 1/4" rachet. In case they are over tightened ?? I guess I´ll have to send the torque wrench for calibration, just too see what they say.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 05, 2010 - 08:02 AM

#4

The spongy feel should have stopped you. Odds are the threads were oily, and that will very significantly increase the actually tensile stress put on a bolt at any given torque value. You need to learn how to feel the right tension for general, everyday bolts as you're working on them. From what I've seen here, far more people strip and break fasteners and drain plugs with a torque wrench than by hand, at least to hear them tell it.

  • Skotten

Posted April 05, 2010 - 08:10 AM

#5

Thanks Grey!!
But should I back off all the bolts in the casing and re-tighten them by hand. I am just afraid they are all too tight now as the torque wrench handle is so long. I can feel them be hand with a 1/4" drive ratchet it has a tiny handle on it maybe three inches long, I just thought the "right" procedure was to use the right tool for the job...

Sigh!!

  • Skotten

Posted April 05, 2010 - 08:13 AM

#6

Grey do you think Yamaha used the same bolt on something else?? I simply refuse to believe, they came out with a special bolt for the 2010 Yz450f. I knew at time there was something up but I trusted my expensive torque wrench

  • Polar_Bus

Posted April 05, 2010 - 08:18 AM

#7

I use a torque wrench on heads, and cam caps. All other torque specs are implanted in my right arm. If it's a 5 and 6 mm bolts, all's I do is give it a nice light snug, and NO more with my trusty 1/4" ratchet. Don't use a 3/8 ratchet on 6mm bolts IMO, as excessive leverage will cause the bolts to strip/shear.

  • Skotten

Posted April 05, 2010 - 08:26 AM

#8

I guess I´ll go down to the shed and back off all bolts and tighten them with my 1/4. Some of the cover bolts felt on the excessive side when I tightened them up last night. I guess I was still in a state of shock from the broken bolt on my new bike.

  • APlusAutoParts

Posted April 05, 2010 - 08:38 AM

#9

If this helps i have an 2009 yz 250 smoker and the 2010 yz 450f obviously my smoker doesnt have oil filter bolts, but i will say they have so many of the same parts and bolts so im sure they other 4 strokes probably carry the same bolts

  • Skotten

Posted April 05, 2010 - 08:43 AM

#10

If this helps i have an 2009 yz 250 smoker and the 2010 yz 450f obviously my smoker doesnt have oil filter bolts, but i will say they have so many of the same parts and bolts so im sure they other 4 strokes probably carry the same bolts


CHeers you may have saved my CRF for now, my problem is I am meeting my trainer on thursday so give the local Supercross track a bash, most likly I´ll be the one getting bashed

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Davey762

Posted April 05, 2010 - 09:34 AM

#11

The spongy feel should have stopped you. Odds are the threads were oily, and that will very significantly increase the actually tensile stress put on a bolt at any given torque value. You need to learn how to feel the right tension for general, everyday bolts as you're working on them. From what I've seen here, far more people strip and break fasteners and drain plugs with a torque wrench than by hand, at least to hear them tell it.


Good call on the oily threads gray, didn't think of that. Due to the hydraulic affect of the oil?

On my snowmobile, to remove my CVT from the taperd crankshaft I put a bit of grease on the puller threads to get it to come off easier. Same idea, correct?

  • ridleyredraider

Posted April 05, 2010 - 09:52 AM

#12

Using a torque wrench for 9ftlbs is a bit tricky anyways. My wrench doesn't really make much of a pop when you know you've hit the right torque; it's very very light and I could see myself missing it and overturning.

Torque = Force * Distance...

so maybe a good way is to use a wrench either 6" or a 1' and turn it until it feels like you're pulling 9lbs for @ 1' wrench grip from the socket, or 18lbs for a 6" wrench grip.

  • Skotten

Posted April 05, 2010 - 11:12 AM

#13

Using a torque wrench for 9ftlbs is a bit tricky anyways. My wrench doesn't really make much of a pop when you know you've hit the right torque; it's very very light and I could see myself missing it and overturning.

Torque = Force * Distance...

so maybe a good way is to use a wrench either 6" or a 1' and turn it until it feels like you're pulling 9lbs for @ 1' wrench grip from the socket, or 18lbs for a 6" wrench grip.


