Quiet pipe suggestions for 08 yz450f


86 replies to this topic
  • Aka.Goose

Posted October 22, 2009 - 01:35 AM

#21

Some forest park rangers I have heard of check for the stamp/sticker, and if that rider doesn't have the sticker, regardless if they do have a spark arrestor or not, will at least keep them from riding their bike any longer...

Well that's kind of my point...If you actually have your registration with you, AND the forestry approved sticker nice and clean with it (explain you kept it like that so it wouldn't rub/wear off the muffler) and are running below max db's, and have the screen, trust me, unless you're doing something stupid or disrespectful, NO ranger will mess with you...That's why I'm saying don't worry about the actual stamp on the muffler, as long as you keep the sticker around...
As far as the races, yes, having the Q4 will hinder your performance...Other guys will be using less restrictive pipes...So if they are equal to you in skill, they will blow by you coming out of turns...I didn't test the Q4 compared to stock, but I did test stock compared to the WB AlumProII and it woke up the bottom end greatly, easily noticeable difference...But it was loud as hell, and after a few rides following my own bike while on another bike, I realized it was so loud I was drawing attention, and that just plain sucks anywhere but at the track...I don't race, and like to be unnoticed so I went with the Q4...I'm happy about how freaking quiet it is, but noticed a big loss of that crazy low end hit I gained with the WB...I didn't ride the FMF back to back with stock, so I really couldn't give you a good comparison of the two, can't really say it took away from the bottem end of the stock pipe, but it tooks tons away from the bottom end of the WB pipe...If I were still racing I'd be pissed about it, but since I ride completely random terrain, I'm still happy with the FMF (did go up to 50T rear sprocket to try and compensate)...
Honestly if I were you, I'd probably take KAS's advice...Seems to be a good middle ground...Quiet arrested pipes are for trail riding, loud nonrestrictive pipes are for racing, seems he may have found a good compromise between the two...

  • YamaLink

Posted October 22, 2009 - 05:20 AM

#22

I ride with some guys who have the Leo, and it's quiet and held up to their abuse for a year or so.

As for the Rangers.....I agree with the most recent posts. And while I don't approve of this, I have heard of a few riders making stickers that read something along the lines of "US Forest Approved Spark Arrestor" in a font that looks like the government signs in our area. I've been with them during checks, and thankfully they were given a thumbs-up just on the visual. I have a SA, and always get the screen check rod down my silencer.

  • Jim813

Posted October 22, 2009 - 06:29 AM

#23

Well that's kind of my point...If you actually have your registration with you, AND the forestry approved sticker nice and clean with it (explain you kept it like that so it wouldn't rub/wear off the muffler) and are running below max db's, and have the screen, trust me, unless you're doing something stupid or disrespectful, NO ranger will mess with you...That's why I'm saying don't worry about the actual stamp on the muffler, as long as you keep the sticker around...


I understand what you are saying now.


As far as the races, yes, having the Q4 will hinder your performance...Other guys will be using less restrictive pipes...So if they are equal to you in skill, they will blow by you coming out of turns...I didn't test the Q4 compared to stock, but I did test stock compared to the WB AlumProII and it woke up the bottom end greatly, easily noticeable difference...But it was loud as hell, and after a few rides following my own bike while on another bike, I realized it was so loud I was drawing attention, and that just plain sucks anywhere but at the track...I don't race, and like to be unnoticed so I went with the Q4...I'm happy about how freaking quiet it is, but noticed a big loss of that crazy low end hit I gained with the WB...I didn't ride the FMF back to back with stock, so I really couldn't give you a good comparison of the two, can't really say it took away from the bottem end of the stock pipe, but it tooks tons away from the bottom end of the WB pipe...If I were still racing I'd be pissed about it, but since I ride completely random terrain, I'm still happy with the FMF (did go up to 50T rear sprocket to try and compensate)...
Honestly if I were you, I'd probably take KAS's advice...Seems to be a good middle ground...Quiet arrested pipes are for trail riding, loud nonrestrictive pipes are for racing, seems he may have found a good compromise between the two...


Like I said, I'm not too worried about power output. If I get blown by out of turns, so be it. Many things like: sound output, USFS approved spark arrestor, durability, and price concern me before power output.

