Snow studs

20 replies to this topic
  • Acmesalute76

Posted 11 November 2009 - 09:13 AM

#1


Anyone done this? I've found a few threads in the archives but looking for more input. I am looking at Kold Kutters as my option because I believe they are hardened. Not trying to race or anything, just tool around this winter. Ride my dual sport when it snows.

I have worn out Pirelli mt21's, and they are pretty worn, with about a quarter inch of knob left on the center of the rear. I'm thinking of getting half inch screws, so I don't go through the tire. Should I get liners? Will the half inch screws be enough?

Any input from those more experienced would be appreciated.

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  • CBus660R

Posted 11 November 2009 - 11:51 AM

#2

For the front tire, Kold Kutters will work fine. For the rear, I had a hard time keeping them in the knobs for more than a few miles, after about 15 miles, they were all gone. The rear tire was a Pirelli MT16 which isn't the hardest rubber compound tire out there. My friends had better success with the Michelin S-12 rear which has a harder rubber compound, but still lost quit a few. If you plan on doing a lot of riding, it's worth spending the money on a studded tire like http://www.mitasmx.c...uct_detail&p=66. They are a lot of money, but as long as you don't get into a bunch of rocks under the snow, they will last forever. One guy I ride with bought his over 10 years ago!

  • kxvett

Posted 11 November 2009 - 11:58 AM

#3

I discovered gripstuds a few weeks ago. Do a search for the website, as I can't seem to attach the address. They are sending me several sets for testing, and if they are as advertised, I will be posting the results of our testing. Until then, it's another source worth at least investigating.

  • CBus660R

Posted 11 November 2009 - 12:36 PM

#4

kxvett said:

I discovered gripstuds a few weeks ago. Do a search for the website, as I can't seem to attach the address. They are sending me several sets for testing, and if they are as advertised, I will be posting the results of our testing. Until then, it's another source worth at least investigating.

Interesting, but at $200 to do a rear tire, I'd rather spend the extra $125 and get the Trelleborg I linked to.

  • Acmesalute76

Posted 11 November 2009 - 03:29 PM

#5

Those are some pricey tires. I'm not sure just how much riding I'll be doing yet, right now I'm thinking just to class when it snows but then again I never thought I'd be trail riding as much as I do now! If screws will work on the front though I might buy a studded rear tire. I just don't have a lot of money and I am not looking to ride very seriously at this point.

If I run screws up front will I need a liner? Any issues with flats?

  • CBus660R

Posted 11 November 2009 - 03:58 PM

#6

The Kold Kutters are short enough you don't have to worry about a liner to protect the tube. You'll be surprised how much traction they offer. I did a few rides last year and I'm hooked. That's why I'm stepping up and getting a Trelle for the rear. I will be sticking with the KKs for the front.

  • Acmesalute76

Posted 11 November 2009 - 06:40 PM

#7

OK, I think I am going to go with the Kold Kutters for now. I'm not doing anything too serious. It will be a pain in the ass to take the tires off to stud them, but that way I will know the screws are not sticking through, which is important given how worn out my knobbies are.

  • markvan

Posted 11 November 2009 - 07:31 PM

#8

You can use sheet metal screws as well, but cold kutters are definitely going to work better...especially on ice. But machine screws are cheap and make things rideable. Kold cutters work incredible on bare ice. They are better than you can imagine. They down side is they suck in any amount of snow. For riding in snow, carriage bolts work good, snowmobile studs might work better overall. (the one option I haven't tried yet.....but have heard good things....) Carriage bolts give you some traction in deeper snow, but suck on ice....so if you are on ice, Kold cutters, snow - bolts, which are longer.

Check out some of Frostbites posts on the subject.... Your setup really depends on what/where your riding. Bare ice is totally different than a foot of snow.

  • Acmesalute76

Posted 12 November 2009 - 10:05 AM

#9

I plan on riding mostly on snow, with very little ice. Mostly just unplowed roads. So maybe I will try some shorter bolts? Sounds like screws are not what I want.

  • The J-ROD

Posted 12 November 2009 - 12:16 PM

#10

I put 1-1/2" cement screws installed from the inside of my tires a few of years ago and used them for 3 years. They worked really well in snow up to 1' deep and were ok on bare ice. As long as the swingarm wasn't dragging in the snow while the front wheel was at 11 o'clock I was still moving. I mainly used them for blasting around in fields and buzzing around on unplowed lakes. They also lasted a long time.

It is actually quite fun to nail a 5' deep snowdrifts at full speed and get buried. Its like hitting a big pillow, lol. :busted:

  • kxvett

Posted 12 November 2009 - 02:17 PM

#11

We have tried various screws in the past, and as long as you don't ride aggressive, they will work, but not a good option for us since we all ride fast. The front screws holds pretty good, but as soon as you start to ride aggressive, the rear screws just get thrown out. That's why the gripstuds are interesting, as they have a huge bite on the screw. I think you can get away with running 100 studs per tire, which will cost $100 per tire, but this is just a guess at this point.

The good thing about the gripstuds is that you can screw these little guys in the tire of your choice, so more options than those offered by just buying a studded tire. Several questions still remain, which I plan on answering during my testing.

There are certainly more options now than in the past....

  • stlavsa

Posted 12 November 2009 - 02:25 PM

#12

To the original poster.. what kind of bike do you have??

