transmission oil?


19 replies to this topic
  • KTM300XC-W09

Posted December 18, 2009 - 08:55 PM

#1

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with "Hondalube HP Trans oil 80/85w" The guy at the bike shop recommended it? But it's a lot heavier than what the manual recommends (10/50w)

Would there be any advantage or disadvantage to running this oil?

  • yamaha racing 230

Posted December 18, 2009 - 09:26 PM

#2

no advantge or disadvantage personally its a waste of money buyin exotic oils for just toil that lubes the trans and cluch, id run rotella 15w40 thats 12 bucks a gallon and works great i change it every 10 hrs or atf which provides a better cluch feel and drag i run this in the winter becuase it flows much better but this can be used year round

  • Mike in Fresno

Posted December 19, 2009 - 09:16 AM

#3

yep, I use Rotella T synth in my cars, truck, 4st and 2st if Im out of car synth trans fluid for the 2st

  • Gary jp4

Posted December 19, 2009 - 12:11 PM

#4

Motor oil and Drive Line oil (gear oil) have viscosity rated using different SAE standards so comparing weights is meaningless.

Gear oil and motor oil also use different temperatures to spec the oil (SAE J300 is used to define engine oils, while SAE J306 is used to define gear oil and chassis lubricants) so the best way to compare is probably with viscosity. And, although weight or viscosity doesn't explain all the properties that are important to running it in a gear box with a wet clutch maybe it comes closer. Some others important qualities would be foaming qualities, viscosity at other temperatures then the ones I am sharing or viscosity index, anti wear properties, compatibility with clutch material and functions, seal swelling qualities, etc. Some of it is not intuitive so your gut feel may be way off.

I have been running Rotella and thinking about trying ATF so I did some research. Best I can tell with an hour or so invested is:

The viscosity of most ATF is about 7.5 CTS @ 100° c

Motor Oil reaches 7.5 CTS @ 100° c at between SAE 15 and 20.

Gear oil gets to 7.5 CTS @ 100° c at between about SAE 80 to 85W


30W motor oil has a CTS of about 12 CTS @ 100° c

The equivalent Gear Oil appears to be be above 85W and less then 90W

Summary:

Than means 30# engine oil is a about the same as 80/85W gear oil and 40# motor oil (including 10W40) is even thicker. ATF weighs in about the same as SAE 15 or 20W motor oil.

I have seen some home grown test were Rotella doesn't have very good anti-foaming qualities. Don't know if that is important here.

ATF has some of the extrema pressure qualities of gear oil, good anti-foaming attributes, and works well with friction devices like a clutch.

Gary

  • dirtbeater

Posted December 19, 2009 - 04:36 PM

#5

I say find something cheap and wet. Keep trying things until you have a "perfect" clutch feel. Keep what ever you choose and change it once and awhile. These bikes are putting 30-40 hp through a tranny that is way over built and actually alot of clutch surface. Many have run w/o fluid and not had permanate dammage. I put alot of dirt, water, soap, and ran empty with no permanate dammage. Not that I recomend doing these things, just pointing out dirt bike trannys/clutchs are tough as nails. My bro's 360 ate 2 pv screws with no real damage. For me its cheap atf.

  • gmoss357

Posted December 19, 2009 - 05:04 PM

#6

Motor oil and Drive Line oil (gear oil) have viscosity rated using different SAE standards so comparing weights is meaningless.

Gear oil and motor oil also use different temperatures to spec the oil (SAE J300 is used to define engine oils, while SAE J306 is used to define gear oil and chassis lubricants) so the best way to compare is probably with viscosity. And, although weight or viscosity doesn't explain all the properties that are important to running it in a gear box with a wet clutch maybe it comes closer. Some others important qualities would be foaming qualities, viscosity at other temperatures then the ones I am sharing or viscosity index, anti wear properties, compatibility with clutch material and functions, seal swelling qualities, etc. Some of it is not intuitive so your gut feel may be way off.

I have been running Rotella and thinking about trying ATF so I did some research. Best I can tell with an hour or so invested is:

The viscosity of most ATF is about 7.5 CTS @ 100° c

Motor Oil reaches 7.5 CTS @ 100° c at between SAE 15 and 20.

Gear oil gets to 7.5 CTS @ 100° c at between about SAE 80 to 85W


30W motor oil has a CTS of about 12 CTS @ 100° c

The equivalent Gear Oil appears to be be above 85W and less then 90W

Summary:

Than means 30# engine oil is a about the same as 80/85W gear oil and 40# motor oil (including 10W40) is even thicker. ATF weighs in about the same as SAE 15 or 20W motor oil.

I have seen some home grown test were Rotella doesn't have very good anti-foaming qualities. Don't know if that is important here.

ATF has some of the extrema pressure qualities of gear oil, good anti-foaming attributes, and works well with friction devices like a clutch.

Gary



good info. The thing I have noticed more than anything with a thicker oil is clutch engagement till warmed up good. Makes the clutch action much stickier and harder to start in gear.

ATF has improved my clutch and tranny performance, hot or cold.

