2009 wr450f suspension questions - need help


48 replies to this topic
  • drick

Posted January 17, 2010 - 08:55 PM

#21

Bullshit. I've got a friend that is racing his bike completely stock and is kicking ass with it in D37. Ofcourse, the springs work for his weight.

It's up to you if you want to drop the coin now or not. i was giving you one option.

John


John,

I appreciate your advice, and am not discounting it.

My question is the same though. based on your experience do you think that i will end up needing to do this at some later time.

  • tribalbc

Posted January 17, 2010 - 09:29 PM

#22

Bullshit. I've got a friend that is racing his bike completely stock and is kicking ass with it in D37. Ofcourse, the springs work for his weight.

It's up to you if you want to drop the coin now or not. i was giving you one option.

John


Well like I said I raced 2yrs senior a hare scrambles with just a spring and fork oil level change and it worked.
But now with my revalved suspension I realize how much I was compensating for my suspension with my riding. The difference in rider input is night and day.
I agree with the bucks thing. I race on a shoe string budget, I'm the guy staying in a tent when everyone else is in their RV, that's why I originally never revalved. But when I look back on it now that would have been money well spent from the get go.
I guess it's all whats in your budget :banghead:

  • drick

Posted January 17, 2010 - 11:11 PM

#23

Well like I said I raced 2yrs senior a hare scrambles with just a spring and fork oil level change and it worked.
But now with my revalved suspension I realize how much I was compensating for my suspension with my riding. The difference in rider input is night and day.
I agree with the bucks thing. I race on a shoe string budget, I'm the guy staying in a tent when everyone else is in their RV, that's why I originally never revalved. But when I look back on it now that would have been money well spent from the get go.
I guess it's all whats in your budget :banghead:


ok, so in summary..

i could make incremental changes to what i have, and it will get better. however, at some point i will more than likely do the full blown rebuild, so budget permitting it would make sense to do it now instead of waiting.

my budget allows me to do the whole enchilada now, so that is the direction i'm leaning in.

i cannot ride the bike as is and enjoy it, that is how bad the ride quality is for me

  • JDLowrance

Posted January 18, 2010 - 06:49 AM

#24

Depends on the pace you'll be riding as well. If you are going to be flat chat at race pace you may need a revalve. If you are plonking around on trails at a good clip springs will probably be enough.

I was always going to have mine revalved and sprung. I'm a healthy? 250lbs and I ride pretty quick (for my age). I sent my stuff to Factory Connection because they got a great review in Dirt Rider for their WR set-up. So far it's been a work in progress. It'll be going back to them here shortly to correct some issues I'm having (too much HSC in the mid stroke of the shock, not enough mid speed LSC in the fork or shock, rebound seems pretty good at the moment, my adjustments are nearing the end of their range). That's why I say you need to know what you want or you can get lost with valving. Just having some one revalve your bike and call it good is a crap shoot. It may or may not be good for you.

If you start with proper springs you have a good base-line and you can progress from there. Really teaches you how all the various adjustments affect the suspension performance.

If money is no object you can try a tuner, most guarantee their work and will revalve until you are happy.

Your choice.

  • drick

Posted January 18, 2010 - 07:56 AM

#25

Depends on the pace you'll be riding as well. If you are going to be flat chat at race pace you may need a revalve. If you are plonking around on trails at a good clip springs will probably be enough.

I was always going to have mine revalved and sprung. I'm a healthy? 250lbs and I ride pretty quick (for my age). I sent my stuff to Factory Connection because they got a great review in Dirt Rider for their WR set-up. So far it's been a work in progress. It'll be going back to them here shortly to correct some issues I'm having (too much HSC in the mid stroke of the shock, not enough mid speed LSC in the fork or shock, rebound seems pretty good at the moment, my adjustments are nearing the end of their range). That's why I say you need to know what you want or you can get lost with valving. Just having some one revalve your bike and call it good is a crap shoot. It may or may not be good for you.

If you start with proper springs you have a good base-line and you can progress from there. Really teaches you how all the various adjustments affect the suspension performance.

If money is no object you can try a tuner, most guarantee their work and will revalve until you are happy.

Your choice.


JD,

a few more questions for you (sorry for all this, but my bike is completely disassembled right now, and i need to make a decision which way i'm going to go today).

if i do the springs only, and i / my mechanic friend cannot do the work (which is the case) then i'll need to have them sent out to be done. when you factor in labor to the mix, does this then change your thoughts that it will be cheaper to do this way?

can you give me some idea of what you've spent so far on your set up so far (all in, and ballpark #'s are ok) to do the springs only, and if you did the labor yourself? if you did the labor yourself, what do think the going rate is for a shop to do it, and can you recommend someone up here on NorCal / Silicon Valley that does good work?

