Yeah could of been im not denying the fact that operator error could have occured. But from what they say they hadnt taken to sharp of a turn, but who knows?
Rhino Rollover
Started by
little-big_ridER21
, Apr 19 2008 12:41 PM
53 replies to this topic
Posted 04 January 2009 - 12:40 PM
I've used/borrowed a Rhino from a friend for the past 2+ years. I finally bought it from him over the summer as he found a deal on a newer one. He's beat it to crap and back and I've helped make repairs and beef it up. We've added 1 1/2" wheel spacers adding over 3" to the width and only mildly larger tires install (also adding to the width as height).
This past week we were up at an ORV park with alot of gravel roads. We had been flying along gravel roads at 30-40mph pretty regularly. Well New Years Eve I was piloting with my GF in the passenger seat right at dusk heading into the sun with a little bit of dust glare on the windshield. I've ridden these roads enough to know most of the hazards, but didn't see a 10-12" rock jutting out of the side of the road before the shoulder. Two seconds too late we noticed it as I was making a slight right hand turn with the embankment to the right and a severe drop off to the left (these are two lane private gravel roads). It sent us airborn immediately hooking to the right into the embankment. The front left wheel dropped off into the drainage ditch and proceeded to snap off at the spindle as it was now in a roll. The front left bumper folded in completely and at this point the rear end was swinging around and the roll bar made impact on the drivers side with the embankment. It caved almost completely in to the point my head made hard contact with it inspite of me being strapped in and Corbeau seats installed. At this point the rhino was upside down facing the opposite way as it was now flipping back upright only to land on the front nose and almost flipped over on the roof.
You would think the collapsed factory roll bar would be the worst issue, but it wasn't. There is no "roll" shut-off device what so ever as the rhino was still running and I was knocked unconscious with the rhino pointing over a cliff with 1-200 yard drop off lightly wooded. Guess what happened next???? I start to come through and somehow stomped on the gas. Fortunately I had a few mechanically inclined buddies with me and the rhino was limping severely which gave them enough time to turn the key as my one front tire made it over the edge. About 20 seconds later I came through totally fortunately and had the biggest hematoma I've ever seen on someone walking.
Long story short. Stock Rhino's can easily do 40mph or more, however they only have a roll bar adequate for 5mph subtle roll overs on the trail. While the driver might be very comfortable with the limitations, there's always going to be that "surprise" somewhere when you least expect it. WEAR A HELMET in these things. I ride bikes every day every where and always with a helmet even if up and down the alley for a quick power test. The stock roll cage was a complete disappointment and will be beefed up for future ORV runs.
While I wouldn't call Rhinos overly unstable, I would say they do provide a false sense of security and this is the real problem. Even with a helmet the stock cage can crumple and cause a broken neck or broken limbs if you're one to try and stop the rolling (not a smart move). While 80% of my useage is doing agricultural type duties, I like rock crawling and playing with it too. I am strongly weighing the extra expense of a real roll cage that might survive a roll over or two.
This past week we were up at an ORV park with alot of gravel roads. We had been flying along gravel roads at 30-40mph pretty regularly. Well New Years Eve I was piloting with my GF in the passenger seat right at dusk heading into the sun with a little bit of dust glare on the windshield. I've ridden these roads enough to know most of the hazards, but didn't see a 10-12" rock jutting out of the side of the road before the shoulder. Two seconds too late we noticed it as I was making a slight right hand turn with the embankment to the right and a severe drop off to the left (these are two lane private gravel roads). It sent us airborn immediately hooking to the right into the embankment. The front left wheel dropped off into the drainage ditch and proceeded to snap off at the spindle as it was now in a roll. The front left bumper folded in completely and at this point the rear end was swinging around and the roll bar made impact on the drivers side with the embankment. It caved almost completely in to the point my head made hard contact with it inspite of me being strapped in and Corbeau seats installed. At this point the rhino was upside down facing the opposite way as it was now flipping back upright only to land on the front nose and almost flipped over on the roof.
