WR beats me up


15 replies to this topic
  • Ivan Krashn

Posted March 26, 2010 - 07:03 AM

#1

Hi guys,
New to the site,been lurking for quite a while. I'm a 56 yr old guy who rides with my much younger brother and his even younger friends. Bought my wr450 new in 06, all the free mods, Ti Q4, JD jetting, adjustable leak jet, fuel screw, Turntech batt. It's a beast and has no trouble staying with the ktm 525's in the crowd. However my suspension is stock. We ride a lot of technical gnarly trails with the 3 R's- roots, ruts and rocks and do it at a pretty good clip. The forks in particular beat me up on the smaller sharper stuff, she really hates softball size rocks, get a lot of deflection. Has a harsh initial stroke. Seems like it will skitter right off the trail at times. My brothers 07 KTM doesn't have this problem. Bigger stuff it works ok, I don't bottom out ' but the all day wrestling match with the bars does wear an old feller out.
Any suggestions out there? Before you flame me about using the search button, I have been searching the site and reading for about a week. I weigh about 230 with gear and have new fork and shock springs on the way. AFA revalving goes, there seems to be a multitude of opinions out there as to who and how. I'm not too confident about the local shops doing their thing for big bucks. I am pretty skilled mechanically, could probably handle a revalve with good direction. Not looking to smoke Villapoto here, just want to stay with the younger guys and enjoy it a little more.:thumbsup:
Ivan

  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted March 26, 2010 - 08:30 AM

#2

Hi guys,
New to the site,been lurking for quite a while. I'm a 56 yr old guy who rides with my much younger brother and his even younger friends. Bought my wr450 new in 06, all the free mods, Ti Q4, JD jetting, adjustable leak jet, fuel screw, Turntech batt. It's a beast and has no trouble staying with the ktm 525's in the crowd. However my suspension is stock. We ride a lot of technical gnarly trails with the 3 R's- roots, ruts and rocks and do it at a pretty good clip. The forks in particular beat me up on the smaller sharper stuff, she really hates softball size rocks, get a lot of deflection. Has a harsh initial stroke. Seems like it will skitter right off the trail at times. My brothers 07 KTM doesn't have this problem. Bigger stuff it works ok, I don't bottom out ' but the all day wrestling match with the bars does wear an old feller out.
Any suggestions out there? Before you flame me about using the search button, I have been searching the site and reading for about a week. I weigh about 230 with gear and have new fork and shock springs on the way. AFA revalving goes, there seems to be a multitude of opinions out there as to who and how. I'm not too confident about the local shops doing their thing for big bucks. I am pretty skilled mechanically, could probably handle a revalve with good direction. Not looking to smoke Villapoto here, just want to stay with the younger guys and enjoy it a little more.:thumbsup:
Ivan


I felt my '08 was pretty decent on the rocks, but I hear ya. Since you already ordered the springs, I would see how those work out along with a fresh oil change in the front. The problem with these bikes is that they are built with compromise suspension- - -soft enough springs for the lighter guys along with stiffer valving for the heavy guys, ultimately not working very well for either group. At your weight, it really sounds like you are riding deep in the travel and so up against the stiffer valving. Stiffer springs may make that bike feel a whole lot plusher to you. If that does not completely help the problem, and seeing as you are mechanically inclined, I would contact Dave at Smart Performance http://smartperformanceinc.com/ and see what he can sell you to install yourself in the front. I have yet to see a single review of his suspension mods that was anything less than excellent.

By the way, what spring rates did you end up going with?

  • yz-dwg

Posted March 26, 2010 - 09:05 AM

#3

I am pretty happy with the stock stuff on my '06, I went in about 4 clicks compression and 2-3 rebound front and rear but I havent experimented too much with clickers. I am #190-195 with gear, I hear going up in spring rate will make a big differance even without valving. maybe try the springs and mess with your clickers before considering a valve job

  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted March 26, 2010 - 09:13 AM

#4

I'm about the same weight with gear. What springs did you order. I ended up with .48 for the fronts and then 6.0 spring in the rear. That 6.0 seems like its a bit much for my weight, but that's what was needed to get the sag correct.