You got me thinking, if I had an extension bar on a long bar (which I did, I was using the torque wrench for another job before the bolt pop experience)

If I didn´t have the right angle of torque on the bolt head i.e the extentention bar was squint, then maybe thats why I got a false feed back on the tension spring in the torque wrench?? If the bar was was at an angle then it would have been easier to tighten the bolt, because of the leverage??

  • grayracer513

Posted April 05, 2010 - 11:58 AM

#14

Good call on the oily threads gray, didn't think of that. Due to the hydraulic affect of the oil?

No, you're closer with the puller analogy. The lubricating effect of the oil lets you turn the bolt farther with the same effort. Say in rough terms that you tighten an 8mm bolt to 14 ft/lb and you notice that the bolt turns a quarter turn beyond just snugged when you do that. If you oil the bolt, the same 14 ft/lb turns it a third turn or farther past seated. The threads have pulled the nose of the bolt .4 mm farther down the hole that they were, and that tension is borne by the bolt shank. It's not the extra twist, it's the extra pull that does it.

If the bar was was at an angle then it would have been easier to tighten the bolt, because of the leverage??

If you mean an extension like this:

http://jbtoolshop.co...ages/SS142A.jpg

No, it would have nothing to do with it. If you mean an offset torque adapter like these:

http://www.matcotool...ges/sbta4mr.jpg

Then, yes, it makes a lot of difference. The offset adapters have to be placed on the wrench at right angles, like an "L" to give the correct torque reading at the wrench. Putting them on in line with the wrench multiplies the delivered torque.

  • Skotten

Posted April 05, 2010 - 12:17 PM

#15

Yes like the first link, a normal long extension bar, long reach bar, adapter bar. (Sorry its been ten years since I was home and my english is getting worse.)

Say you had a bar strait on a bolt and tried to twist it you would only get it so tight, but if the bar was at an angel would would get a little more torque, eah say you had an allen key that was strait no bend you would only get the allen screw so tight, but put a bend on it, that give you just a bit more torque?? The torque wrench measures the force created by twisting, but not that little extra caused from the bad angle of the long bar between the torque wrench and the bolt, and then the oil in the threads added some more pressure like you said??

I am really trying to understand what happened.. I never want this to happen agian ever..

I was looking at digital torque wrenches, which have an angle warning sensor built into them. Why would they warn you, that you were not strait on the nut or bolt?? Maybe I miss understood the meaning of angle warning sensor. Thought about getting one until I saw the price.. 13000SEK and that is with out the 25% tax the the goverment add to everything in Sweden.

  • Skotten

Posted April 05, 2010 - 12:22 PM

#16

I was as an arborist I know the angles on our rigging ropes makes a lot of difference with force

  • Solid State

Posted April 05, 2010 - 02:50 PM

#17

I am really trying to understand what happened.. I never want this to happen agian ever..


What happened was that you chose a method (torque wrench) to tighten a small sensitive fastener that does not give the user the feedback necessary to avoid trouble. In the future go by feel. Make sure the threads are dry and you will have much better success. For that bolt a nut driver with a palm handle works great.

Good luck.

  • TokioMX

Posted April 05, 2010 - 04:20 PM

#18

I think a bolt you need is #5: 95022-06070 BOLT, FLANGE, in stock in Japan. for only 79yen. or less than $1US.

Posted Image


There are some shops that do mail-order for parts, like Motoroman. It's a Honda shop, but they will order Yamaha, Kawi, Suzuki parts for you.

You being from overseas, I'm pretty sure you have to wire money first, might be some minimum purchase, and shipping will be like $20 express, but you can get the bolt. just not by Thursday...

Good luck. Let me know if you need any help.


Forgot to put Motoroman's e-mail address. here you go. shop_notice@motoroman.dip.jp

  • Skotten

Posted April 05, 2010 - 07:25 PM

#19

Perfect!! that part number is all I need, turns out they have used this bolt in ATV motors, since 03. Where did you find the diagram?? I spent all day trying to find one.

  • TokioMX

Posted April 05, 2010 - 07:34 PM

#20

Great, you found the parts. :thumbsup:

Info was from right here in Yamaha Japan Web. Yamaha Parts Catalogue

Looks like you can registar and get access to US version here.





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