I am done getting all of the Fuel Injection stuff mounted to my KLR650. Even made my own throttle cable.

I am just attempting to get the ignition sense setup to fire of the injector. I am doing FI only @ this time with no timing control.

Hopefully I will be able to get her fired up sometime in the next few weeks.


Marty

great08, on 17 January 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Good luck with your project Marty! The tach signal can be a challenge... I believe your KLR may have the same VRS lug configuration on the rotor as the DR650... one long pre-charge lug (I'm making an assumption that is what the lug that falls before the timing lug is doing) and then the short lug that actually fires the ignition. If I'm correct in the KLR's lug configuration you will have to see if your FI controller/ECU will be able to handle/make sense of that signal.

Looking forward to further reports....
mxrob

mxrob, on 19 January 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

I looked into that a while ago and the KLR ended up having only one single short lug and runs in wasted spark. I never could get the actual spark sense program to work though so I don't know how clean my signal is. I am sensing rpms from cranking-on up though. So I think it is good.

I am currently able to keep her running @ higher rpms but am having surging problems @ around idle region. I am talking to others and they are saying to slip a carb needle into the MAP rubber hose to dampen the pulses. What do you recommend Rob?

Thankyou,

Marty

Hmmm, carb needle huh? That's an interesting dampening idea. There are a few techniques you can use that I'm aware of.... controlling the length of the hose going to the MAP sensor (longer hose more dampening), controlling the durometer of the hose (softer tubing dampens signal pulses), an orifice at the nipple on the TB or adding a inline fuel filter to the MAP sensing line. The problem with any dampening you do on the MAP signal is a sluggish MAP signal response when it is really needed. Is your FI controller capable of a mixed Alpha-N/SD? That would be very beneficial on a big bore thumper.

mxrob, on 21 January 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

I just downloaded the latest code version for the microsquirt. It has a Speed Density setting and two different Alpha-N/Speed Density settings. I still have to read into them to see what the differences are.

Thankyou for your tips!

Marty

The best set up for a big thumper would be Alpha-N for idle then switch to SD after the R's get up a bit smoothing out the MAP signal then switching back to alpha-N when the MAP signal becomes unresponsive in the higher throttle openings and RPM.

mxrob, on 21 January 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

OK. I will have to read into that some then and see if it is possible in any way.

Havn't had time to mess with the bike much in the last few days but did get the MAP smoothed out perfectly by adding the pilot jet from my stock KLR carb to the rubber tube that heads towards the MAP sensor. Map readings are smooth as silk just before idle now. I don't know if it will cause the MAP readings to change to slowly yet or not. I'll let you guys know.

Marty

Good deal. Hopefully you can take care of the likely response issues with acceleration enrichment. Might still have some issues with an over-rich decel until the MAP signal catches up.

I too am following in the Master's foot steps and have just gotten my DR-650 running on fuel only, Alpha-N. Still have a lot of tuning to do but it is usable now. I have the latest MicroSquirt V3 but had all kinds of issues getting the 3.77 B&G firmware to work for my simple application. I could see good tach and sensor signals but AFR would not read and it never saw cranking mode. I tried every possible setup combination I could think of but no cranking mode. I went to the MSextra code and most of my problems went away because MSextra has a fuel only mode setup option.I don't remember the 3.77 B&G code that well but the extra has a lag function that lets you filter the MAP in SW. You can change the filtering and lag quickly in real time and watch the results on TunerStudio. I am not using MAP at the moment (pure Alpha-N) but I do want to explore it more later.
I will start a new post as soon as I get a few minutes free.
A big thanks to Rob for all his pioneering work and for taking the time to post it all here!

jaeger22, on 26 January 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

I am using one of the older microquirts but updated the code to Version 3.780. I got the O2 to read and could get the processor to read cranking(autochoke). For some reason my bike was surging/pulsing while at idle. I have been having a hard time getting my mind wrapped around the tuning. I just set my bike back to stock(took about an hour and a half). I will get back on the project after I move across country in a few months... and get settled in.

I did set the fuel map all to 13:1AFR and that smoothed the surging a lot. I will fine tune that map later. I may cut off the X-tau and accel/deccel enrichments and see if that was throwing everything off since I don't know what I am doing there.

Also, I may end up wanting to try the older code @ some point to see what it is like. Can you tell me where to get that older code? I can only find the newer code.

On a plus side... I now have alllll of my sensors wired in with the exception of the TPS since I have the carb on. lol So I am going to make a long long warmup/running datalog of what the carb does. I even connected the MAP sensor to the carb! I am going to try to see if that will simplify the tuning process later.

Marty

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Not sure how 3.78 works but in the MSExtra code setup, there is a setting under EGO control (AFR feed back) for minimum RPM for EGO to be active. I set mine at 3000 RPM to keep it well above idle. When I had it set lower I was getting surging at idle. Now it is much smoother. About like the carb.

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Yes that is a very good idea and from what I have read it is what the experts recommend. Turn off all the enrichment and the AFR feed back until you get the fuel map (VE) very close. Otherwise they will make reading the log very confusing.