Along with that I had a revalve. Definitely call Dave at SmartPerformance (www.smartperformanceinc.com). He will sell you a DIY kit for your forks.

  • Ivan Krashn

Posted March 26, 2010 - 09:18 AM

#5

Thanks for the replies. Went with .48kg/mm in front and 5.6 kg/mm rear. Stock is .46 frt, 5.3 rear

  • wondermuscle

Posted March 26, 2010 - 09:32 AM

#6

Thanks for the replies. Went with .48kg/mm in front and 5.6 kg/mm rear. Stock is .46 frt, 5.3 rear


Krash - You will find that the .48 fronts will exacerbate the deflection in the rocks if you don't revalve the suspension. You can try running a lower oil height, 135mm and adding 5 or so clicks of rebound up front. Also, try backing the compression all the way out.

Our WR's have an odd mid-valve which has a very small spring on top of the shim stack. This spring is meant to blow off when you hit big bumps. Which is does, but it makes the little stuff very harsh. I took this out and put in a regular piston and shim stack. My front end is now planted and does not deflect and still handles the big stuff. I weigh 190lbs and am running one .48 and one .46 spring which give me a .47kg/mm spring rate. The .48's were too heavy for me. Hope this helps a bit, good luck.

If you want to revalve and don't want to pay the big shops I have a friend up in Longview who does great suspension work out of his garage. He has set up a few of my old race bikes. He will valve it however you desire. :thumbsup:

  • Ivan Krashn

Posted March 26, 2010 - 10:07 AM

#7

Thanks Wondermuscle. I'm a bit heavier than you and I also run an oversize tank. I figure the .48 should be good. .50 was considered but I backed off a little. I figure if the fork will sit higher in the stroke it should plush up a bit by using some travel before it hits the stiffer valving. I'm all about a revalve but I think I can do it myself. Just need a tool to hold the damper rod. The mechanics of fork disassembly and reassembly are not rocket science. I've done a LOT of mechanical work, building engines, transmissions, cars from the ground up. However, coming up with the perfect shim stack IS rocket science to me. So far , Smart performance and Racetech seem like good options for me. I have the measuring tools and a decent shop to work in, plus I enjoy learning about the inner workings of things. With good instruction(which size shim goes where) I'm pretty confident I can handle it.
I understand that the spring on the stock valve assy sacks out after a while and contributes to harshness. Replacing that spring and valve seems like a good idea to me.
Keep it coming guys, this fork stuff is intriguing to me.

  • Gunner354

Posted March 26, 2010 - 04:31 PM

#8

I owned an 07 wr450 and thought it was a good bike until I rode an 09 YZ 450. Not only is the suspension way better but the yz just doesn't tire you out.
Buy an 09 yz and install a Rekluse. You will be amazed how much better the YZ is.

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  • davidl9999

Posted March 26, 2010 - 04:38 PM

#9

I almost :) at how soft and unstable my '07 WR250F and '09 WR450F were after being resprung but not revalved. A trip to RaceTech for one and Factory Connection for the other, and I was a happy :thumbsup:

Not the cheap route, but it was needed. IMO, it's a shame that they come this way, but Yamaha has to sell bikes to the masses. :lol:

  • Ivan Krashn

Posted March 26, 2010 - 05:12 PM

#10

I hear ya Gunner. However , the WR is paid for, gotta work with what I've got.
Davidl, I'm vey interested in your approach. Who did which end and are you happy with the results? I've heard from a couple guys that really liked the Race Tech valves along with a spring change. I'm ok with the shock for now, seemed to be more tunable than the fork, the rear behaves pretty good. I figure the heavier spring in the rear may actually improve the steering in the tight stuff. PM me with your particulars if you like.
Installed a Scotts damper with sub mount today. Going to check it out tomorrow.

