What Oil to Run - Synthetic or Regular?


49 replies to this topic
  • delmas

Posted January 26, 2010 - 04:32 PM

#21

So you guys may have some fun with this, but perhaps someone can help me understand why a YZ's clutch would run any differently than say a CRF as it relates to motor oil used?

Don't they both pretty much run the same clutch plate materials and have a basket, inner hub, etc?

http://motocrossacti...60544EA044A5413


any oil syn or non syn should work in a clutch as long as there are no friction modifiers

Edited by delmas, January 26, 2010 - 04:33 PM.
ss


  • delmas

Posted January 26, 2010 - 04:36 PM

#22

I recommend Amsoil MCF, with Mobil 1 Racing 4T as a second choice. Most Maxima oils are also good. The only oils to truly avoid are those labeled JASO MB, and possibly API EC-II. If you use an automotive oil, change it frequently until you have a used oil analysis that shows it will stay at its rated viscosity.

http://www.thumperta...432#post2685432


amsoil is execellent oil

Edited by delmas, January 26, 2010 - 04:36 PM.
v


  • grayracer513

Posted January 26, 2010 - 04:38 PM

#23

any oil syn or non syn should work in a clutch as long as there are no friction modifiers

Another myth. Your oil is probably loaded with "friction modifiers". Some of the best available JASO MA2 (wet clutch specific) oils have a bunch of molybdenum in them, too. As long as the oil is not JASO MB or API EC-II, it should not be an issue.

  • Wikki

Posted January 26, 2010 - 04:50 PM

#24

Motul V300 no issues and smells good to.

  • delmas

Posted January 26, 2010 - 05:10 PM

#25

Another myth. Your oil is probably loaded with "friction modifiers". Some of the best available JASO MA2 (wet clutch specific) oils have a bunch of molybdenum in them, too. As long as the oil is not JASO MB or API EC-II, it should not be an issue.


if there are wet clutch oils with friction modifiers that will work





then so as I said and I think we agree if the oil does not have friction modifires
it would work fine if it is quality oil

" your oil is probaly loaded with friction modifiers"
How do you know what oi lI use?

amsiol that you recomend does not contain friction modifiers
and is jaso ma2 as stated by amsiol

AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil contains no friction modifiers and promotes smooth shifting and positive clutch engagement. AMSOIL MCF controls heat and prevents slippage and glazing, helping improve clutch life. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil meets the wet clutch frictional requirements of JASO Standard T903: 2006, MA/MA2 and ISO-L-EMA2 of ISO Standard 24254:2007.

change oil often period

  • highmarker

Posted January 26, 2010 - 06:32 PM

#26

Oils that contain friction modifiers (like soluble moly) are not necessarily friction reduced energy conserving oils. In order to achieve EC frictional characteristics you also need low viscosity. As long as you stay at the high end of the 30w scale on up, 40, 50 etc. there is no worry about moly or other so called friction modifiers. So amsoils 10w40 "contains no FM's" is just a bunch of marketing pablum.

There was a day when some additives and a few oils used a solid form of moly that would be a problem depositing on clutch surfaces. That is when the advisory started. No modern oils use this form of moly.

Moly is used because it acts synergistic with zinc/ phos. The 2 together work better than more of each one by itself. One method of dealing with reduced levels of zinc.

  • delmas

Posted January 26, 2010 - 06:49 PM

#27

Oils that contain friction modifiers (like soluble moly) are not necessarily friction reduced energy conserving oils. In order to achieve EC frictional characteristics you also need low viscosity. As long as you stay at the high end of the 30w scale on up, 40, 50 etc. there is no worry about moly or other so called friction modifiers. So amsoils 10w40 "contains no FM's" is just a bunch of marketing pablum.

There was a day when some additives and a few oils used a solid form of moly that would be a problem depositing on clutch surfaces. That is when the advisory started. No modern oils use this form of moly.

Moly is used because it acts synergistic with zinc/ phos. The 2 together work better than more of each one by itself. One method of dealing with reduced levels of zinc.


So does the amsiol have FMs or not

  • mx369

Posted January 26, 2010 - 06:52 PM

#28

Im sorry but thats what the instructions said in my new hinson boxes!!!!!!!!!!

  • locomike

Posted January 26, 2010 - 07:23 PM

#29

Im sorry but thats what the instructions said in my new hinson boxes!!!!!!!!!!


Hinson may be telling you what is best for your clutch, not what is best for your motor.

  • highmarker

Posted January 26, 2010 - 07:24 PM

#30

So does the amsiol have FMs or not



Wouldn't matter if it did or didn't at a 40w. Amsoil also is NOT Jaso certified, because they do not submit for testing, have to take their word on that too. Not a big deal, but just goes to show product marketing is just that, marketing that's aimed at a demographic. In this case motorcyclist who heard through the grapevine FM adds are bad and Jaso MA is good.

