Lets put our input for the Reiter Trail Plan in this thread so we can help gather information to give to DNR's chosen planner.

RTW has someone involved with helping put together ideas for 4X4 and Multi-use trails. He NEEDS our input here so he can put our concerns into play with what the other users want. We would like to come together with an overall trail plan to help steer the DNR selected trail planner towards a plan that fits all of OUR needs and not just DNR's. I'm planning on spending the weekend rididng trails in the upper area where the DNR proposed area will be. I want to make sure if we have any existing trails close to the proposed area that maybe we can show that the overall outline can be modified to include them in it.

Please remember this is to help figure out what we want and not bash other groups or rehash what once was or is possibly lost. It would be VERY helpful if we had any trail mapping that you may have and if you have videos of riding certain trails and if you can show where they are so we can get a feel for what "THE PERFECT TRAIL" would be. :thumbsup:

The Shocker said:

Steel water pipe and concrete? I would place them unusually close together such that bikes would hafta stop and weave their bars to get through. More than just two. Possibly four with BIGAZZ 6' tall boulders adjoining the sides or simply in between large substantial trees.

shrubitup said:

Great! :thumbsup: This is helpful. We can try to strategically place our trail entrances to help form natural blockades as well. Paint them Bright so people know they have to stop to get through them and no chance in hell of anything with 4 wheels getting by. :thumbsup:

One thing we have to remember is that 6' tall boulders might present challenges to us getting them placed with equipment. I'm not sure how big the equipment we will have on hand is but if it's like what we used at the water crossings that might not be feasible. But we can always stack the biggest ones we can do.

To add to what Schrub said: A great filter is four posts in a row; the center two with a gap of 24 inches and 36" high, two outer post at least 36" apart and at least 60" high. These will let almost all motorcycles pass but present a significant obstacle to everything else. The 24" gap will pass the footpegs and boots of a rider and the bars will pass over the inner post and between the outer posts. Then add boulders or site between trees.

As far as trails I record all of my rides on a Garmin GPS unit and then upload the tracks to my PC. If you can find riders who have recorded tracks with a Garmin 60 or 76 you will have very good trail maps. Also check with the owner of Switchbacks.com, he may have some raw data tracks or trails for the area that he hasn't published; he relies on volunteers submiting tracks that he converts to Mapsource overlays.

chuck4788 said:

Would you be willing to share any of your GPS track data? Even if you could take a screenshot of some trails. I think the area they proposed it pretty much around the Y that goes to the two radio towers and goes up around the furthest radio tower.

I will also check with Switchbacks. Thanks.

We need to be part of this "Official Planning," taking ownership in building, protecting and maintaining it. So once we get to that point, we need some type of enforcement mechanism..."Trails Angels." Also, we need to have an official public volunteer log book that includes donations to a Reiter fund, maybe even a special $$$ permit to ride the area (including hikers, bikers and horse riders - since they do absolutely nothing but enjoy what we have built). I think that we can really show the "Green Community" that we do much, much more donating, fee paying, volunteering, policing, maintaining and cleaning than Hikers, bikers and horse riders do...period! This could be a model for all riding areas.

fitness2go said:

The DNR "Forest Watch" program is what should be implemented.

Lets hear ideas and feedback on what you would like the "perfect" trail to be.

The Shocker said:

Unfortunetly the last time I rode Reiter was before GPS was invented!!

Beg or borrow a Garmin 60 or 76, set it to "most often" on tracking, put it in a pocket and ride all of the trails. Myself or another who is familiar with Garmin Mapsource can edit the track into trail segments and print them out on a topo map.

What is the DNR "Forest Watch" and how is it enforced?

The perfect trail would be properly posted with signs...mostly single track (easy to extreme), but with a mix of flowing two track and plenty of challenging "Reiter" sections using sturdy bridges where needed. Trails need to be segregated from other users so that ongoing evaluations can be made.

fitness2go said:

Gifford Pinchot uses a difficulty rating system simular to alpine ski areas; green circle=easiest, blue square= moderate, black diamond= difficult, two black diamonds= most difficult.

