Enclosed 5x8 or 5x10 with Matrix?


18 replies to this topic
  • plb

Posted December 04, 2009 - 07:15 AM

#1

Hi,

I have a 2005 manual Toyota Matrix (regular model, not XR or AWD). I have a 5x8 trailer and tow every weekend 1 bike and sometimes 2 bikes.

Weight is:
350 lbs for the trailer
500lbs for the 2 bikes and mud on it
850lbs with no problem.

The Toyota Matrix can tow 1500lbs.

I want an enclosed trailer.

I went to a dealer and checkek for the SnoPro Cargopro Stealth 2.0 2010.

The weight for 5x8 with V-Nose and all alumimum construction is 570lbs with 13 inches wheels.
The weight for 5x10 with V-Nose and all alumimum construction is 695lbs with 15 inches wheels.

The 5x8 will just be useful to tow my bike in security (you lock the door and no one can see or touch your bike) and put my riding gear on it (no more odour in the car). But, I know it will be just a trailer with no space to walk (the indoor lenght is the lenght of the bike) or put a lot of shelves, tools boxes, cabinet, trailers accessories, etc.

The 5x10 is awesome with the side door and can be a «little garage» with a lot of space to put tools, spaire parts, tires, in the 2 feets extra lenght.

The 5x8 and 5x10 weights are OK to be under the 1500lbs Matrix capacity.

I never tow an Enclosed...

Someone talks about the «parachute effect» but with a V-Nose, it will better I think???
But, will I be in security with a 5x10 behind a Matrix???
Will I destroy my car (transmission, car)???

Well, should I buy the little 5x8 or the 5x10????????

SnoPro Cargopro Stealth website:
http://www.snoprotra...D=15&ModelID=28

Edited by plb, December 04, 2009 - 11:52 AM.


  • inthedirtagain

Posted December 04, 2009 - 02:37 PM

#2

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't do it. A small flatbed or utility trailer is one thing, but an enclosed trailer is different. The Matrix is a lightweight car, designed for economy and commuting. You would have a significant amount of drag behind you, even if it were empty. Side winds along the freeway/highway could be dangerous, not to mention trailer sway if you hit a pot-hole. Don't know how much abuse the unit-body construction could take, either. Worse case scenario, your car could potentially be ripped in half. Not that it would, but it is theoretically possible.

My advice, if its worth anything to you............trade the Matrix in for a small truck or SUV if you are dead-set on the enclosed trailer concept. One last thing to consider: how many times have you seen an econobox towing a U-haul down the road?

  • durangoman

Posted December 04, 2009 - 03:26 PM

#3

Hi,

I have a 2005 manual Toyota Matrix

I want an enclosed trailer.


Then you have a problem, but it can be solved by buying a truck.

  • TheGary

Posted December 07, 2009 - 09:17 AM

#4

The truck solves everything but cost and milage.
I have a 5x10 wells cargo enclosed trailer that I am pulling behind a VW jetta diesel. You need to make some sacrifices to tow with a small car. You are going in the right direction but I have a few suggestions for you. #1 get a low profile trailer, The wells cargo is not cheep but it is very well made and is only 11 in. off the ground. #2 Do not get a V nose, the v nose was originally designed for snowmo trailers so you could have a front ramp and drive them off. It has since been thought that it reduces wind drag. It would except for one thing, wind is rarely coming straight on, it comes from an angle most of the time and the v nose makes a small vehicle get blown around more than it normally would. #3 get a nosecone on the front of the trailer it is made to cut wind drag. Here again the wells cargo is the only brand that has them custom made to fit there trailers. You can add them to other brands with a universal one sold by nosecone. #4 go with the 5ft wide to reduce your wind resistance even more. #5 get the 10 ft trailer, you will never feal the extra 100lbs. If I put the bikes on an angle with the wheels against the side wall with some stops I can put 3 dirt bikes in it and a lot of extra equipment. You would not want to haul 3 bikes with a small car but it is nice to know I can put them in it and haul it with my truck or trailblazer if the need arises.
You will know it is back there for sure but as long as you are below the 1500 tow rating I think you will be good to go. Dont expect to be able to tow it in overdrive. Make sure you install a trans cooler and use common sense and you will be fine. I strongly advise you to at least look at the wells cargo cycle wagons before you buy. I think it will really open your eyes at what to look for at least. I hope this helps.
PS; You will need to be very carfull to keep your tongue weight at the 200lb limit. You will need to plan your placement of things so that the weight is right. I am in the process of making a swing away tire carrier for the back now so that I can help keep the tongue light. You will also need to ancor the bike 2ft back in the trailer rather than all the way to the front. Use a scale and test load the trailer for tongue weight to get it right. Make sure you get the trailer level behind you tow vehical, if the nose of the trailer is up the wind will catch the under belly of the trailer and create drag. The other reason not to get a v nose is that the tongue is a good place to put a gas can, propane tank, and battery. I am planing to use mine for weekend trips and will sleep in my trailer so the tongue will not be wasted space.
I just reread your post and see you have a stick so you wont need the trans cooler. You might think about using synthetic gear oil in the trans and diff though.

