Ring installation need help!


27 replies to this topic
  • Two-Six

Posted November 26, 2009 - 10:48 AM

#1

I am putting my 06 YZ450F back together and need help with putting the rings on the new OEM piston. I need to know which order the rings go on the piston and where should the end gaps go? The manual is confusing me, thanks.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 26, 2009 - 12:53 PM

#2

Assemble the oil ring by first putting the corrugated expander in the groove, then installing each scraper ring over it, one each at the top and bottom of the ring groove. The two compression rings are different thicknesses. One of them won't fit in both grooves. Any mark on the ring indicates the top side.

The manual shows the position of the various ends of the rings. Here, it refers to the expander as "oil ring", and to the gaps of the scraper rings as "oil ring end", upper and lower. Section two of the manual shows the ring cross sections and lists gap and side clearance for each.

  • Two-Six

Posted November 26, 2009 - 03:02 PM

#3

Assemble the oil ring by first putting the corrugated expander in the groove, then installing each scraper ring over it, one each at the top and bottom of the ring groove. The two compression rings are different thicknesses. One of them won't fit in both grooves. Any mark on the ring indicates the top side.

The manual shows the position of the various ends of the rings. Here, it refers to the expander as "oil ring", and to the gaps of the scraper rings as "oil ring end", upper and lower. Section two of the manual shows the ring cross sections and lists gap and side clearance for each.


Thanks, I just got the motor together. Man what a pain it was to get the cylinder over all those rings! this was my first four stroke top end and it wasn't that bad at all. I have one question though. I have the motor out of the frame to assemble it and when I turn the motor over I can hear the rings making a scaping sound on the cylinder. Its isn't that loud and doesn't sound to bad so I am guessing it is normal? It might not even be the rings, it could have been the valves sucking up air too??

  • grayracer513

Posted November 26, 2009 - 04:16 PM

#4

Probably normal. If you have a plug in it, the loudest thing is apt to be the compression squeezing past the ring gaps.

You did understand the torque process for the head, then?

  • Two-Six

Posted November 26, 2009 - 04:50 PM

#5

Probably normal. If you have a plug in it, the loudest thing is apt to be the compression squeezing past the ring gaps.

You did understand the torque process for the head, then?


Holy crap, man those directions for the head were probably the most confusing thing I have ever read in my entire life, and I am a senior in high school:bonk:.

I tourqued them in a criss cross pattern to 22 foot pounds, then took the bolts out and tourqued them to 14, took a sharpie and marked all the bolts. I tighted them and tried to get the marks on the bolt 180 degrees from the marks on the head but I just couldn't do it, the bolts didn't seem like they could take all of that torque. So I just tightned them so the mark on the bolt is 90 degrees away from the mark on the head.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 26, 2009 - 09:24 PM

#6

Torque them another 90. It's important.

  • Two-Six

Posted November 27, 2009 - 06:00 AM

#7

Torque them another 90. It's important.


I felt that the bolts were about to break, I did not put the moly grease on the them like the manual said to, I just cleaned the threads with brake cleaner.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 27, 2009 - 08:26 AM

#8

I felt that the bolts were about to break, I did not put the moly grease on the them like the manual said to, I just cleaned the threads with brake cleaner.

Then you did it fundamentally wrong, and you should remove the bolts and rerun the final torque sequence again, because as it is, your head isn't clamped down tightly enough. The bolts should be lubed at the threads, and a dab under the bolt head where they bear on the washers, with an anti-seize compound that you can easily get at an auto parts store, or a bearing grease containing moly.

By not using one, even your initial torque stage of 14 ft/lb provided about 10-15% less clamping force than was called for.

  • tech24

Posted November 27, 2009 - 08:34 AM

#9

agreed, lube is important, I use motor oil myself but very important for proper torque. You didn't line up the ring gaps did you? they should be offset. And bolts won't break they are hardened....good luck!

  • grayracer513

Posted November 27, 2009 - 09:00 AM

#10

agreed, lube is important, I use motor oil myself but very important for proper torque.

