JGR Racing Suspension


29 replies to this topic
  • Wes Woodin

Posted December 19, 2009 - 12:14 AM

#1

JGR is now setting up suspensions! Has anyone used them and or know anybody who has? I was going to use old trusty Factory Connection, but JGR intrigues me. Just curious. I will be calling them on Monday. I do like the fact that they are local. Thanks

  • thumpinberry

Posted December 19, 2009 - 04:54 AM

#2

i emailed them yesterday and travis emailed back to me that if your bike is new they knock 200 dollars off their price.he saidonly ride your bike a couple off times to get the settings you like,because if they see any wear they will replace those parts.

  • Wes Woodin

Posted December 19, 2009 - 05:09 AM

#3

how much did they tell you it would be?

  • thumpinberry

Posted December 19, 2009 - 05:22 AM

#4

if you go on go gibbs racing motocross it has prices and what they will do.i think you can get the 200 dollars off on each foks and shocks.watch the video with reayton and grant and you will see there dyno working.im trying to deside to do enzo,gibbs or rget the racetech gold valves and do it myself.i put the gold vavles in my sons suzukis and he said it was almost as good as his yz250 with enzo a kit suspension.where in nc do you live?we are not far from ashville and we have a track you might could come over one weekend and ride

  • KJ790

Posted December 19, 2009 - 06:00 AM

#5

JGR's prices are outrageous. They charge more to replace the fork seals than most places charge for a full revalve. They charge more for a shock revalve than Pro-Action charged me to revalve 2 shocks and 2 sets of forks! I highly doubt that their suspension performs 4 times better than Pro-Action, Factory Connection, Enzo, etc.

  • ReedRulz

Posted December 19, 2009 - 06:24 AM

#6

JGR's prices are outrageous. They charge more to replace the fork seals than most places charge for a full revalve. They charge more for a shock revalve than Pro-Action charged me to revalve 2 shocks and 2 sets of forks! I highly doubt that their suspension performs 4 times better than Pro-Action, Factory Connection, Enzo, etc.


It may not be 4 times better but im sure its better. Stewarts front forks are like $25,000 I doubt there 150 times better but there better. Anytime your dealing with a race machine car or bike motor or suspension the price goes up faster than the performance gains.

  • almostinvincible119

Posted December 19, 2009 - 06:30 AM

#7

If money wasn't a problem, I bet you could talk the boys at JGR to set you up with a suspension tuning day. Put the computers on your bike and bring it back to the show and put it on the suspension dyno and see where improvements need to be made. That honestly would be money well spent, because we all know that R&D time is worth its weight in gold.

  • KJ790

Posted December 19, 2009 - 06:40 AM

#8

It may not be 4 times better but im sure its better. Stewarts front forks are like $25,000 I doubt there 150 times better but there better. Anytime your dealing with a race machine car or bike motor or suspension the price goes up faster than the performance gains.


Remember, most of the cost for a pro's suspension are in the time and manpower involved in testing and setting it up for that rider, not in hardparts. If you send your suspension off to JGR for them to revalve blindly without ever even seeing how you ride, where you ride, etc, then you are just going to get back a suspension that is blindly revalved, the same thing that Factory Connections or Enzo would send back to you. That is the reason why I like my local Pro Action guy. They are a franchise so they have a large database of specs (like all of the other companies), but since they are locally owned the owner knows the local tracks and many of the local racers, and adjusts the valving accordingly. He will even go to a track, watch you ride, and help dial it in for you.

Suspension is only as good as how well it suits the rider. James Stewart's suspension would feel like crap to 99% of us, does that mean that works suspension is crap? Of course not, it means that we don't ride like JS. You can have the most expensive and technologically advanced shock dyno in the world, but if you don't know what you are dynoing for it isn't very useful.

  • ProMed

Posted December 19, 2009 - 07:04 AM

#9

Very cool, they are just a few miles away from me.

  • DPW

Posted December 19, 2009 - 07:09 AM

#10

Suspension is only as good as how well it suits the rider. James Stewart's suspension would feel like crap to 99% of us, does that mean that works suspension is crap? Of course not, it means that we don't ride like JS. You can have the most expensive and technologically advanced shock dyno in the world, but if you don't know what you are dynoing for it isn't very useful.



agreed :moon:. I use local shops myself too. They know the tracks in the area and most will meet you at the track and help you out.