Edited by TheGary, December 07, 2009 - 09:56 AM.


  • TheGary

Posted December 07, 2009 - 10:08 AM

#5

I just went to look up the engines available in your matrix. All they have is a 1.8. Even with my sugestions in the post above it will probably be too much for your car. If you had a 2.4 or larger with more torque it would work but I am doubtfull that your car will pull the enclosed trailer being discussed. Sorry if I steered you wrong. My diesel jetta has a chip to boost hp and torque. It is making as much torque as a v6 so it pulls it fairly well but I definatly know its back there.I used to own a Camry with a 2.0 and 120 hp. I would pull a 16ft boat to and from the lake with it pretty often. Its weight was about 1500lbs. The car did it just fine but I never pulled it further than about 45 min. from my house and kept the trans out of OD. I was pushing it with that boat and I would get about 18 mpg towing it. If you are just making short trips you may get by but I definatly think it would not be good on a long haul of a few hrs each way.

  • Smacaroni

Posted December 07, 2009 - 12:15 PM

#6

I'm with TheGary and everybody else, I think it can be done, however, I don't think it's a good idea, even with the manual tranny. (bonus points for that).
Why not get an old beater truck for a couple hundred bucks and tow your enclosed trailer with that? Get a 2WD, it'll be cheaper and be able to tow easier since there's less overall weight and much less unsprung weight, preferably a manual again, but even if it's an AT, if the tranny takes a dump, junk it and buy another.

  • plb

Posted December 07, 2009 - 12:34 PM

#7

Thank you everybody for the answers.:banghead:

Like I wrote before, I never drive an enclosed trailer and I wanted to know your experiences.

I want to be in security in my car and I read all your advices.

Maybe I will be for a realy mini-mini-enclosed (like a 4x6) for my two racings mountains bikes/parts and forgive to put a motorcycle on it soon or I will check for a small/light truck and buy a real «big trailer/garage on wheels» to use for both bike/moto when I will sell my Matrix later. Maybe the choice will be the second option.:cheers:

Thanks everybody.

  • kenr74

Posted December 08, 2009 - 10:01 AM

#8

I think you might get away with the weight but the wind resistance would kill you. I pull a tent trailer or a regular travel trailer. Both are close to the same weight but the TT feels heavy since it is pushing so much more air.

  • Vankaye

Posted December 09, 2009 - 12:34 PM

#9

My concern would be braking with that kind of weight... But I'm spoiled, I pull a little
5x16 enclosed trailer with an F350 Dually.

What about a cheap van? I've seen a lot of full size vans for sale for under $1000.
Seems like it would be a great alternative to an enclosed trailer and provide an extra
vehicle for hauling all kinds of manly stuff! : )

  • inthedirtagain

Posted December 11, 2009 - 11:40 PM

#10

You might get away with a 4x6, but I don't think a full-size dirtbike would fit in one.