Motor oil is inadequate for that application.

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  • tech24

Posted November 27, 2009 - 09:48 AM

#11

Motor oil is inadequate for that application.


Built a few motors and never had an issue but always better to use what is recommended. However they were mostly 400EX and xr200's (not mine they don't have tuning fork emblems). I've also used sta-lube brake caliper grease which is mostly MOLY and graphite.

  • Two-Six

Posted November 27, 2009 - 12:21 PM

#12

agreed, lube is important, I use motor oil myself but very important for proper torque. You didn't line up the ring gaps did you? they should be offset. And bolts won't break they are hardened....good luck!


I did offset the rings like the manual said to and I started the bike just to see if it runs and it does.

  • tech24

Posted November 27, 2009 - 12:40 PM

#13

cool well hopefully all is well, now if I can get mine running here in a few I'll be happy

  • Two-Six

Posted November 27, 2009 - 02:49 PM

#14

cool well hopefully all is well, now if I can get mine running here in a few I'll be happy


Yea hopefully it is well, I was terrified when I first started it. It started right up and didn't make any noise so I am guessing everything it good.

I even went out and bought a hour meter to keep track of oil changes and valve checks. I plan on checking valves every 15 hours, does this sound like a good interval? Another question, how long should I go on oil changes when running rotella? I usually do it every other ride, but I don't know how many hours that is?

  • stx

Posted November 27, 2009 - 07:40 PM

#15

did you pull the bolts lube and re-torque sure hope so
if not well nevermind

  • Two-Six

Posted November 27, 2009 - 08:01 PM

#16

did you pull the bolts lube and re-torque sure hope so
if not well nevermind


I went and tightned them a little more, but no I did not pull them and lube them:bonk: They are really really tight, I got them at 60 degrees from the marks on the cylinder, they felt like they could not take any more torque.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 27, 2009 - 09:27 PM

#17

they felt like they could not take any more torque.

That's because you didn't lube them. Hopefully, your head gasket will hold.

As for Rotella, I assume you're using it because it's cheap. Change it every ride, or switch to something that will retain its viscosity.

  • Two-Six

Posted November 28, 2009 - 06:33 AM

#18

That's because you didn't lube them. Hopefully, your head gasket will hold.

As for Rotella, I assume you're using it because it's cheap. Change it every ride, or switch to something that will retain its viscosity.


Can you recomend a cheap oil that will retain its viscosity?

  • grayracer513

Posted November 28, 2009 - 08:03 AM

#19

Can you recomend a cheap oil that will retain its viscosity?

Cheap oils don't do that.

As of now, the oils that I know of that provably do stand up as a transmission lube are:

Amsoil Advanced Synthetic Motorcycle Oil (MCF, MCV, & MCT)
Mobil 1 Racing 4T
Mobil 1 V-Twin
Golden Spectro 4 Petro/Syn blend
Golden Spectro American 4
Golden Spectro Platinum
Golden Spectro Platinum HD
BelRay EXS
Motul 300V
Motul 300V Sport
Motul 300V Comp
Motul 7100 Ester
Maxima Maxum 4
Torco T4SR
Torco V Series SS
Polaris Victory
Pennzoil Motorcycle
Castrol RS R4
Harley-Davidson Syn-3

There may well be others that will also retain viscosity well. These listed have demonstrated the ability.

  • Two-Six

Posted November 28, 2009 - 09:44 AM

#20

That's because you didn't lube them. Hopefully, your head gasket will hold.

As for Rotella, I assume you're using it because it's cheap. Change it every ride, or switch to something that will retain its viscosity.


Well you were right, I went out today and checked the oil and it looked like milk. I checked the coolant and it was low, so I'm pretty sure it was leaking through the head gasket. I pulled the cams out and pulled the head bolts out, then I smeared anti-seize on the threads and the heads of the bolt. I followed the tightening procedure and it was way easier to get the bolt 180 degrees from the marks. Thanks alot gray, I would have had no idea what to do if you hadn't said something about lubing the bolts.





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