msiddalingaiah said:

I don't know flow rate info yet but I do know it is a high impedance injector (11-13 ohms).

I'd bet money that the injector is a 24lb/hr. Many of the Suzukis appear to use injectors of a Bosch design and have kept the color coding that Bosch has used for the last 30+ years. There are some deviations, but a dirty orange color like the SV650s use denotes 19 lb/hr and a blue like yours is 24lb/hr.

HeadTrauma said:

Yes this a Bosch injector I used the orange one for my dr 350 which I errantly recalled came from a vstrom but after reading you post I know it came from a sv650.  I am not very knowledgeable on the Suzuki line up but I think the vstrom and the sv650 have the same engine?

On an aside as far as I know bosch does use color to identify the flow rate of their injectors.  

Sam

wildwestsydney said:

Thanks for the vote of confidence Sam. After spending some time browsing around the Megatune software the past couple of days I've come to the conclusion that the software author (Eric Fahlgren) would have a hard time communicating with mere mortals like myself. The more I read, and see the tools provided for tuning, the faster I want to get past the trivial install crapola and get down to business. .... but I guess I better make sure to get the install right so I don't have to be bothered by the bike bursting into flames... that would so ruin my concentration on a good X-Tau Accel Table. So do you think I can take how long it takes my beer to evaporate off the inside of my mug after I've tipped it for a sip (read gulp) and then factor in the temp rise from my grubby mits on the wall of the mug causing higher evaporation rates at various stages and plug that into the table for a starting point?   

This is one of the Toyota Camry, Celica, forerunner, etc pumps off ebay. $10.91 with plug-in connector. I've read that using an immersion fuel pump like this externally can result in heat failure issues. Taking a lead from wildwestsydney I started this aluminum finned housing yesterday. I have it finned up to the point where I was considering using a clamp/mount near the pump end but have since changed my mind. I will now continue the fins all the way to the end. The lower solid section is just the extra length of material I needed to chuck it up securely in a lathe. It will be parted off after all the machining work is completed. The interior of the housing has two viton o-rings to prevent fuel leakage near the head. One set screw placed near the pump end, outside of the o-rings, will hold the pump in the housing. At about the 1/3 mark (about the first fin down) the interior of the housing opens up so the fuel can surround the pump housing. I'm hoping this will help with cooling. After parting off the chuck end a hole already bored for a fuel fitting will be threaded for the fuel supply fitting. The pump will mount in front and slightly inboard of the left engine cradle down tube so it can get some air flow. I will fabricate a central clamp that rubber mounts to the threaded bracket already there for the CA fuel evaporation control system valve. The pump will be mounted upside down from how you are viewing it so a direct line from the fuel petcock will lead directly to the pump intake. This will also help the cavity around the pump pick-up to bleed off any trapped air. The fuel output line will travel down a bit and over to an adjustable fuel pressure regulator mounted below the air boot somewhere (to be determined). From there the fuel bleed/return line will go up to the evap fitting on the bottom of my CA tank and the pressure line will connect to the the fuel rail. If this actually works (and proves reliable) I'll probably have the housing anodized to keep it from turning crappy looking.

Edited by mx_rob, 18 December 2009 - 09:44 AM.

I think I have the orange injector HeadTrauma and wildwestsidney are talking about. Someone on the msefi site claimed the flow rate for the Yamaha R6 was 240 cc/min, but my measurements show 200 cc/min which is 19 lb/hr. 24 lb/hr should be just about right for the 650. It's good to know. At some point I might consider a big bore kit for my 350 and I might need more fuel.

mx_rob, it looks like you got same pump I did, I'm curious to see how well it works. The housing you made looks really nice. Mine will probably be a little more low tech, but it will work.

I've got a decent solution for tach signal from the pickup coil, I'll post the details later.

Does the R6 probably uses an EV14 injector? Most of the ones I have seen are black regardless of flow rate.

Here is the orange SV650 injector I have:


I didn't use it because I modified the rail bracket and a Ford/Bosch EV1 35lb to fit in its place.

HeadTrauma said:

The R6 injectors look just like the ones from the SV650, but the number printed on the side is 25004ZS. The slight difference might be a date code or lot number. Is that an EV14, EV1, or something else? I found some Bosch models that looked similar, but the colors were not uniformly orange.

I finished the machining on my fuel pump housing today. The unit measures just under 5" (122mm) long by just under 2" (50mm) diameter with the fuel pump installed. I went ahead and machined fins the entire length to increase surface area.


The suction end view (or top in it's mounted position) threaded for the fuel inlet fitting.