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  • delmas

Posted January 26, 2010 - 07:31 PM

#31

http://www.amsoil.co...efront/mcf.aspx
Maybe they are telling a lie

  • twenty34

Posted January 26, 2010 - 07:34 PM

#32

I just had an epiphany after reading these threads.

Many moons ago and going back several bikes, GR opened my eyes to the now infamous Amsoil study. As such, I've been using it since and in blue, red and orange bikes. On occasion, I've also run the Racing 4T when short in supply of my first choice.

In short, I've always felt the arguments made by GR and the study helped solidify in my mind the additional benefits of not only Synthetic, but that quality does differ between brands.

So far, all is well!

Edited by rickk, January 26, 2010 - 08:00 PM.


  • twenty34

Posted January 26, 2010 - 07:36 PM

#33

Wouldn't matter if it did or didn't at a 40w. Amsoil also is NOT Jaso certified, because they do not submit for testing, have to take their word on that too. Not a big deal, but just goes to show product marketing is just that, marketing that's aimed at a demographic. In this case motorcyclist who heard through the grapevine FM adds are bad and Jaso MA is good.


Just an FYI. Marketing is one thing, but misrepresenting a products ingredients or certifications, for example, is illegal. Two different concepts to keep in mind.

  • 642MX

Posted January 26, 2010 - 07:55 PM

#34

WOW! Scamsoil retails for $10.35 a liter?.... I can buy a whole gallon of Rotella for that! :ride:


EDIT: Thats $10.35 a quart!

  • twenty34

Posted January 26, 2010 - 08:01 PM

#35

I would say for a 2002 YZ444 Rotella would do the job, but in a 8K bike, some feel better using higher quality and expensive oil. No big deal.

  • locomike

Posted January 26, 2010 - 08:01 PM

#36

Yeah, Amsoil is great stuff buy my local Walmart has Mobil MX4T for $8.95 a quart, so I use Mobil.

  • 642MX

Posted January 26, 2010 - 08:12 PM

#37

I would say for a 2002 YZ444 Rotella would do the job, but in a 8K bike, some feel better using higher quality and expensive oil. No big deal.


Way to discuss something without being a dick! I don't think the year or the value of my bike have anything to do with this discussion.

FWIW, I've used Rotella in many bikes... And I've NEVER SEEN AN OIL RELATED FAILURE! And until I do, I'll keep using it and recommending it. :ride:

  • twenty34

Posted January 26, 2010 - 08:17 PM

#38

FWIW, I've used Rotella in many bikes... And I've NEVER SEEN AN OIL RELATED FAILURE! And until I do, I'll keep using it and recommending it. :ride:


Funny, I feel the same way.

BTW: Why the heck are you so irate in this discussion? It's just oil we are talking about I thought.

  • 642MX

Posted January 26, 2010 - 08:31 PM

#39

Funny, I feel the same way.


So what if you do experience a failure with a high end oil? Are you going to Walmart and get some Rotella?... :lol:

BTW: Why the heck are you so irate in this discussion? It's just oil we are talking about I thought.


I'm not irate.... you haven't seen that yet. :ride:

  • grayracer513

Posted January 26, 2010 - 08:49 PM

#40

if there are wet clutch oils with friction modifiers that will work ...
then so as I said and I think we agree if the oil does not have friction modifires
it would work fine if it is quality oil

" your oil is probaly loaded with friction modifiers"
How do you know what oi lI use?

amsiol that you recomend does not contain friction modifiers
and is jaso ma2 as stated by amsiol

AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil contains no friction modifiers and promotes smooth shifting and positive clutch engagement. AMSOIL MCF controls heat and prevents slippage and glazing, helping improve clutch life. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil meets the wet clutch frictional requirements of JASO Standard T903: 2006, MA/MA2 and ISO-L-EMA2 of ISO Standard 24254:2007.

change oil often period...

...So does the amsiol have FMs or not


I don't know what oil you use, but by your posts, I'm going to guess Amsoil.

It really depends on what you consider "friction modifiers". The term isn't defined well in industry trade law. I am an Amsoil user, and preferred customer, and have been for quite some time. That does not change the fact that it contains high levels of zinc "anti-wear" compounds, and quite a bit of moly compounds for the same purpose. At one time, these were all considered friction reducers, and that is a fairly accurate description of one of the things a boundary lubricant accomplishes. But the oil does not contain these in concentrations regarded as high enough to qualify the oil as "energy conserving", so it isn't a "friction modified" oil, and they don't have to call it that. Besides, as was pointed out, no 40 wt will ever be rated EC II, anyway. This is one of those areas of the oil bidness where literal accuracy suffers a bit, unfortunately.

Im sorry but thats what the instructions said in my new hinson boxes!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry, too, but it's still ridiculous. The JASO standard, MA, and the later MA2, are oil standards that address primarily two issues: boundary lubrication and compatibility with wet clutches. Most contemporary motorcycle oils, including synthetics, are either certified MA/MA2, or labeled as meeting that standard, which specifically means that they are perfectly OK to use with clutch components made by Hinson or anyone else.





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