Sturdy bridges are available custom made in aluminum from local marina construction companies in any length and width. Probably a lot cheaper than the steel ones DNR buys.

I checked my version of redtrails and the only trail in the area is the Lake Isabel Trail, so a GPS expedition is in order.

here are couple tracks

http://stumpjumpers..../10/fbloop.html

http://stumpjumpers....fundayloop.html

I have the gpx files for these. I have a garmin vista HCx that works fairly well at reiter.

fitness2go said:

I will post Forest Watch info in the other thread as I want this to stay on topic of BUILDING/DESIGNING of trails.

Evans Creek has a rating system that might be able to be used as a guidline. http://www.nwjeepn.c.../Evanscreek.pdf
I'm not sure what DNR's policies are about trail ratings. This may be affected by the immunity law that we are needing to get changed.

And I agree that we need posts limiting width at ALL entrances/exits of S/T trails.

trav said:

The first is likely too far out of the proposed outline :(

We need to look at existing or possible trails from Deer Creek Flat to the farthest radio tower.

I plan to take my bike up to Reiter this weekend to scout around and use my Delorme Earthmate PN-20 set to track my routes. Anybody want to come out and look at future routes and existing ones? (Disclaimer: We will NOT be blazing trails at least not on Bikes)

I think it would be reasonable to map existing trails even if they are out of the proposed boundaries that the DNR has recently defined.

We can always try to reclaim some or all of that area.

Of course, we want to prioritize which trails we want and it makes sense to provide input on the currently defined ORV area, but I would not ignore the rest of Reiter just because we've been told its off limits.

Great thread btw.

Woods_Rider said:

Good idea, just be careful with who you share.

Woods_Rider said:

I'm not intending to ignore the other areas, However we only have one weekend left to get the data for anything close to the proposed area. This is the critical data we need right now. I'm hoping more people may share their input for the other areas and maybe even some of the video I know is out there, that way we can work on expansion or to fight for more area after we get a plan together for the current proposal.

My concern is that if we keep fightig for them to keep ALL of Reiter open for us, we will lose our chance at getting good trails in their proposed area now.

tod701 said:

Who should we not be sharing trail info with?

The Shocker said:

We don't want to start mud slinging again. Let's just agree to not give anyone a map of where to go to destroy s/t. When there is some control over the area, the routes might magically appear.
We are making progress with this thread. Let's not derail it.

skydabber said:

Not trying to sling mud, I just wanted to see if he could be more specific.
I agree that we don't want to see any of our trails destroyed but we NEED to gather info to help with the overall plan at the moment.

If anyone has info that could help but doesn't want it publicly posted, please email me the info and I will do everything I can to see that it doesn't make it any farther than the people trying to propose ideas to DNR and their Trail Planner. This is also why I've said I'm mostly interested in the specific area I mentioned earlier. That is the area we appear to be getting and the most critical at the moment. We don't need info or maps of all the rest of Reiter at least for the moment.

And we do have to keep an open mind that what we get implemented in the Trail Plan likely wont be the final amount of trails. If we stand strong and show volunteer support and also get DNR our NOVA funds back, we should see more added in the future as that is what DNR has said their intentions are.


neil.stamp@vzw.blackberry.net

The Shocker said:

It is critical that the plan is written that way.

The Shocker said:

That is must do.
Some people that don't like us are working the divide and conquer plan behind the scenes.

The Shocker said:

Workin' it, but its all up to the judge and how much of our tax dollars the Washington State Attorney General's Office wants to spend fighting to keep OUR money.

The Shocker said:

The intentions of Mark, David and Candace seem to be good, but keep in mind that they have neither ultimate control or the same jobs for life. As much as possible must be put in writing.

Remember that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and pavement is bad for knobbies.