  • Jim813

Posted October 30, 2009 - 03:00 PM

#24

Well, since this thread has been dead for a while with only a few solid suggestions, I decided to call around to see what the manufacturers had to say:

Dr.D:
They have a price increase starting Monday. Their $549.99 stainless full system will be $616.99 on 11/02. According to the sales clerk, their exhaust is 97-98 db without the quiet core insert, with it was 94db. The spark arrestor can be used in conjunction with the quiet core.

FMF:
After telling the sales clerk I needed an exhaust to pass 94db, and asked if the 4.1 muffler with insert would work, the clerk said the Q4 is what I'm looking for. This receptionist was not very helpful.

Pro-circuit:
Pro-circuit recommended their T-4 GP system. The GP system comes with an insert that brings the sound down to 94db exactly. The receptionist noted that the can would have to be repacked often to keep the sound at 94db. The T-4 GP system cost $780.00.

Yoshimura:
The RS-2 full system or slip on was recommended. Their RS-2 muffler meets the old 96db limit with the 96 db insert/USFS spark arrestor. This is the only insert that can be used in USFS areas, because the spark arrestor and insert are one piece. Yoshimura offer's a 94db insert, but that is with the new AMA standards, which puts it pretty close to the 96db insert with the older SAE J1287. The new AMA standard 94db insert does not come with a spark arrestor.

Jardine:
There RT94 system does not use an insert, the muffler is made to be 94db on its own. They are asking $590 for a full system, and $450 for a slip-on. The receptionist seemed to be saying that the can tested pretty close to the 94db limit.

Pro Moto Billet:
This receptionist was very helpful. The end cap replaces the end can and inner most baffle with their own spark arrested stainless steel cone and end cap. With most stock exhaust systems, the end cap and spark arrestor alone produce 97-97db. The quiet insert is around 95-6db, while the ultra quiet insert is 93-94 db.
The end cap is $144.95, and each quiet insert is $46.95

Leo-Vince:
Leo-Vince offers a slip on and full system in stainless steel. Both systems were expected around 93.2-93.5 db with the insert, and come with their special 50 hour packing. the slip on is $379, and the full system is $579.

As far as customer service goes, I was most happy with Pro-Circuit, Pro Moto Billet, and Leo-Vince. Yoshimura and Jardine were alright, while FMF and Dr.D should have employees who are more knowledgeable about their exhaust systems to answer questions( I asked for technical support every time). I'm still not sure what system to go with, although I am leaning towards Leo-Vince.

  • pscook

Posted October 30, 2009 - 06:32 PM

#25

FWIW, I just installed a Leo Vince on my 426 in place of my stock pipe. The Leo Vince dB killer is not a plug, it actually routes from the quiet side of the pipe. There are baffles installed in the muffler itself, making the muffler rather heavy compared to the stock pipe, but the quiet insert plugs the "straight through" portion of the pipe and all exhaust must go through the baffles to exit through the quiet insert. The tail piece is stamped "USFS approved", and the spark screen is at the very end of the pipe and accessible for inspection (and replacement). Very, very quiet with the insert, and deafening without. I actually think that it's louder than stock, but I don't have any way to measure the sound level.

I probably didn't explain the baffle portion very well, but it is stupid quiet with the insert installed. The muffler model is the X3 Enduro, and it is very sharp looking. I don't know if an '06-'07 will fit your bike, but here's an ebay special from Leo Vince.


  • usp4u

Posted October 31, 2009 - 07:42 AM

#26

get the one you want and if it only has the sticker, why not stamp it yourself ?

  • grayracer513

Posted October 31, 2009 - 10:43 AM

#27

get the one you want and if it only has the sticker, why not stamp it yourself ?

Because it's a felony to forge the stamping.

  • HwyChile

Posted October 31, 2009 - 04:02 PM

#28

FWIW, I just installed a Leo Vince on my 426 in place of my stock pipe. The Leo Vince dB killer is not a plug, it actually routes from the quiet side of the pipe. There are baffles installed in the muffler itself, making the muffler rather heavy compared to the stock pipe, but the quiet insert plugs the "straight through" portion of the pipe and all exhaust must go through the baffles to exit through the quiet insert. The tail piece is stamped "USFS approved", and the spark screen is at the very end of the pipe and accessible for inspection (and replacement). Very, very quiet with the insert, and deafening without. I actually think that it's louder than stock, but I don't have any way to measure the sound level.