You would think the collapsed factory roll bar would be the worst issue, but it wasn't. There is no "roll" shut-off device what so ever as the rhino was still running and I was knocked unconscious with the rhino pointing over a cliff with 1-200 yard drop off lightly wooded. Guess what happened next???? I start to come through and somehow stomped on the gas. Fortunately I had a few mechanically inclined buddies with me and the rhino was limping severely which gave them enough time to turn the key as my one front tire made it over the edge. About 20 seconds later I came through totally fortunately and had the biggest hematoma I've ever seen on someone walking.
Long story short. Stock Rhino's can easily do 40mph or more, however they only have a roll bar adequate for 5mph subtle roll overs on the trail. While the driver might be very comfortable with the limitations, there's always going to be that "surprise" somewhere when you least expect it. WEAR A HELMET in these things. I ride bikes every day every where and always with a helmet even if up and down the alley for a quick power test. The stock roll cage was a complete disappointment and will be beefed up for future ORV runs.
While I wouldn't call Rhinos overly unstable, I would say they do provide a false sense of security and this is the real problem. Even with a helmet the stock cage can crumple and cause a broken neck or broken limbs if you're one to try and stop the rolling (not a smart move). While 80% of my useage is doing agricultural type duties, I like rock crawling and playing with it too. I am strongly weighing the extra expense of a real roll cage that might survive a roll over or two.
Posted 09 January 2009 - 09:11 AM
Hopefully there will be a few ATV riders on the jury. Leaning has a lot to do with the resulting rollover in the video you posted. ATV's, snowmobile's or rhino's, these machines all require leaning in a hard or fast turn. I have rolled a snowmobile before, fortunately snow is softer than dirt.
And as for the guy sticking his leg out - that was probably instinct but hindsight it was a dumb idea.
And as for the guy sticking his leg out - that was probably instinct but hindsight it was a dumb idea.
Posted 10 January 2009 - 01:00 PM
The following are excerpts of SWORN testimony from KEY Yamaha people.
The reasons there are ONLY excerpts is this is all right now I can make known to the public (talk boards, media, CPSC etc etc)
Click the links, read the actual docs for yourself
Mr Ike Miyachi was in charge of development and quality assurance of the Rhino. There was nobody above him except the President Mr. Kato, and Mr Miyachi were the two principal engineers of the Rhino.
1) According to these documents the two principal engineers, My Miyachi and Mr. Kato stated they knew that the Rhino could tip over and could cause serious injuries. http://web.me.com/ya...es/#2 PROOF.pdf
2) According to these documents the idea of a safety door or net WAS considered during the design stage . http://web.me.com/ya...es/#3 PROOF.pdf
3) According to these documents Yamaha NEVER conducted a test to determine if the Rhino would tip over at mid speed turns on flat ground. http://web.me.com/ya...e__files/#4.pdf
4) According to these documents Yamaha did no testing to determine if the vehicle did turn over what type of injuries or severity would result. http://web.me.com/ya...es/#5 PROOF.pdf
5) Although dynamic tests and computer modeling were commonly used in the development of new vehicles, (According to these documents) Yamaha used neither in the development of the Rhino. http://web.me.com/ya...es/#6 PROOF.pdf
6) According to these documents Mr Suzuki was asked if any tests were done to determine if there was any force on the outboard leg of a driver or passenger which would be sufficient to cause their leg to come out involuntarily if there was a rollover. He said NO TEST WAS DONE http://web.me.com/ya...es/#7 PROOF.pdf
7) According to these documents Mr Miyachi gave sworn testimony that Yamaha did NO testing to see what could happen to the human body if there was a tip over. http://web.me.com/ya...es/#8 PROOF.pdf
8) According to these documents Yamaha never used doors during testing http://web.me.com/ya...es/#9 PROOF.pdf
9) According to these documents Yamaha never consulted bioengineers, biomechanical engineers, orthopedic surgeons or other experts to discuss possible leg injuries in a rollover. http://web.me.com/ya...s/#10 PROOF.pdf
10) According to these documents there were no tests to measure centrifugal force exerted on an occupant during a tip-over. The centrifugal force could result in the leg or body being thrown out in a tip-over. http://web.me.com/ya...s/#11 PROOF.pdf
11) According to these documents Mr Kato was asked why there is only one mention of a tip over in the testing reports when in actuality there were 20 known tip-overs. He answered there was no damage to the vehicle so no report was made. http://web.me.com/ya...#12 A PROOF.pdf
12) Mr. Kato also gave sworn testimony that Yamaha did NOT use instrumented dummies to determine what forces would be exerted on the human body, nor did they use real humans http://web.me.com/ya.../#12b PROOF.pdf
13) Here is a Yamaha photograph from 2001 showing their notes about making changes to help secure the foot. This is a prototype vehicle, a prototype evolves into the finished product. http://web.me.com/ya...s/#13 PROOF.pdf
14) Here are notes from a 2002 meeting where Casey Yoshida wants update on instability of the vehicle for further liability cases:
http://web.me.com/ya...4 mtg notes.pdf
15) Here is a 20 page report from a 3rd party engineer and his opinions of the stability of the Rhino, and the effectiveness of the seatbelt.