  • Chickenhauler

Posted December 12, 2009 - 12:18 PM

#11

#2 Do not get a V nose, the v nose was originally designed for snowmo trailers so you could have a front ramp and drive them off. It has since been thought that it reduces wind drag. It would except for one thing, wind is rarely coming straight on, it comes from an angle most of the time and the v nose makes a small vehicle get blown around more than it normally would. #3 get a nosecone on the front of the trailer it is made to cut wind drag. Here again the wells cargo is the only brand that has them custom made to fit there trailers. You can add them to other brands with a universal one sold by nosecone.


If a V-nose doesn't perorm because of side winds (which is a fallacy), then what good will a nose cone do?

Reality is, if the side wind is affecting your resistance more than the headwind (speed you're traveling at), you're probably already on your side or on the ditch.

I've had V-nose, blunt nose, and nosecones, and can honestly testify that the V-nose pulls with less resistance than the other two options.

Pulling a blunt nose (even with a nosecone) is still like pulling a brick....you're going to encounter more headwinds (due to traveling forward) than sidewinds.

But, that said, I wouldn't pull an enclosed trailer with a small car. Tough on the car, and if the winds do pick up, going to be tough on the driver.

  • TheGary

Posted December 13, 2009 - 08:17 PM

#12

I have not owned a V nose trailer. The investigating I have done. I reached the oposite conclusion. It would not be the first time that info was wrong. The problem is that the only places that have info are places that sell said product so the info is slanted most of the time. The few threads I found on discussion boards on the subject seemed to agree with the manufacturers info. For the record I did not mean to present that all wind comes at the side. Obvously with forward motion most will be from the front. What I was trying to say (from investigation of people that own them and manufacturer info) is that the large angled face at the front catches wind coming from an angle and because it hits the surface at close to a 90 degree angle it does want to push the trailer in a direction that makes small tow vehicals wander around on the road. The info I found was that this did not seem to be a problem with larger heavier tow vehicals but was very prevalent with small ,light tow vehicals. The info from owners with small vehicals is obveously limited so It is very possibly wrong. I would suggest that those wanting to pull with a small vehical do their own research to make a conclusion. I only know that with my trailer with the bubble I have not had a problem with wandering. There are times where I feel more drag from wind gusts but I do not get any side drifting.
I am not good at typing so My preveous post was not as clear as I thought it was because I was trying to explain with as few words as possible. Sorry for any confusion or misunderstanding it may have caused.

  • Chickenhauler

Posted December 14, 2009 - 07:24 AM

#13

The smallest vehicle I've pulled enclosed with is my Jeep Cherokee (the short wheelbase 2 door model) and I will agree, that one got more effected by side winds, but I have to say that a flat nose affected it even more.....the lack of "grunt" that machine had was more noticeable when towing the flat nose trailer than the V nose.

Which got me thinking.......what about a slope nose trailer for a smaller car? Something similar to the hard shell cover that goes over an open snowmobile trailer? I think that would produce better results with a small car, considering the tow vehicle is short and narrow (doesn't cut the wind like a truck or SUV).

Something like this?

http://minneapolis.c...1508993913.html

http://minneapolis.c...1508562123.html

Too bad they're so wide, but you get the idea.

  • Smacaroni

Posted December 14, 2009 - 08:02 AM

#14

I'd be willing to attempt towing those hard shell snow mobile trailers with a car, but not with snow mobiles inside. Thing is, I think the first one you posted would be too short to keep an adult bike upright and still close the lid.
Buy one, drag it to PA and we'll hitch it up to my Miata!
I can't wait to get the Wagoneer on the road again.

You might get away with a 4x6, but I don't think a full-size dirtbike would fit in one.

Yes, they do, but they don't fit very well. When inserted straight on the trailer, the rear most tire hangs off significantly. Considering the cost/resale value difference between a 4X6 (difficult resale) and a 4X8 ($150 more expensive easy to resell at $200 or so under cost), the only thing you should buy a 4X6 trailer for is to use as a garden wagon to hitch to your lawn tractor.