  • Gunner354

Posted March 26, 2010 - 05:22 PM

#11

I hear ya Gunner. However , the WR is paid for, gotta work with what I've got.
Davidl, I'm vey interested in your approach. Who did which end and are you happy with the results? I've heard from a couple guys that really liked the Race Tech valves along with a spring change. I'm ok with the shock for now, seemed to be more tunable than the fork, the rear behaves pretty good. I figure the heavier spring in the rear may actually improve the steering in the tight stuff. PM me with your particulars if you like.
Installed a Scotts damper with sub mount today. Going to check it out tomorrow.


I understand. I was in the same boat, wr was paid for. I suggest you ride an 08 or 09 yz if you get a chance. I guarantee If you ride one the wr will be for sale. The yz is that much better.

  • trailman006

Posted March 26, 2010 - 06:11 PM

#12

Hey, I like the 3-Rs description. Ride alot of that here in Pa. with a younger group of guys,all on YZ250's. I have a '05 Wr450 and sent to suspension out to Factory Connection. Was like a completely different bike. Front end did not deflect off of stuff anymore, bike rode over junk and you didnt feel it. It actually felt lighter.Didnt make me any faster though,just easier to go the pace. Was a pricey upgrade but I would do it again after these results.

  • Ivan Krashn

Posted March 26, 2010 - 08:02 PM

#13

Hey Gunner, you trying to get me divorced :lol:? I should stay off new yz's for my own good, if you know what I mean. I've read some articles about them, they sound great. Sure wish a guy could just line up all the bikes he's interested in give em all a ride. I'm happy being the blue guy in a sea of orange.:thumbsup:

  • davidl9999

Posted March 28, 2010 - 10:56 AM

#14

I hear ya Gunner. However , the WR is paid for, gotta work with what I've got.
Davidl, I'm vey interested in your approach. Who did which end and are you happy with the results? I've heard from a couple guys that really liked the Race Tech valves along with a spring change. I'm ok with the shock for now, seemed to be more tunable than the fork, the rear behaves pretty good. I figure the heavier spring in the rear may actually improve the steering in the tight stuff. PM me with your particulars if you like.
Installed a Scotts damper with sub mount today. Going to check it out tomorrow.

RaceTech did the 250F front/back, Factory Connection got the 450F front/back. I really like the FC preload ring for the rear shock; it makes adjusting the spring a lot easier. As far as I know, RT doesn't offer a similar part. TBQH, after the revalve, both bikes felt great, needed only a little tweaking until I was happy(est) with the ride, and were nothing like the ones I took home from the showrooms. :thumbsup:

Here's the preload ring with the bearing:
http://www.factoryco...ory_Code=FCSHKP

  • Ivan Krashn

Posted March 28, 2010 - 02:18 PM

#15

Davidl- Thanks for getting back to me. Got my new springs front and rear and will be installing gold valves in the forks myself. BTW, went riding yesterday, tight single track mostly, first ride with the Scotts damper and submount. Raising the bars with the submount is a good thing for me. I'm 6-1, makes it much easier to stand up. The damper is superb, cut down a lot of deflection, front wheel felt planted. I raised the forks 3/8" in the triple clamps to quicken the steering in the tight stuff, which it did. I was afraid I might get some headshake at high speed in loose stuff but the damper took care of that. 60 mph no problem.
I already have the torrington bearing on my rear shock. The bearing FC sells is also used on coilover shocks on dirt track cars. Speedway motors sells them $30 a pair. They're made for a 2.5" I.D. spring. I cut a small length of old inner tube and stretched it over the adjuster and bearing to try and keep the big chunks out.
Happy Trails
Ivan

  • davidl9999

Posted March 28, 2010 - 09:08 PM

#16

heheh, what can I say? I like the blue *bling* ! :thumbsup:




 
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