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  • Wes Woodin

Posted December 19, 2009 - 07:58 AM

#11

Remember, most of the cost for a pro's suspension are in the time and manpower involved in testing and setting it up for that rider, not in hardparts. If you send your suspension off to JGR for them to revalve blindly without ever even seeing how you ride, where you ride, etc, then you are just going to get back a suspension that is blindly revalved, the same thing that Factory Connections or Enzo would send back to you. That is the reason why I like my local Pro Action guy. They are a franchise so they have a large database of specs (like all of the other companies), but since they are locally owned the owner knows the local tracks and many of the local racers, and adjusts the valving accordingly. He will even go to a track, watch you ride, and help dial it in for you.

Suspension is only as good as how well it suits the rider. James Stewart's suspension would feel like crap to 99% of us, does that mean that works suspension is crap? Of course not, it means that we don't ride like JS. You can have the most expensive and technologically advanced shock dyno in the world, but if you don't know what you are dynoing for it isn't very useful.


so true

  • grayracer513

Posted December 19, 2009 - 08:30 AM

#12

There is no bigger bang for the buck in the suspension business than SMART Performance. His work is, IMO, the best you can get, his prices are reasonable, and he'll sell you everything you need to do the job yourself, if you feel up to it. You just can't get a serious top tier revalve for less, or a better one, for that matter.

  • harrperf

Posted December 19, 2009 - 08:54 AM

#13

I was saddenned the day JGR started selling product...

I honestly feel they will be tough to beat in coming years...and they have the best of the best working for them with unlimited resources.

Side note: wanna bet steward ends up there when his san manual thing is over?

  • ReedRulz

Posted December 19, 2009 - 09:04 AM

#14

Remember, most of the cost for a pro's suspension are in the time and manpower involved in testing and setting it up for that rider, not in hardparts. If you send your suspension off to JGR for them to revalve blindly without ever even seeing how you ride, where you ride, etc, then you are just going to get back a suspension that is blindly revalved, the same thing that Factory Connections or Enzo would send back to you. That is the reason why I like my local Pro Action guy. They are a franchise so they have a large database of specs (like all of the other companies), but since they are locally owned the owner knows the local tracks and many of the local racers, and adjusts the valving accordingly. He will even go to a track, watch you ride, and help dial it in for you.

Suspension is only as good as how well it suits the rider. James Stewart's suspension would feel like crap to 99% of us, does that mean that works suspension is crap? Of course not, it means that we don't ride like JS. You can have the most expensive and technologically advanced shock dyno in the world, but if you don't know what you are dynoing for it isn't very useful.


I agree with what your saying to a point but I still think the technology gap between JGR and Pro Action is probably a large amount and thats what your paying for.

  • KJ790

Posted December 19, 2009 - 09:54 AM

#15

I agree with what your saying to a point but I still think the technology gap between JGR and Pro Action is probably a large amount and thats what your paying for.


I would agree if JGR were actually using technology in their revalves. Unfortunately, all JGR is doing is changing the shim stacks, just like every other suspension company. If you've ever taken an engineering course in vibrations or dynamics of damped systems you would realize pretty quickly that to model a motorcross suspension on realistic conditions is near impossible. That leaves all of the valving decisions up to past experience in making adjustments to suspension and rider feedback in different situations. Companies like Factory Connection, Pro-Action, Enzo, etc. have been in this for many many years, and have a lot of feedback from many different riders of all different levels on all different terrain on all different bikes. How much feedback does JGR have for a novice rider weighing 220 lbs on a 2001 CR250 in Maine? They pretty much have their valving spec sheet that they got from another source, the same thing the other companies have minus the feedback from a similar rider.

  • ReedRulz

Posted December 19, 2009 - 10:09 AM

#16

I would agree if JGR were actually using technology in their revalves. Unfortunately, all JGR is doing is changing the shim stacks, just like every other suspension company. If you've ever taken an engineering course in vibrations or dynamics of damped systems you would realize pretty quickly that to model a motorcross suspension on realistic conditions is near impossible. That leaves all of the valving decisions up to past experience in making adjustments to suspension and rider feedback in different situations. Companies like Factory Connection, Pro-Action, Enzo, etc. have been in this for many many years, and have a lot of feedback from many different riders of all different levels on all different terrain on all different bikes. How much feedback does JGR have for a novice rider weighing 220 lbs on a 2001 CR250 in Maine? They pretty much have their valving spec sheet that they got from another source, the same thing the other companies have minus the feedback from a similar rider.


They have a state of the art dyno machine that they supposedly use on the suspension and even though the company is fairly new i'm sure they have hired some guys that have been doing this a while.

  • grayracer513

Posted December 19, 2009 - 10:33 AM

#17

Unfortunately, all JGR is doing is changing the shim stacks, just like every other suspension company.