I probably didn't explain the baffle portion very well, but it is stupid quiet with the insert installed. The muffler model is the X3 Enduro, and it is very sharp looking. I don't know if an '06-'07 will fit your bike, but here's an ebay special from Leo Vince.


I have the stainless Leo Vince X3 Enduro slip-on (it is the same as the YZ despite what Leo Vince says) and a stainless Pro Circuit header on my 2008 WR250F and I think the pipe is not that loud even with the insert out (It is quiter than most open pipes). It is certainly not deafening. I am happy with it.

  • KAS

Posted October 31, 2009 - 05:26 PM

#29

Something you have to take in to consideration (and it looks like folks at Yosh touched on this briefly) when asking the manufacturers about how loud their pipe is.

Some companies now test using the FIM sound standards, which are different than how the USFS rangers will test your pipe.

To make a long story short, a pipe that tests 94dB using the FIM standards WILL NOT test 94dB when a ranger tests it. It will test LOUDER.

So, when Dr. D or whoever tells you their pipe is 94dB, its most likely meets FIM tests for that number.

Some more tid bits for you:

-The Pro Moto Billet set up IS NOT QUIET in the least bit. Their "silent insert" just points the exhaust down towards the ground. Works for fooling the dB meter (sort of) but still sounds loud to your ear. The tone the insert gives the exhaust note is kind of aggravating, as well.

-I can speak from personal experience that the Dr. D & Pro Circuit pipes are not quiet. Inserts or not.

I'm of the opinion that your best options are the FMF Q4, Jardine, & Leo Vince.

Good luck!

  • Jim813

Posted October 31, 2009 - 10:54 PM

#30

Something you have to take in to consideration (and it looks like folks at Yosh touched on this briefly) when asking the manufacturers about how loud their pipe is.

Some companies now test using the FIM sound standards, which are different than how the USFS rangers will test your pipe.

To make a long story short, a pipe that tests 94dB using the FIM standards WILL NOT test 94dB when a ranger tests it. It will test LOUDER.

So, when Dr. D or whoever tells you their pipe is 94dB, its most likely meets FIM tests for that number.



I tried to ask about what sound test (FIM or SAE J1287)every manufacturer uses to determine their sound output, and the answer I normally received was " Well, its 94db with an insert." The phone service was mediocre at best with most of the companies, and often the receptionists didn't know what I was asking when it came to sound output and sound tests. Maybe I wasn't clear enough:excuseme:

Some more tid bits for you:

-The Pro Moto Billet set up IS NOT QUIET in the least bit. Their "silent insert" just points the exhaust down towards the ground. Works for fooling the dB meter (sort of) but still sounds loud to your ear. The tone the insert gives the exhaust note is kind of aggravating, as well.

-I can speak from personal experience that the Dr. D & Pro Circuit pipes are not quiet. Inserts or not.

I'm of the opinion that your best options are the FMF Q4, Jardine, & Leo Vince.

Good luck!


Thanks for the info. I have no experience with a Pro Moto Billet, but I can see how they won't be quiet in the real world.
I am with you that the Q4, Jardine, or Leo-Vince are the best options for what I'm looking for. I would still like more feedback from anyone running any of these systems if available:ride:


There is one thing I would like cleared up, if someone knowledgeable on the topic would like to chime in. I know the AMA recently adapted the FIM sound testing procedures and tests for 94db, but I understand that the sound testing is done at a lower RPM. Does anyone know what a FIM tested 94db muffler would test at using SAE J1287( 96db limit) standards?

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  • Jim813

Posted October 31, 2009 - 11:10 PM

#31

I have the stainless Leo Vince X3 Enduro slip-on (it is the same as the YZ despite what Leo Vince says) and a stainless Pro Circuit header on my 2008 WR250F and I think the pipe is not that loud even with the insert out (It is quiter than most open pipes). It is certainly not deafening. I am happy with it.


