Nanny-state question: how many of us fill our bike gas tanks while said bikes are on trailer? How many of us run with scissors?

Standard gas station warning is to not fill "containers" while they are on a trailer: rather, we are advised to put container on ground to fill. Otherwise, "dreaded static electricity might set off wondrous fireworks, placing our healthy future gravely in doubt...."

Some bikes have plastic tank, some have metal---any difference in trailer-mounted filling here? You can carry static charge to a metal tank---but does the plastic tank involve any more portential to generate even more static?

I know, JUST FILL THE TANKS AND DON'T THINK ABOUT IT! On the other hand, all it takes is one little spark....

Any TTer words of wisdom on this?

I generally don't fill my fuel jugs in the trailer or truck, but never gave a second thought to filling a loaded bike for some reason. I can't see what would be much different than stuffing the nozzle into the truck's filler neck.

The truck's filler neck - at least all the ones I've seen, are metal, screwed onto the frame. The danger of filling station fires is from static electricity, although rare, it does happen.
It's darn near impossible to start a filling station fire with a lit cigarette and as far as I know, not possible with functional electronic devices, like cell phones. These are all on the sign, at least they are where I live.

Where it all gets tricky is the operator somehow builds a static charge, usually from entering the vehicle, without touching any metal surface to discharge it, then grabs the nozzle which discharges the static through the nozzle and ignites the gasoline vapor.
The danger with the portable containers is a plastic tank on a truck bed liner, building the same static charge which is then discharged from the tank to the nozzle, starting a fire.

It's highly unlikely that you'll start a fire. However, if you do start a fire, you're going to damage your vehicle, which won't be cheap, likely to damage the pump, also not cheap. And there's a good chance you will be injured - very expensive.
Which is why the stations put up the signs as recommended by the fire marshal. It's unlikely, but it has happened. When it does happen, it costs a lot of money. Warning signs - to reduce lawsuits (also expensive, even if the station wins), these signs are cheap.

That's why we have the signs.

I fill portable plastic cans strapped to the metal trailer and loaded bikes. If the plastic cans are in a truck bed or carpet, I take them out and put them on the ground. These are the most at-risk fill-ups. Keep one hand on the can/truck, one on the nozzle and the nozzle in contact with the container, you'll be fine. Most likely. Don't sue me. I have nothing as it is, so you'll get nothing for a lawsuit.

I've worked in gas stations for a number of years, never had a pump fire. Did have a carburetor fire though. The guy pulled up to the pump, opened his hood - fire! Put it out. I told him he should get it fixed before he leaves. Told me that he's not gonna worry about it. Filled up and drove off. Scary. Had someone drive off with the nozzle still in the tank. The hoses are built to fail at a given point and stop the gas flow. Not really scary, more irritating.

That's why we have signs. Stupid people. Cue Bill Engvall.

Found this a few minutes ago, with video, guy gets in/out of car while refueling, starts fire. Also on cell phone, but I really, really think that's coincidence:
http://www.wkyt.com/...s/78719497.html

Smacaroni said:

These quotes here above are probably the most key factors, no? It's hard to break a wrong habit, but way better to force yourself to break it and live to ride on....

Thanks also for your object lesson video documentation, Smacaroni.

No problem. Something else came to mind. Refueling fires are most common in the winter, when air is dry. Also, old people are the least likely to start them. The theory is old people who re-enter a vehicle almost always pull themselves out of the car with their hands on the frame which discharges static electricity. Non-elderly people simply stand up, keeping the charge. I've noticed perhaps in the last five years or so, the signs also state that if you must re-enter the vehicle, touch a metal piece of the car away from the nozzle to discharge the static.

I misspoke above. If the plastic can is on a plastic bed liner, take it out of the bed.

Smacaroni said:

And I was thinking it was because old people are more grounded than yung'uns... :smirk:

That might be the case too.

BSAVictor said:

There is no more risk to filling a bike or can that is resting upon the vehicle or trailer than there is in filling any vehicle's fuel tank....irregardless of what material the container is made of.

One thing that everyone missed......how many of your "ground" your vehicle before inserting the fuel nozzle? Get out and attach that grounding cable?

The problem isn't grounding the vehicle to earth, the problem is the open circuit between the user and the tank, once the circuit closes (or nearly closes like a spark plug), the static is discharged, resulting in a spark (i.e. heat the only component of the "fire triangle" missing) which causes the fire.
Typically, you're holding the nozzle which is metal, this is in the tank opening - on a gas pump pretty decent electrical connection because of the filler neck's small diameter to prevent people from putting diesel in their gas tank - so there's no open circuit.
In the case of the user in/out of the vehicle, the human body is acting like a static capacitor, once you connect the two ends (vehicle to user), you're discharging the capacitor.

I have never thought twice about filling my bike when on trailer, but definitely do not fill plastic cans in truck's bed (on liner). The can sliding around on bed can build up a good charge.

Last time I looked, the signs in Colorado said no cell phone usage while fueling. And I believe they speak to discharging static if re-enter vehicle.

I've seen a number of people talking on phones while fueling. Personally, I don't. I'm not sure when the most potential problem with a cell phone might be (mine has never sparked that I'm aware of), but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

There have not been any reports of cell phones starting gasoline refueling fires.
Snopes has a good article on how the myth likely got started, although at least two cell phone manufacturers recommend hanging up before filling gasoline, because there is a slight risk it could start a fire, the slight risk being about as good as winning the lottery or being struck by lightning type of "slight".
http://www.snopes.co...ds/gasvapor.asp

This fire credited to cell phones was later determined not to be caused by a cell phone, but static: http://www.cbsnews.c...ain617547.shtml
The one I posted earlier the driver not only chatting on the phone, in/out of the car (static), also had the engine running. Another unlikely cause of the fire, if the vehicle were to backfire (unlikely, but possible) and there's actually flame through the exhaust. Gasoline vapor is heavier than air and will collect around the vehicle's undercarriage, where the exhaust is typically routed. Unlikely, but possible.
Cell phones? Hasn't happened.

Smacaroni said:

I see what you're saying, but grounding the container/vehicle prior to fueling discharges this static electricity.

Whether this grounding is done by an actual mechanical device actually intended for such purpose, or by just sheer luck.....

You never shocked one of your friends w/ static in school did you? You know, those hard, uncomfortable plastic chairs, you slide your butt around on it, or drag your feet on the carpet? You're both on the ground (at least with concrete floors) and he still got shocked.

Smacaroni said:

Well, you're "kinda" grounded.....you have insulators all around you-clothing, shoes, carpet, plastic chairs, etc.

That's the problem with static electricity....it's the "kinda grounded" that is the danger.

When using a fuel bowser to fill a vehicle, the military's prescribed procedure is to attach a grounding strap from the bowser to the vehicle to be filled before filling.

And most of the time, that's diesel, right? (yes, vehicles are multi-fuel, but I'm pretty sure they prefer diesel)
That has a flash point of 125 degrees? Like kerosene, under "normal" temperatures and atmospheric pressure, you need a flame to burn it. Oh well, better safe than sorry in that respect I guess, the last thing you need in a remote camp in some desert is a 5,000 gallon diesel tanker on fire.
Sometime I'm gonna have to try static shocking someone on dirt with bare feet.

Smacaroni said:

JP-8 is their poison of choice for logistics purposes (everything can be fueled from the same fuel truck that way) and it's extreme resistance to gelling.

Flash point is about 100F.