Every other company is not doing that. Dave Johnson at SMART reconfigures the mid valve well beyond a simple re-stack. He also makes modifications to the base valve. All of it is based on a break with conventional philosophy as to how to manage damping, and I can tell you that it works. His work on the shock is more conventional, but no less impressive.

I agree with you, though, that there's very likely to be nothing new in what JGR is doing from a standpoint of technology.

  • KJ790

Posted December 19, 2009 - 11:13 AM

#18

They have a state of the art dyno machine that they supposedly use on the suspension and even though the company is fairly new i'm sure they have hired some guys that have been doing this a while.


As I said, you can have the most expensive and state of the art dyno in the world (like they do), but if you don't know what you are dynoing then there is no use for it. I can tell you right now that they are not mathematically modeling the suspensions. Here's how they use their dyno. They find a setting through actual track testing that their rider likes, then they take that suspension and test it on the dyno to see how it acts. Then they use that result to fine tune a suspension that acts consistent to those characteristics as it heats up and as time is put on it through a race. They don't have any dyno results for you or I, and I can guarantee you if they used Josh Grant's suspension results on their dyno to set up your suspension you would not be happy with it.

Every other company is not doing that. Dave Johnson at SMART reconfigures the mid valve well beyond a simple re-stack. He also makes modifications to the base valve. All of it is based on a break with conventional philosophy as to how to manage damping, and I can tell you that it works. His work on the shock is more conventional, but no less impressive.

I agree with you, though, that there's very likely to be nothing new in what JGR is doing from a standpoint of technology.


Yes, I agree, many companies make modifications to other parts in the suspension, but the point is that those changes were developed through trial and error testing with rider feedback, not through technological advancements, computers, or suspension dynos. I could have the most technologically advanced computer doing logarithms all day and a $10 billion suspension dyno, but without a large sampling of rider feedback and experienced knowledge of how changing certain aspects of a suspension change how that suspension acts to different riders on different bikes, I will never be able to set up a suspension as good as Dave J, or pro-action, or any other top suspension company.

Now I'm sure that JGR does have experienced suspension guys working for them, and certainly they have knowledge of how certain changes affect how the suspension acts to different riders, but I highly doubt that they have more knowledge of this than the other suspension companies. I bet the guys JGR has are just guys that used to work for other suspension companies doing the exact same job.

But I'm sure that there will be people that will drop $1700 to have JGR do a simple revalve on their suspension because they have the most expensive suspension dyno in the world.

Edited by KJ790, December 19, 2009 - 11:30 AM.


  • ReedRulz

Posted December 19, 2009 - 11:20 AM

#19

As I said, you can have the most expensive and state of the art dyno in the world (like they do), but if you don't know what you are dynoing then there is no use for it. I can tell you right now that they are not mathematically modeling the suspensions. Here's how they use their dyno. They find a setting through actual track testing that their rider likes, then they take that suspension and test it on the dyno to see how it acts. Then when they use that result to fine tune a suspension that acts consistent to those characteristics as it heats up and as time is put on it through a race. They don't have any dyno results for you or I, and I can guarantee you if they used Josh Grant's suspension results on their dyno to set up your suspension you would not be happy with it.



Yes, I agree, many companies make modifications to other parts in the suspension, but the point is that those changes were developed through trial and error testing with rider feedback, not through technological advancements, computers, or suspension dynos. I could have the most technologically advanced computer doing logarithms all day and a $10 billion suspension dyno, but without a large sampling of rider feedback and experienced knowledge of how changing certain aspects of a suspension change how that suspension acts to different riders on different bikes, I will never be able to set up a suspension as good as Dave J, or pro-action, or any other top suspension company.

Now I'm sure that JGR does have experienced suspension guys working for them, and certainly they have knowledge of how certain changes affect how the suspension acts to different riders, but I highly doubt that they have more knowledge of this than the other suspension companies. I bet the guys JGR has are just guys that used to work for other suspension companies doing the exact same job.

But I'm sure that there will be people that will drop $1700 to have JGR do a simple revalve on their suspension because they have the most expensive suspension dyno in the world.


I cant say I disagree with anything you said. You are probably right that the other companies suspension will work just as well. I wouldnt spend that kind of money myself that JGR charges.

  • ReedRulz

Posted December 19, 2009 - 11:22 AM

#20

Every other company is not doing that. Dave Johnson at SMART reconfigures the mid valve well beyond a simple re-stack. He also makes modifications to the base valve. All of it is based on a break with conventional philosophy as to how to manage damping, and I can tell you that it works. His work on the shock is more conventional, but no less impressive.

I agree with you, though, that there's very likely to be nothing new in what JGR is doing from a standpoint of technology.


I have a 2007 YZ450F about how much would I be paying to send Dave my forks and shock to do his magic?





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