Oil



19 replies to this topic
  • AZ Thumpdaddy

Posted May 20, 2003 - 06:42 PM

#1

Okay fellow BRP owners,

Question about oil - what is everyone using????
GN4, Maxima, Amsoil, Mobil 1 redcap, synthetic versus non,etc.
There is a nice long thread in the XR400 forum about Maxima4 and Amsoil but I think they are partially promoted by those that sell the stuff. Rockatt says red cap, Qadsan says Maxima, I'm so confused. Also, what is the change interval - the book says 600 miles, should it be less? A greased pig is a happy pig.
Bring it oinker riders! :)

  • Burren_Rider

Posted May 20, 2003 - 08:00 PM

#2

G'Day,

I don't wish to confuse things any further but I have had a fair bit of success with Repsol's semi synthetic oil in my bike. It has noticeably improved the gearbox action compared with the full synthetic I was running previouly and is cheaper too. I have also heard from some reputable XR mechanics that using a full synthetic can lead to glazed bores unless the bike is mercilessly flogged. Unfortunatley I lack the ability to flog a 650 for any lenghth of time so I decided to stick with the semi sythetic oil just to be safe.

  • qadsan

Posted May 20, 2003 - 08:13 PM

#3

Qadsan says Maxima



I don't use Maxima in my XR650R, but it’s a good oil and so is Amsoil, Neo, RP, Redline, Shaeffer, Mobil MX4T, etc, and many others. I simply use Chevron Delo 400 15W-40 heavy duty oil found at Costco, Wal-Mart, Autozone, etc. I've been using it for a very long time (more than 20 years) with good results and it cost less than $6 per gallon. The base oil is good enough, but more importantly it has a robust additive package to meet the demanding needs of our bikes in my opinion. I change my oil & filter every 300 to 500 miles.

There’s a ton of marketing going on with motor oils and everyone is going to claim their product is the best, but there’s a lot of oils out there that are ‘good enough’ to do a very fine job well past the useful life of many bikes. To me it’s a matter of where you draw the line. There’s certainly no harm in using the highest quality juice you can find, but I just don’t see the need for the extra cost in my application. If I was to ride lots of miles every year and always rode it in a cleaner environment (not in the dirt), planned to keep my bike forever and also wanted extended drain intervals, then I’d be looking at a top of the line true synthetic oil for that application. The reality for me is that I ride in the dirt and always change my oil & filter within 500 miles and Delo does a fine job of protecting my engine internals well past the useful life of my bike. I generally believe that if a person uses decent oil for a given application and performs timely maintenance that their engine will not suffer from any type of mechanical failure due to the oil itself. Too many people simply hear the term synthetic and assume its superior in all applications. Once the hydrodynamic oil film shears in an oil whether its synthetic or petroleum based, the only thing left to protect the engine internals are the barrier additives and that's what's been reduced in the newer automobile oils (due to emissions, etc.) in addition to certain friction modifiers being added. It's the totality of the oil package that makes a good finished product and good barrier additives are extremely important with bikes that share the engine & gearbox oil.

  • Rokatt88

Posted May 21, 2003 - 05:07 AM

#4

T-Diddy! Yes, this oil thing is pretty interesting. I've learned so much from this site about oil! I currently have the Mobile 1 Red Cap in my scoot. I actually bought a gallon of Delo for the next oil change after Qadsan's review on the XR 400 thread. After our last ride at Ocotillo Wells, and the pin hole leak in my radiator hose, I discovered when I got home that I rode quite aways with very little (if any) coolant. Didn't have a choice as we were waaaay far away from camp! :) My bike never seemed to lose power and for all intents and purposes ran great! If it was running hot or overheating it sure didn't feel like it! And it was cookin' there (100+ degrees), right? I just picked up some more Mobile 1. Here is a case that when the unexpected happens, maybe overdoing it with a quality oil can make the difference between getting back to your truck or paying mucho dinero for a new engine! Oh, and by the way...my bike shifts better with De Red Cap over the Honda Gold. Just my measly dos pesos worth. :D