  • TheGary

Posted December 14, 2009 - 08:36 AM

#15

The smallest vehicle I've pulled enclosed with is my Jeep Cherokee (the short wheelbase 2 door model) and I will agree, that one got more effected by side winds, but I have to say that a flat nose affected it even more.....the lack of "grunt" that machine had was more noticeable when towing the flat nose trailer than the V nose.

Which got me thinking.......what about a slope nose trailer for a smaller car? Something similar to the hard shell cover that goes over an open snowmobile trailer? I think that would produce better results with a small car, considering the tow vehicle is short and narrow (doesn't cut the wind like a truck or SUV).

Something like this?

http://minneapolis.c...1508993913.html

http://minneapolis.c...1508562123.html

Too bad they're so wide, but you get the idea.


I agree with you on that sloped nose design. The bad part is the slop steels a lot of space in the trailer. I would love to do a test session with small cars and different design trailers to get an affirmative answer as to the most efficient design. With my trailer I think that if I towed it with a station wagon style vehicle it would be much better than my sedan style tow vehicle.

  • Goebz

Posted December 15, 2009 - 11:01 PM

#16

YOU CAN HAUL ONE OF THESE BEHIND A SMALLER CAR.

Posted Image

GO TO GOLITTLEGUY.COM AND CHECK OUT THE DIFFERENT SIZES. THE PLATFORM MODELS COME WITH VARIOUS DECKS ON THE FRONT. THEY ARE EXTREMELY LIGHT AND AERODYNAMIC. WHILE THEY ARE NOT YOUR DREAM OF AN ENCLOSED TRAILER YOU DO GET A PLACE TO SLEEP AND HAUL YOUR BIKE.

Posted Image

Posted Image

  • Smacaroni

Posted December 17, 2009 - 09:19 AM

#17

Hmm... cool idea, sort of. The one you posted first has a curb weight of 1520lbs. I'm guessing that's w/o bikes and gear. W/ two bikes, that's gonna put it over the class I hitch limit. I know, it says "curb weight", but really, think about it, your average person isn't gonna stick two super minis on it, they're gonna put two full sized bikes on it, load it full of gear and food and that's not going to take long to max out the 2200lb gross, which is still over class I.
Yeah, that's what I meant to say.
What's the deal with not listing MSRP? Don't they know that MSRP stands for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Pricing? That means dealers can charge what ever they please, but it's the suggested price?

Well, it's a cool idea, but I bet they're quite pricey.
Oh, and if you're gonna make it 7/8 feet wide with the wheels, why not use the space that's available for quarters? Or, make it narrower and run the wheels under the trailer?

That's just me. I do think it's an idea with a lot of potential though.

I agree with you on that sloped nose design. The bad part is the slop steels a lot of space in the trailer. I would love to do a test session with small cars and different design trailers to get an affirmative answer as to the most efficient design. With my trailer I think that if I towed it with a station wagon style vehicle it would be much better than my sedan style tow vehicle.

You supply the trailer, I'll supply the car and bikes. Feel free to include car and/or bikes though.

Before they screwed with the CAFE ratings, the station wagon was the family outing vehicle of choice. Unfortunately, it's hard to make them relatively economical, unlike the SUV which qualifies as a truck some how, skirting most of the CAFE crap. SWs are probably a lot better to tow with compared to a sedan because of the added wheel base and heavier curb weight.

  • Kyron

Posted December 17, 2009 - 01:27 PM

#18

or I will check for a small/light truck and buy a real «big trailer/garage on wheels» to use for both bike/moto when I will sell my Matrix later. Maybe the choice will be the second option.:cheers:

Thanks everybody.


In that case, buy the 5x10 enclosed trailer now and see how it does with your car :moon:

  • xr88honda

Posted December 18, 2009 - 08:38 PM

#19

if you have a bike you should probally have a truck or atleast a suv with a trailer the compact isnt a hot tow rig i pulled a 6x12 encclosed with a 91 s10 for years then i had a tahoe sport for a few years now i have a 07 chevy colorado short bed 2wd small cab it does very well but damn that s10 was the toughest vehicle i ever owned you can pick them up for like a grand all day mine had a 2.8 v6 i got 26 mpg all over about 20 when i pulled the trailer




 
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