Here it is mocked up in the approximate position it will occupy on my bike once mounted. Once that monster FCR-MX is gone there will be even more room to play around with.  I'm planning on fabricating a single (strong) stainless steel band keyed to one cooling fin groove. It will be rubber mounted where it attaches to the unused CA evap valve mount (directly behind the housing in the picture).

Very nice looking.  Not that I have to mention it to you but if i understand your set screw fastening method correctly I would be cautious about how much you tighten the set screw, maybe use a plastic tip set screw.

Sam

wildwestsydney said:

Yes, I did think about that.... but don't even consider not mentioning anything you see as a concern. I sunk like a lead balloon every time I tried walking on water. I gave that futile past time up a long time ago.   It really will not require a lot of force to hold it in place. I have the two viton o-rings under a fair bit of compression and the pump fits with an extremely close fit on the bore. I guess two small set screws would be better so I can get a small amount force from 90 degree directions. I plan on dimple drilling the fuel pump just a bit where the set screw contacts it...... hopefully not all the way through the metal. That will provide a strong retention index without having to crank the screws down until they snap off and then back them off a quarter turn. The worse case experimental oops would be another $10.91 plus shipping for a new pump.... oh, and another imperial stout to help me come up with another scheme.  

mx_rob said:

Be careful dimple drilling the pump. I suspect the wall thickness to be in the .030" range maybe .062" tops.  I think the compression of the orings would hold it all together but you definately want some mechanical means of holding it together.  I agree that you do not need a ton of torque on the set screw to hold the pump in the housing, rethinking maybe a cone point set screw with light torque and lock tight on the threads.  

Sam

msiddalingaiah said:

1.) No kidding? I'm surprised becauase the CBR, GSXR, and Ninja injectors appear to be EV14s, at least the ones I've seen. I have an '01 CBR600 F4i engine in the garage an it definitely has EV14s much like the Honda S2000.

2.) I wish I knew. It appears to be specific to bikes.

Something that might also work for retaining the finned fuel pump cover is to slot it abut halfway down and use a clamp to pinch it onto the pump...

HeadTrauma said:

That's my plan.

HeadTrauma said:

I considered that but I did not like the idea of deforming the o-ring seal area near the pump insertion end.... I guess it wouldn't be that big of a deal since I fit the bore so closely... well, I'll see how the double 90 degree set screws in small dimples hold up. I'm not affraid of a do-over if necesaary. I also have a back-up plan if this blows up in my face....

This is the external fuel pump off a LT-R450 sitting next to my rigging. I scored it at a very reasonable rate on ebay. If all else fails I can just use this instead. I'd rather be successful with my quazi-rendition..... (besides mine looks cooler) but I have no intention of wasting a bunch of time and frustration with fuel pump failures. There are more important pastures to mow ahead for me.

wildwestsydney said:

I'd guess .030" to be optimistic.... more like .020 or .025. Just a tiny dimple will go a long way... I hope.

Looking at the housing you machined, what about a 1/4" thick cap ring (with the center open) for the other end that you could then drill through and secure with 2 or 3 screws to the aluminum housing?

Edited by NY T100, 19 December 2009 - 06:25 AM.

The stock LT-A700 intake manifold showed up this evening in a huge FedEx box. There must have been a whole Sunday edition New York Times crammed in that box.... It was like being on an easter egg hunt.

So, here's the deal...although the bolt pattern seems to match the DR650's head (looks to be 75mm bolt centers) the port arrangement and contour for the fuel injector do not match the head. The DR650's manifold bolt pattern is not level so the TB would have to be installed at an angle to match the ob-round manifold for the injector pattern clearance. That would make the intake port a real rigged up mess.   Since the TB and stock ATV manifold only measure 112mm long total length I have room to make an adapter plate to level the TB and manifold. This will also provide a transition length between the round DR port and the obround ATV manifold. Should I decide to go with the 725cc kit and new cam grind Procycle is offering I'll match the adapter and intake port on the cylinder head to the TB manifold at that time.

I thought that pump looked familiar!!! You know me and my LTR FETISH!!! Although I like your machined design ( It looks  awesome) I would still go with the LTR pump, It would be so cool to stick with OEM parts. Also they sell a carbon fiber fuel pump cover if the looks of it concerns you.  
Here is some more info I found on this site. I am not trying to  take any credit Just found it and will post a link it was in another section.

http://www.mini-ms.com/

NY T100 said:

That's a good thought and one I had considered although slightly askew as I thought of mounting the pump off that end as well. Now that I like the centered weight grab option better I never thought of just machining a stepped down capture ring with it's own set screws to keep the pump from going anywhere. That suggestion will go into my bag of tricks if I can't pull a rabbit out of my hat on the first pass. Thanks for the extra brain cells.