Like everyone has said, those kold kutters, or really any kind of screw that you install from the outside, will just get ripped out in a HURRY. Like your very first ride will be cut short because they are all gone.

Unless ur on a little pit bike or like a klx 125, crf230, stuff like that might hold em. Anything with power forget about it.

  • Acmesalute76

Posted 12 November 2009 - 05:37 PM

#13

I've got a KLR 250, so no, not a lot of power here, lol. I'm thinking about going the ultra cheapo way and just using sheet metal screws. It would be super easy too. I don't feel like taking my tires off if I don't need to. I doubt I will be doing much serious riding so I feel like that might be all I need.

  • kxvett

Posted 17 November 2009 - 03:12 PM

#14

Acmesalute76 said:

I've got a KLR 250, so no, not a lot of power here, lol. I'm thinking about going the ultra cheapo way and just using sheet metal screws. It would be super easy too. I don't feel like taking my tires off if I don't need to. I doubt I will be doing much serious riding so I feel like that might be all I need.

This will be cheap to do, but as many of us have posted, it won't work for long. I added screws to an 80cc, and they were gone fast. Just not enough bite to hold onto the tire.

I received the screw in studs, and these things look great. I will be testing in the next few weeks, and will post up with pictures and a nice overall review...unless they just get tossed out like the screws...

Later...

  • CBus660R

Posted 17 November 2009 - 06:24 PM

#15

kxvett said:

I received the screw in studs, and these things look great. I will be testing in the next few weeks, and will post up with pictures and a nice overall review...unless they just get tossed out like the screws...

Later...

Definitely let us know how it goes. I'm interested to see how they hold up for the rear.

  • superdavej975

Posted 13 December 2009 - 04:47 PM

#16

I used #12 SS 3/4" long yesterday had to run them through the carcus of the tire and cut them off, installed liner worked great didn't lose a one and rode agressive for about 4 hours. Cost was about $40 for rear, it took 140 of them for rear about 140 #10 X 1/2" for front $30

  • DEMI

Posted 13 December 2009 - 07:20 PM

#17

gripstuds are well worth it and better than Kold Kutters.

  • kxvett

Posted 15 December 2009 - 11:04 AM

#18

I'll upload some pictures and post later, but thought I would provide an update on testing so far. I have been working with the company to enhance the documentation on installation and other issues, but here are the results from the first ride.

Last Saturday, 3 of us went to Canfield OHV, just north of Post Falls, Idaho. The terrain is rocks, rocks, and more rocks, and I was hoping to get to the snow rather quickly. Unfortunately, the snow was much higher than we imagined, so I had to ride about 17 miles of jagged rocky hills to get to the snow. The rocks provided a great test as to the durability of the studs, and how well they stay in the tire.

To my surprise, I lost one stud, but that's only because I ripped the entire knob off the new tire. The rest of the studs stayed in place. In a nut shell, once these things are installed, they WILL NOT come out of the tire, even in nasty jagged rocks. So, riding in snow will never get these little guys to come out.

Once we hit the ice and snow, riding was effortless. Of the three of us, I had the studs, another rider had screws from the hardware store installed from the inside out, and third rider did not have any type of gripping installed in the tires.

As we approached the first long section of ice covered road that had been driven on, making the road a solid sheet, I was able to maintain speeds between 40-50 mph, standing the entire time, and held my speed through every corner. The studs kept a firm grip on the ice, and I never felt the tires slip.

The rider with hardware screws was the second fastest, but was unable to maintain the kind of control that allowed the same speeds as was possible with the studs.

The rider with just tires was all over the ice, and the corners were SCARY! He was able to ride the ice, but not without a lot of risk, a lot of close calls, and a very slow pace.

Next up were trails, and here again, the studs made snow covered hill climbs effortless. It was like riding in normal condition. As a result, while the other riders struggled to get their bikes through the snow covered terrain, I didn't struggle at all, and was able to maintain a standing position the entire day.

I have 100 studs installed in the rear tire, so about every other knob has a stud. However, I think the hot ticket is going to be studs on every center knob in the rear, and then every other knob on the outside. This will reduce the total number of studs required for the initial purchase.

Up front, I used 125 studs, as these are smaller studs so you get more in a package. I used a V pattern which seemed to work well, without any slipping. However, I think the hot ticket up front is to concentrate on the outside knobs rather than the inside knobs, as the outside will keep you from losing the the front tire in a slide, which uses the outside knobs.

The reason for all of the pattern testing is to test the effectiveness of less than 100% coverage of the tire. Right now, it appears this is possible with little impact on traction, so will save folks money on the purchase. I have also recommended that the company reduce their package quantity, as this will ensure folks don't waste money on purchasing studs they do not need.

I will have a full writeup after testing is complete, but having run screws before, and now studs, I'm sold. The good thing about these studs is that since they will not come out unless you rip the knob off the tire, your studded tires should last years and years, as snow riding will wear the rubber down very slowly. I'm thinking a set of studded tires with these studs will have a lifespan of about 10 years as long as the tires are not stored outside during the summer.

Hope this helps.

  • rebelbanshee

Posted 15 December 2009 - 12:42 PM

#19

pre drill the tire and run concrete screw from the inside. SICK NASTY winter traction. my rear tire cost $35 to make. I run kold kutters in the front tire.

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  • smittie

Posted 19 December 2009 - 09:26 PM

#20

Does anyone know where to get the carbide rally type studs?



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