  • Burren_Rider

Posted May 21, 2003 - 01:29 PM

#5

G'Day,

This is nothing to do with oil but I thought it might be helpful all the same. I have spoken to a number of people over the years that say pepper can be used to seal small cracks and holes in radiators and the like. I haven't had to use it yet but I still carry it on the off chance that it may work if needed. I am not sure whether this would have helped with hole in your radiator hose or if it's effectiveness is limited to metals, but I have heard it enough times to believe it is worth a shot if you get stuck. All you do is add it to your radiator and it should find it's way to the hole - I assume it reacts with the air to form a seal of sorts, but I am not a chemist so don't quote me on that.

  • Rokatt88

Posted May 21, 2003 - 03:17 PM

#6

G'Day My Brutha From Down Undah!

Yeah, that was funky out there in the nether world (desert). When I realized that I was leaking fluid I immediatly thought that I had a hole in the radiator. I just couldn't tell where it was spewing from! I had visions of dollar signs flying around my head (heat stroke?). Once I got home and yanked the tank off was when I discovered the little rascal. :D It was the equalizing tube connecting the two radiators. Ya know, that hose is made from cheezie rubber. I got me some industrial strength tubing from my bro-hams at Pep Boy's with some cool F-1 Racing hose clamps. My bike will really haul ass now! :D As far as pepper in the radiator to stop leaks, I think that would work with a metal pin hole. A hole in your stock tubing wouldn't work in my opinion as the rubber is too flexie. Still, a good suggestion just the same. Hang Ten my Ozzie Friend :) :D

  • smashinz2002

Posted May 21, 2003 - 06:23 PM

#7

Hi. About the oil. I have used Honda GN4 since I got my bike back in June of '00. No probs to report. I keep track of the mileage in a notebook, and change the oil every three months or 600 miles, whichever comes first. No probs so far. I do have the power up kit installed, but I only trail ride and dual sport, no hard core racing, but it is ridden moderately hard at times.
L.L.

P.S. I noticed some people use automotive oil in their bikes. I wonder if they realize that motorcycle oils contain a different mixture of additives which auto oils don't have. Motorcycle oils have to double as transmission fluid also.

  • JackAttack

Posted May 21, 2003 - 07:04 PM

#8

I've been using Castrol 20w-50 Automotive oil. Change it every 200 miles(3 rides). So far so good. Hate to spend all that $$$ for 200-300 miles of engine work. There is no good oil that will not protect being used for that short of time. It goes on sale all the time too! :)

Qadsan don't be pissed at me! :D

  • qadsan

Posted May 21, 2003 - 07:39 PM

#9

I've been using Castrol 20w-50 Automotive oil...



OK, I'm pissed :D, but not at you. My son through his arm out while pitching last night and can't move his arm very well. It's nothing too serious based on a visit to the doctors, but now he's not going to be able to pitch in the playoff's and my wife is now talking about canceling our riding trip this weekend :)


You won't find any clutch unfriendly FM's (Friction Modifiers) in any 20W-50 motor oil :D. The automotive oils I'd be especially worried about running in a motorcycle that shares the oil in both the engine & gearbox are the 5W-XX oils unless they are top of the line synthetics such as a multiduty oil like Mobil's Delvac 1 (5W-40), which is one of the best over the counter synthetic oils out there. Delvac 1 is built with a very robust additive package and top of the line base stock (awesome product :D).

Many of the newer automotive oils in addition to clutch unfriendly FM's have significantly reduced the zinc and phosphorus from their additive package due to emission issues. Phosphorous deteriorates the catalyst in converters, but its also an essential element as one of the best AW (Anti-Wear), oxidation and rust agents, ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate).