I'm not sure what you mean. Leo-Vince told me that they offer a motocross system for the yz450f, and an enduro system for the wr450f( which would fit my bike). Leo-Vince said there are differences between the two mufflers. The motocross system is serviceable and re-packable, while the enduro is non-serviceable. I am not sure if this just means that the enduro muffler comes with rivets that have to be drilled out so the muffler can be serviced? I don't know, I didn't ask. They also said that the enduro muffler uses a system of baffles inside the muffler to dampen sound , while the motocross model doesn't. Also, I was informed that both systems are about the same sound output using FIM standard. With that being said, the receptionist directed me to the motocross muffler.

If anyone can clear up anything on the differences between the motocross and enduro can that isn't stated here please do so.

  • HwyChile

Posted November 01, 2009 - 10:56 AM

#32

I'm not sure what you mean. Leo-Vince told me that they offer a motocross system for the yz450f, and an enduro system for the wr450f( which would fit my bike). Leo-Vince said there are differences between the two mufflers. The motocross system is serviceable and re-packable, while the enduro is non-serviceable. I am not sure if this just means that the enduro muffler comes with rivets that have to be drilled out so the muffler can be serviced? I don't know, I didn't ask. They also said that the enduro muffler uses a system of baffles inside the muffler to dampen sound , while the motocross model doesn't. Also, I was informed that both systems are about the same sound output using FIM standard. With that being said, the receptionist directed me to the motocross muffler.

If anyone can clear up anything on the differences between the motocross and enduro can that isn't stated here please do so.


LOL. I have been down this road too. You will get a lot of very bad information if you contact Leo Vince with regard to any real specific questions about their products (The same is true when you contact any company as a general rule.). The person you speak to does not really know their products, regardless of their title. How do I know? I could show you all my emails, etc. They cannot even read their own blueprints. What do you expect though from someone paid to answer a phone or email?

Their own website says the X3 enduro muffler can be repacked. In fact, it has the same language as the X3 motocross model about the packing, etc. The picture even looks the same, as does the blueprint on their website. I wonder why that is? Could it be that they are the same muffler? Another tip off should be that they told you they have the same loudness even though they told you the enduro has extra baffles. I wonder why? Strange that the extra baffles did not reduce the sound level.

The X3 stainless steel headers are different where they meet with the muffler (different diameter and the enduro uses a gasket where the motocross does not, as clearly shown in their blueprints). Therefore, if you buy the complete system X3 stainless steel system, the X3 motocross and X3 enduro differ with regard to the header only. Again, the muffler is the same.

I could go into a lot more detail on how I know all of this, but I will leave it to you to find out for yourself if you do not believe me.

I like the product so far, but I would not trust anyone I spoke to about their products. Note that the titanium system may be different (I did not inspect it).:smirk:

  • HwyChile

Posted November 01, 2009 - 11:02 AM

#33

By the way, if you have a YZ, just buy the X3 motocross system (or just the muffler) and be done with it. The reason it made a difference in my situation is because I own a WR and I wanted a YZ system on my bike. The header is the only difference between the stainless X3 motocross and enduro systems.

  • Jim813

Posted November 02, 2009 - 06:18 AM

#34

LOL. I have been down this road too. You will get a lot of very bad information if you contact Leo Vince with regard to any real specific questions about their products (The same is true when you contact any company as a general rule.). The person you speak to does not really know their products, regardless of their title. How do I know? I could show you all my emails, etc. They cannot even read their own blueprints. What do you expect though from someone paid to answer a phone or email?

Their own website says the X3 enduro muffler can be repacked. In fact, it has the same language as the X3 motocross model about the packing, etc. The picture even looks the same, as does the blueprint on their website. I wonder why that is? Could it be that they are the same muffler? Another tip off should be that they told you they have the same loudness even though they told you the enduro has extra baffles. I wonder why? Strange that the extra baffles did not reduce the sound level.

The X3 stainless steel headers are different where they meet with the muffler (different diameter and the enduro uses a gasket where the motocross does not, as clearly shown in their blueprints). Therefore, if you buy the complete system X3 stainless steel system, the X3 motocross and X3 enduro differ with regard to the header only. Again, the muffler is the same.

I could go into a lot more detail on how I know all of this, but I will leave it to you to find out for yourself if you do not believe me.

I like the product so far, but I would not trust anyone I spoke to about their products. Note that the titanium system may be different (I did not inspect it).:smirk:


I started to realize that after the second call the answers I was looking for wouldn't be answered.