http://web.me.com/ya...eson Report.pdf
Speaking of seat belts........I have noticed MANY comments on MANY talk boards
saying the stock seat belts are bad.
16) Here is a report from a Humans Factors expert explaining why just putting warning labels on something dangerous is generally ineffective. http://web.me.com/ya... PhD report.pdf
17) Sanctions AGAINST Yamaha. This is VERY interesting to anyone. BACKGROUND: When a person (or company) is sued they are required by law to surrender almost any document asked for. Then after that there are “depositions” (basically interviews by the opposing lawyer), he gets to interview the person. This is sworn testimony, after that is complete the person being interviewed has 30 days to review his statements for accuracy and change IF needed. Then he signs that he is swearing that it is all accurate. This one lawyer (Klein) who has handled MANY cases against Yamaha has repeatedly asked Yamaha executives if every document has been turned over, every time they say yes. Even the lawyer defending Yamaha confirms that. This questioning has happened many times over the period of 2005 - 2007. Then in late October 2008 suddenly over 4000 pages of NEW documents from Yamaha appear. The lawyer handling this case asked the judge for sanctions (punishment) against Yamaha for withholding such a vast amount of information. The lawyer sites a different case where a company did similar as was fined about $9 million. The interesting thing about this is approx. 12 days AFTER this was exposed Yamaha settled the case. I just wonder why the suddenly speedy settlement? Here is ALL the court documents on this: http://web.me.com/ya...s/Sanctions.pdf
The reasons there are ONLY excerpts is this is all right now I can make known to the public (talk boards, media, CPSC etc etc)
Click the links, read the actual docs for yourself
Mr Ike Miyachi was in charge of development and quality assurance of the Rhino. There was nobody above him except the President Mr. Kato, and Mr Miyachi were the two principal engineers of the Rhino.