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I really do not. I am not sure I see why you would every want to go back to an older version unless they broke something in the latest. But you may very well want to go to the MXExtra code. It is free and has a lot of improved features. Like you can go from a 16X16 map to a 31X16 map (like Rob did). Also I found it very much easier to set up for fuel only and alpha-N. You can read about it, find the manuals, and download it here:
http://www.msextra.c.../index.html#ms1

Well Marty, it is good to see I am not completely alone out here in the DR650 EFI wilderness trying to follow Rob's fading foot prints. I am having a ball with it in spite of all the frustrations and learning a ton of new stuff every day. So Stay in touch!

great08, on 24 January 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

That is a neat trick. I tried a number of schemes to smooth out MAP. I was able to get a smooth idle and decent response, but as Rob mentioned, WOT was a problem. At idle, MAP was never below about 65 kPa, so there wasn't much head room. Even a modest throttle opening would saturate MAP at 100 kPa. When the engine needed more fuel, there was nothing to tell MS to deliver it. The end result was a lean mixture at higher throttle openings.

What is your MAP reading at idle?

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That sounded exactly right to me but I wasn't sure how to get that set up. I finally figured it out by using two tables in blended mode where the tables are multiplied together. I set the first table up as Alpha-N and the second one up as Speed Density. The top rows of the SD map from 90% load up are all 100 so it is just 100% of what is in the AN map or pure AN. Same for the idle area of the map . For the area in between, I set each column of the AN table to the same value and equal to the 90% load for that RPM. This made the tuning a bit tricky and the blending around idle was a PIA but I pretty much have it al sorted now. I put over 100 miles on it yesterday.
But I continue to have idle issues. I seems that no mater what I do, I have to set idle high and rich to have it stable. Like RPM at around 1700 and AFR at around 12.5 or so. It is not that it will not idle lower, but it is erratic, and will often die when I come to a stop. It may work fine 10 stops in a row and die the next time. Not cool in traffic! Looking at the logs, I can’t really see any reason why it dies. Also at very slow speed and small throttle openings, it will sometimes surge a little even though I have it set rich in that area, around 13.1 or so. Anything above 1/8 throttle and it is sweet. AFR is always right on and response is outstanding.
I am thinking this looks like the TB is just a little too big. That would explain the idle/slow speed issues but on the other hand, the TB came off of a 450! This TB is 42 MM as compaired to the stock carb's 40. I know that we should be able to run a slightly larger TB than carb but there is a limit I assume.
[size=3]Any thoughts?[/size]

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I know this was directed at great08 but FYI, I was able to get a really nice MAP signal just using the filter in MSextra. I set to do 4 samples per event and "MAP sample angle" to 60 degrees. The MAP averaging lag factor is set to 50%. No real logic to it I just played around with the values while watching the Tunner Studio display until I got the best looking signal with minium lag values. At idle I get right at 31 kPa, but on decel to idle it will drop into the mid 20's.
John

How small are your idle numbers in the fuel table? If they are too small you will have a hard time controlling idle AFR since a one number change will represent a large jump. You may have to scale your fuel map. The DR650 does not like to idle in the 14's at all. Very unstable.... but, if you make it too rich it will give you an off-idle stumble because the excess fuel in the intake tract is picked up once velocity increases. Mine seems to like a 13.5 to 13.8 idle AFR.

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I have the idle VE value at 15 and my Required Fuel is set down to 11.9 (from the 17.3 MS calculator came up with). I lowered it to get the idle numbers larger but they are still a little on the small size. Each integer step is about 7% change in PW. What are you using now? PW? I am in the range of 2.7 to 2.9 MS at idle. What idle speed are you at now? Does it idle consistantly? I rode this morning with the idle set up to around 1700 and also lowered the EGO min RPM so that would correct during idle. I set the AFR table value to 13.2 in the idle range. That seems to work great. No stalls and it feels perefict. Just a high idle speed and it seems to change everytime I stop. It ranges from 1560 to 1800. Just took a long ride with the data logger running so will see if I can find anything that could be causing the RPM to change from stop to stop.Othter than this idle issue it is running great.

mxrob, on 20 February 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

The DR350 won't idle well in the 14's either. I still have a bit of an off-idle stumble so I thought I just needed more fuel off-idle. Right now I'm running in the mid to high 12's at idle. Maybe that's too rich and the root cause of the stumble?

The idle numbers in my VE table are in the mid twenties. I had to go way leaner on the required fuel to get my lower table numbers up where I wanted them..... you are safe going up to near 200 for WFO. I think my heaviest number is 137 in the highest load part of the table. I'd like to see those idle numbers around 30 actually. My bike idles right down to 1200 no problem.... I have it set at 1400.. it varies a bit but not too far up. I use some cold start ignition advance to keep the engine running since I don't have a IAC circuit.

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Thanks Rob, that is very valuable information to me. I think we have very close setups (JE Piston, open air box, and GSXR pipe) except I have the stock cam and of course no spark control. I will try dropping the Required Fuel a bunch. It is more complicated now that I am running the blended maps but I think I can figure it out. Are you running blended or still using extended table Alpha-N? Also I will have to rescale the starting pulse as it is a % of RF but it should be a straight forward scaling change. I just went for a ride at lunch and except for the fast idle, it is really running sweet.
John

jaeger22, on 21 February 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Right now I'm still just running the extended table Alpha-N on my 99. Haven't messed with it much since I've been playing around with the wife's 05 that I've put the Ecotrons FI kit on. Still dinking with that.... too darn cold in my garage to mess with it right now and I have some more pressing family issue to attend to. I'll get back to it when it warms up a bit. :-)