  • dirtbeater

Posted December 19, 2009 - 10:06 PM

#7

Yeeessssssssssss!!!!!! Can we make this another atf in the tranny debate :moon:

  • Pedroski

Posted December 20, 2009 - 04:43 AM

#8

I used Putoline gear oil for ages. Using that, the transmission was nicely oiled and changed gear nicely. Then I started using some Motul 4 stroke oil I had left over. Strangely enough, that oiled the transmission as well and I could change gear nicely. Now I'm using some Silkolene Pro S car oil, and again it's oiling the transmission and enabling me to use gear. I'm also using some Comma and some Millers diesel engine oils......and strangely enough, they're also working well. No problems with clutch slippage or anything with any of them.

  • Mike in Fresno

Posted December 20, 2009 - 07:31 AM

#9

as long as there are no friction modifiers it will all work for sure.

In the 70s we used motor oil for air cleaners and if you were out of 2st oil we used it in the pre-mix. It all works, some MAY work better.

  • Pedroski

Posted December 20, 2009 - 08:42 AM

#10

as long as there are no friction modifiers it will all work for sure.

In the 70s we used motor oil for air cleaners and if you were out of 2st oil we used it in the pre-mix. It all works, some MAY work better.


Best thing to do is to stay away from oils where it says "energy conserving" in the label on the back. Usually this is only found on the lighter oils (5w30, 10w30 etc)

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  • 40oz

Posted December 20, 2009 - 12:18 PM

#11

interesting, I normally run 75W oil in my tranny.

  • Mephistopheles

Posted December 21, 2009 - 04:49 AM

#12

Have been using any spare synth/semi-synth 4t oil I've had laying around last couple of changes. 10W40, 15W50, 20W50. I'll get a system sorted soon.

  • thumpinyami59

Posted December 24, 2009 - 08:45 AM

#13

I have run the honda HP 80/85 for a while, it is visibly about as thick as ATF, its NOTHING like a regular 80/90 gear lube! I am going to switch over to ATF soon, The honda stuff is not that expensive but more than ATF for sure. I think it is alot like the 4-stroke oil debate for Yamaha, buy what you can afford to change often enough. Good Luck

  • visbits

Posted December 24, 2009 - 12:40 PM

#14

Can't go wrong with rotella T like everyone has said. I've been running it for a while now and it seems to be doing its job!

  • swedishfishmx

Posted December 24, 2009 - 01:35 PM

#15

I use the honda 80/85 and have never had an issue with my ktm's. I may switch to walmart oil but for now I enjoy using the Honda products, plus their is a Honda shop 1/2 mile from my house.

  • mcgradybrandt

Posted December 26, 2009 - 12:24 PM

#16

I love the feel of the hp trans 80/85 in my ktm 300 with a rekluse pro. It seems to last longer than the recommended shell rotella 15/40. That rotella tends to make my clutch squeal at times and gets slippy after a couple of hours of use.

A friend of mine also swears by the motul 5100 semi-synthetic. I might try the motul which I used to run in my "crotch rockets" but for now the honda hp trans is the best I've found. Besides, it's less that 8 bucks a litre here in Canada. It's probably even cheaper for a quart in the US. It's gotta be good stuff - it's designed specifically for 2-stroke dirt bike transmissions

  • CHILLY

Posted December 26, 2009 - 03:25 PM

#17

I love oil discussions. I think it is great that people can genuinely feel good about the oil they use, almost as if it makes the world a better place. Alas I can't quite come up with the same enthusiasm. Most of the bikes I have owned in the last 10 years never saw anything but what ever was cheeeepest at wallyworld, usually Cheveron 10-30. In all that time I never had a failure and maybe changed clutches on on two bikes, each with over a years worth of racing and abuse. I do confess to using Rotella in the thumpers, if its good enough for factory Ktm, I guess I can cough up a buck or so extra for it.

What I do practice is frequent changes to keep it all clean.

  • fender bender 59

Posted December 26, 2009 - 05:37 PM

#18

I've been useing ATF for the last ten years in all of our 2 strokes and have had good luck. Of course our (NEW) 4 stroke lost the rod bearing useing Rotella with 20 hours. Not that belive the oil had anything to do with it...

  • sbest

Posted December 30, 2009 - 06:54 AM

#19

A comment was made about the KTM being over clutched and I believe that to be true.
Likely anything wet would work for most of our riding. The real test comes from extreme use or marginal designs. I have had slippage on many bikes (XL500, DT200, etc) from using automotive oils and/or additives before I knew better or when I bought the bike from a previous owner who used the wrong oil. In most cases I was able to flush the clutch clean with several changes of ATF or bike oil to get it working again. I use Rotella 15w40 in my street bikes without problem and would use it in the gearbox but usually throw the extra couple of dollars for proper bike oil. In winter I am using ATF. No plate sticking.

  • ktm300

Posted December 30, 2009 - 09:10 AM

#20

I use Rotella synth in everything, some oils will make your bike shift seamless and smooth and others will make your bike notchy and hard to shift.




 
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