Thanks for all the info:thumbsup:

  • HwyChile

Posted November 02, 2009 - 10:00 AM

#35

You are welcome. You must have talked to the same person I did. LOL

  • Wiz636

Posted November 02, 2009 - 10:32 AM

#36

I just installed an FMF Q4 slip-on on my '08 with my stock header and tested at 93 db. The test was conducted by USFS employees.

I did NOT notice a decrease in the bottom end power over my full Dubach system that it replaced, as a matter of fact I thought it pulled very well off the bottom. That being said, I was running the quiet insert and sparky in the Dubach system. Feshly packed my Dubach system (with quiet insert/sparky) would test at 96 db.

I did notice a difference in the top end power and over-rev though.

I have a mega-bomb header on back order and am looking forward to seeing how it changes the power and sound level.

  • Jim813

Posted November 02, 2009 - 07:32 PM

#37

I just installed an FMF Q4 slip-on on my '08 with my stock header and tested at 93 db. The test was conducted by USFS employees.


That is good to know. If I don't feel comfortable choosing a different system at least I know the Q4 is almost a guaranteed pass on a sound test, and that is on of the most important things I am looking for, along with durability.


I did NOT notice a decrease in the bottom end power over my full Dubach system that it replaced, as a matter of fact I thought it pulled very well off the bottom.

I did notice a difference in the top end power and over-rev though.

I have a mega-bomb header on back order and am looking forward to seeing how it changes the power and sound level.


I am not too worried about the power, since I am no where near using the engine's power to it's full potential. Although it's nice to know the bottom end isn't harmed. Do you have any idea how the Q4 performs compared to the stock system? Maybe if you still have the stock mechanical muffler featured on the 08/09 bikes you could do a bit of a comparison between the Stock system, Q4 slip-on, Dr.D system, and the megabomb header, with the Q4 and the stock muffler, when you receive it?:ride::smirk:

By the way, why did you replace the Dr.d exhaust?

That being said, I was running the quiet insert and sparky in the Dubach system. Feshly packed my Dubach system (with quiet insert/sparky) would test at 96 db.


This is what I would be worried about if I were to run any muffler with a quiet insert. I would like the muffler I choose to be at least 1-2dbs under the DB limit.

Thanks for the info:thumbsup:

  • Wiz636

Posted November 02, 2009 - 08:51 PM

#38

Do you have any idea how the Q4 performs compared to the stock system? Maybe if you still have the stock mechanical muffler featured on the 08/09 bikes you could do a bit of a comparison between the Stock system, Q4 slip-on, Dr.D system, and the megabomb header, with the Q4 and the stock muffler, when you receive it?:ride::smirk:


Jeez...would you like fries with that order? :lol:

I never rode the bike with the stock silencer but I hear they suck and do not plan on ever using it since I need a sparky to ride offroad. When I add the mega-bomb header I will report back. see below regarding the DRD system.

By the way, why did you replace the Dr.d exhaust?


It was getting rather damaged from a year's worth of offroad racing/crashing.

The DRD was a great system with excellent power characteristics all through the RPM range. Build quality was top notch. However, even freshly packed and with the quiet insert it is simply too loud for me (I was hitting 99db with the quiet insert and less than 40 hours on the packing). We are having all sorts of land use battles up here also so I made the decision to use quietness as a major factor for my next exhaust purchase.

  • Jim813

Posted November 03, 2009 - 06:23 AM

#39

Jeez...would you like fries with that order? :ride:



Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a backseat driver; maybe I'm just too cheap to try them myself...:smirk:

Thanks for all the info.

  • Aka.Goose

Posted November 03, 2009 - 02:27 PM

#40

Jim, go get the Q4 already! You know that's what you're going to end up with since quietness is your main concern...It's not going to take away power from stock...Also, not all rangers are clueless about the bikes that are riding in their scope areas, and many will readily be aware of the FMF Q4 pipe as it is the most quiet sparky pipe available...And I haven't been riding much in rocky terrain, but have beat the hell out of it in the dirt and sand, plenty of bike tumbles and cartwheels and the Q4 ti and Megabomb ti are holding up just fine...(Yes, I'm knocking on wood right now!)...





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