  • ASternad

Posted January 18, 2010 - 07:59 AM

#26

This is my 2nd bike I have slapped re valved suspension on.
I just consider that a cost of buying a bike now a days, like tires, gas, registration, etc.
I've gone the Springs and oil only route before & have found a re-valve is my best option. For me a properly setup bike will allow progress in ones ability & raise confidence. Since you've got a buddy to perform the R/R, go for the gusto.

Next things you need to look at is:
1. Potentially higher bars, if you stand alot. (Which you should)
2. Frt stock tire has got to go, but not to worry cause it won't last long ridding at Hollister. Scrub a dub dub.
3. Exhaust - When your ready to release the hounds.
4. CDI - if you have the st-udder issue, some don't.

  • ASternad

Posted January 18, 2010 - 08:02 AM

#27

can you recommend someone up here on NorCal / Silicon Valley that does good work?


Dave @ Smart Performance Inc. - Los Gatos CA. (could you be any closer?) (Dave did mine and I will only use him from now on)

Dicks Racing - Roseville, CA 95661 (Lot's of friends have used em & recommend him)

Trail Tricks - Frazier Park CA 93225 (Had em do my KTM450, Good Job!)

Edited by ASternad, January 18, 2010 - 08:08 AM.
More reccomendations


  • drick

Posted January 18, 2010 - 08:04 AM

#28

This is my 2nd bike I have slapped re valved suspension on.
I just consider that a cost of buying a bike now a days, like tires, gas, registration, etc.
I've gone the Springs and oil only route before & have found a re-valve is my best option. For me a properly setup bike will allow progress in ones ability & raise confidence. Since you've got a buddy to perform the R/R, go for gusto.

Next things you need to look at is:
1. Potentially higher bars, if you stand alot. (Which you should)
2. Frt stock tire has got to go, but not to worry cause it won't last long ridding at Hollister. Scrub a dub dub.
3. Exhaust - When your ready to release the hounds.
4. CDI - if you have the st-udder issue, some don't.


while i'm a n00b on the suspension crap, i did however do a lot of reading and followed the same exhaust template that i used on my raptor which opened it right up and is bulletproof. so far, no CDI issues (after i did the grey wire).

grey wire - done
throttle screw - done
fmf q4 S/A silencer - done (should have got the titanium but RockyMountain doesn't carry it)
fmf megabomb titanium header - done
fmf jet kit - done
No Toil Super-Flo Air Filter Kit - done

bars are ok for now until i stack a few times and then i'll likely replace them as suggested.

same thing goes for front tire, but it's fine for now and i agree hollister will eat it up.

  • drick

Posted January 18, 2010 - 08:07 AM

#29

Dave @ Smart Performance Inc. - Los Gatos CA. (could you be any closer?)

Dicks Racing - Roseville, CA 95661


Dave is the one i'm talking to about the suspension already and he seems like he knows his business cold

Roseville is a little off the beaten track (3 hours each way), but good to know.

  • ASternad

Posted January 18, 2010 - 08:12 AM

#30

he seems like he knows his business cold


Yep, he has been referred to as the rocket scientist of suspension.

You will be impressed and as far a cost goes, I have found him to be less than other builders.

And the kick ass "stickers" you get with the package.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • mlynn450

Posted January 18, 2010 - 08:41 AM

#31

I put all the money I could afford at the time in my o7 WR 450 into the engine. I put up with that crappy suspension for most of three years. The end of last summer I got the phase 4 kit and Dave's fluid. I set it up for MX,But it was a little to harsh ,so I tore it back apart and set it up for aggressive woods. It's a perfect happy medium for the places
i ride and my ability. For the cost and time It is absolutely the best mod yet. Should have done it first.:banghead:

  • erickdj

Posted January 18, 2010 - 08:48 AM

#32

John,

I appreciate your advice, and am not discounting it.

My question is the same though. based on your experience do you think that i will end up needing to do this at some later time.


I'd say that you're at the perfect point to go with a full blown suspension upgrade. At 180lbs I was VERY disappointed with the stock suspension. One day I found a full yz suspension already revalved by ESP for a STEAL of a price. Did the yz suspension swap and never looked back, the difference was night/day. Regarding your question, I'd say that over time you would end up doing incremental suspension upgrades if you don't go all out now, which would probably cost more and take more time in the end. When it's all said and done, you could be kicking yourself for not doing it right away to begin with.