  • JackAttack

Posted May 21, 2003 - 08:31 PM

#10

Qadsan,

Sorry to hear about your son(and your ridin). Lots of ice(till it hurts), is the only cure. I've done it a few times myself. :D

Thanks for the info.(most went over my head) :D

Good luck in the playoffs :)

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  • AZ Thumpdaddy

Posted May 27, 2003 - 02:35 AM

#11

After extensive research I went with Mobile MX4T. Although at $8 a quart I should be drinking it. After putting it in, Betty fired right up and seemed to shift a bit smoother.
Rockatt - do you want to by some Mobile 1 red cap cheap?
Thanks all for the input. :)

  • Rokatt88

Posted May 27, 2003 - 05:39 AM

#12

4-Stroke Father Six-Five-Oh, Why yes, I would! :) Havasu was great! Me & Nick (Boy) did a 50 mile loop (got at 5 am. It was hot out there!) to War Eagle & American Eagle Mines includung a nice little wash straff to the "Bat" Cave. Later in the day Sarah (Girl) wanted to go out so we played follow the leader at the chalk hills until she got too hot. We rode for a good while though! She's a trooper! :D We need a Graemlin for "Proud Dad"! :D

Wadd-Ya say...Take the Green Bikes to Lake Morena this weekend?! :D

  • qadsan

Posted May 27, 2003 - 06:34 AM

#13

Mobil MX4T is a top of the line motorcycle oil :) and uses several AW (Anti-Wear) components unlike some of the other motorcycle oils, which typically just have higher concentrations of Zinc Dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP), sulfur and phosphorous compounds (S-P). What's different about MX4T than ‘some’ of the other motorcycle oils is that it also uses boron in higher concentrations. Boron by itself stemming from either Sodium Di-Borate or Potassium Triborate is a multifunctional additive that when used in the right concentrations works as a clutch friendly FM (Friction Modifier), an AW additive (especially with aluminum), a detergent, anti-oxidant and anti-corrosive additive. I believe boron and moly (MoTDC / not MoS2) will be the wave of the future for AW additives in many newer oils as they are introduced or reformulated.

Did you get the idea of MX4T from the MCN article? It’s interesting to note that although the Honda oils didn’t do as well as some of the other oils; it’s my understanding that Exxon/Mobil makes Honda oil based on what I’ve read a ways back, but GN4/HP4 is quite different than MX4T.

  • Dutch

Posted May 27, 2003 - 12:47 PM

#14

Betty??

  • Terrain Rider 4z

Posted May 27, 2003 - 04:25 PM

#15

Dutch,

When I saw that last week I was :) irrate!!! How dare Thumpdaddy take your bike's name. That is just not fair and I demand that the name Betty be removed from his bike and reserved for Bang Bang herself.

Bang Bang Betty, Betty bangs all day, who we gonna bang on when Betty goes away.

  • AZ Thumpdaddy

Posted May 27, 2003 - 06:27 PM

#16

Dutch - my humble apologies but I thought they were all Betty's? I would never ride another TTer's girl. You can have the name back. :D

Qadsan - I did read the article. But, basically made the selection based on you recommendations and the fact that if it is $8 a quart, it is either that good or I am paying a lot for perceived value. :D

There is nothing like good oil to make a "Betty" sing. :)

  • Dutch

Posted May 28, 2003 - 12:47 AM

#17

Apologie accepted :) - I was a little concerned, "Betty" is sort of a party girl who likes to show off :D - We will be spending next week in Tennessee and N Carolina with about 60 others running the fire roads around Deals Gap.

  • Rokatt88

Posted May 28, 2003 - 05:25 AM

#18

[/QUOTE] There is nothing like good oil to make a "Betty" sing. :)

[/QUOTE]

Don't you mean "Squeal"? :D

  • flyinW

Posted May 28, 2003 - 08:44 AM

#19

Ok Here's a website that I thought had some very valid points...

http://www.nightride...ch/oiltest1.htm

happy reading

  • aussiexr

Posted May 28, 2003 - 11:07 PM

#20

G`Day
Try this link very good reading.
www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm
just remember oils ain`t oils ! :)





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