  • drick

Posted January 18, 2010 - 10:30 AM

#33

I'd say that you're at the perfect point to go with a full blown suspension upgrade. At 180lbs I was VERY disappointed with the stock suspension. One day I found a full yz suspension already revalved by ESP for a STEAL of a price. Did the yz suspension swap and never looked back, the difference was night/day. Regarding your question, I'd say that over time you would end up doing incremental suspension upgrades if you don't go all out now, which would probably cost more and take more time in the end. When it's all said and done, you could be kicking yourself for not doing it right away to begin with.


ok, i just called 2 other local shops and it's now a consensus. everyone says the same thing, new springs on f&r and a "re-valve" (although this seems to mean different things to different shops) are mandatory based on my weight and what comes in the bike stock.

seems like everyone charges about the same, so Dave's price seems fair

Edited by drick, January 18, 2010 - 10:53 AM.


  • erickdj

Posted January 18, 2010 - 02:33 PM

#34

ok, i just called 2 other local shops and it's now a consensus. everyone says the same thing, new springs on f&r and a "re-valve" (although this seems to mean different things to different shops) are mandatory based on my weight and what comes in the bike stock.

seems like everyone charges about the same, so Dave's price seems fair


so what are you going to have done to it at smartperformance and how much $ will it come to?

  • drick

Posted January 18, 2010 - 03:08 PM

#35

so what are you going to have done to it at smartperformance and how much $ will it come to?


well, he is not working today so everything we've been discussing has been over email to date.

however, as i understand it i'm going to get his wr phase 4 kit (http://www.thumperta...ad.php?t=753593), new springs front and rear that match my weight, and some other random pieces parts to round out the installation. finally, his magic lubricant to top it all off.

i'm not sure on what etiquette here is on repeating pricing, so i'll just say that he is competitive with the other 2 local shops i spoke to who are offering to do essentially the same thing, but with less/no experience on the WR's.

  • JDLowrance

Posted January 18, 2010 - 05:26 PM

#36

ok, i just called 2 other local shops and it's now a consensus. everyone says the same thing, new springs on f&r and a "re-valve" (although this seems to mean different things to different shops) are mandatory based on my weight and what comes in the bike stock.

seems like everyone charges about the same, so Dave's price seems fair


If you called 20 different suspension tuners you'd get the same answere each time..."springs and a re-valve". Re-valves are where they make all of their money.

Sounds like you've made up your mind which is cool. I'm sure it'll work out for you.

Let us know.

John

  • drick

Posted January 18, 2010 - 08:19 PM

#37

If you called 20 different suspension tuners you'd get the same answere each time..."springs and a re-valve". Re-valves are where they make all of their money.

Sounds like you've made up your mind which is cool. I'm sure it'll work out for you.

Let us know.

John


interestingly enough, the re-valve doesn't seem to be all that expensive. i was expecting it to be a larger portion of the price. once i get a detailed quote from him, i'll let you know what the percentage of the total that portion is if your interested.

i just want to get this done and enjoy my new bike.

  • mach1jonny

Posted January 19, 2010 - 07:02 PM

#38

I had Josh Boykin of Boykin Custom Suspension in Modesto do my suspension. $700 included the springs front and rear, seals, fluid and labor, and push button bleeders, All parts are factory connection with the exception of the bleeders. The bike rides great, hads I known the bike would ride this good, I woud have done this a long time ago.

Boykin Custom Suspension Ph# 209-529-9757

Josh also set the sags and back all of his work, if you have any questions just give him a call.

  • mach1jonny

Posted January 19, 2010 - 07:03 PM

#39

I had Josh Boykin of Boykin Custom Suspension in Modesto do my suspension. $700 included the springs front and rear, seals, fluid and labor, and push button bleeders, All parts are factory connection with the exception of the bleeders. The bike rides great, had I known the bike would ride this good, I woud have done this a long time ago.

Boykin Custom Suspension Ph# 209-529-9757

Josh also set the sags and back all of his work, if you have any questions just give him a call.

  • drick

Posted January 19, 2010 - 09:18 PM

#40

I had Josh Boykin of Boykin Custom Suspension in Modesto do my suspension. $700 included the springs front and rear, seals, fluid and labor, and push button bleeders, All parts are factory connection with the exception of the bleeders. The bike rides great, had I known the bike would ride this good, I woud have done this a long time ago.

Boykin Custom Suspension Ph# 209-529-9757

Josh also set the sags and back all of his work, if you have any questions just give him a call.


thanks johnny, modesto is a wee bit far away for me.

i actually dropped off my junk at SPI this morning, so now i wait..




 
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