1) According to these documents the two principal engineers, My Miyachi and Mr. Kato stated they knew that the Rhino could tip over and could cause serious injuries. http://web.me.com/ya...es/#2 PROOF.pdf
2) According to these documents the idea of a safety door or net WAS considered during the design stage . http://web.me.com/ya...es/#3 PROOF.pdf
3) According to these documents Yamaha NEVER conducted a test to determine if the Rhino would tip over at mid speed turns on flat ground. http://web.me.com/ya...e__files/#4.pdf
4) According to these documents Yamaha did no testing to determine if the vehicle did turn over what type of injuries or severity would result. http://web.me.com/ya...es/#5 PROOF.pdf
5) Although dynamic tests and computer modeling were commonly used in the development of new vehicles, (According to these documents) Yamaha used neither in the development of the Rhino. http://web.me.com/ya...es/#6 PROOF.pdf
6) According to these documents Mr Suzuki was asked if any tests were done to determine if there was any force on the outboard leg of a driver or passenger which would be sufficient to cause their leg to come out involuntarily if there was a rollover. He said NO TEST WAS DONE http://web.me.com/ya...es/#7 PROOF.pdf
7) According to these documents Mr Miyachi gave sworn testimony that Yamaha did NO testing to see what could happen to the human body if there was a tip over. http://web.me.com/ya...es/#8 PROOF.pdf
8) According to these documents Yamaha never used doors during testing http://web.me.com/ya...es/#9 PROOF.pdf
9) According to these documents Yamaha never consulted bioengineers, biomechanical engineers, orthopedic surgeons or other experts to discuss possible leg injuries in a rollover. http://web.me.com/ya...s/#10 PROOF.pdf
10) According to these documents there were no tests to measure centrifugal force exerted on an occupant during a tip-over. The centrifugal force could result in the leg or body being thrown out in a tip-over. http://web.me.com/ya...s/#11 PROOF.pdf
11) According to these documents Mr Kato was asked why there is only one mention of a tip over in the testing reports when in actuality there were 20 known tip-overs. He answered there was no damage to the vehicle so no report was made. http://web.me.com/ya...#12 A PROOF.pdf
12) Mr. Kato also gave sworn testimony that Yamaha did NOT use instrumented dummies to determine what forces would be exerted on the human body, nor did they use real humans http://web.me.com/ya.../#12b PROOF.pdf
13) Here is a Yamaha photograph from 2001 showing their notes about making changes to help secure the foot. This is a prototype vehicle, a prototype evolves into the finished product. http://web.me.com/ya...s/#13 PROOF.pdf
14) Here are notes from a 2002 meeting where Casey Yoshida wants update on instability of the vehicle for further liability cases:
http://web.me.com/ya...4 mtg notes.pdf
15) Here is a 20 page report from a 3rd party engineer and his opinions of the stability of the Rhino, and the effectiveness of the seatbelt.
http://web.me.com/ya...eson Report.pdf
Speaking of seat belts........I have noticed MANY comments on MANY talk boards
saying the stock seat belts are bad.
16) Here is a report from a Humans Factors expert explaining why just putting warning labels on something dangerous is generally ineffective. http://web.me.com/ya... PhD report.pdf
17) Sanctions AGAINST Yamaha. This is VERY interesting to anyone. BACKGROUND: When a person (or company) is sued they are required by law to surrender almost any document asked for. Then after that there are “depositions” (basically interviews by the opposing lawyer), he gets to interview the person. This is sworn testimony, after that is complete the person being interviewed has 30 days to review his statements for accuracy and change IF needed. Then he signs that he is swearing that it is all accurate. This one lawyer (Klein) who has handled MANY cases against Yamaha has repeatedly asked Yamaha executives if every document has been turned over, every time they say yes. Even the lawyer defending Yamaha confirms that. This questioning has happened many times over the period of 2005 - 2007. Then in late October 2008 suddenly over 4000 pages of NEW documents from Yamaha appear. The lawyer handling this case asked the judge for sanctions (punishment) against Yamaha for withholding such a vast amount of information. The lawyer sites a different case where a company did similar as was fined about $9 million. The interesting thing about this is approx. 12 days AFTER this was exposed Yamaha settled the case. I just wonder why the suddenly speedy settlement? Here is ALL the court documents on this: http://web.me.com/ya...s/Sanctions.pdf
Posted 04 February 2009 - 06:33 PM
Wow. Seems almost every Side x Side forum I get on, I see ole johnsand and his "we all need to sue Yamaha" threads...
http://www.rhinoforu...-rollovers.html
http://www.atvnation...showtopic=26876
http://utilityoffroa...?TOPIC_ID=16916
and I'm sure there is more..
I think he is a lawyer and he is phishing
http://www.rhinoforu...-rollovers.html
http://www.atvnation...showtopic=26876
http://utilityoffroa...?TOPIC_ID=16916
and I'm sure there is more..
I think he is a lawyer and he is phishing
Posted 31 March 2009 - 09:00 AM
The Yamaha Rhino has been recalled!
http://cpsc.gov/cpsc...ml09/09172.html
Read all about the flaws of the Rhino: www.yamaha-rhino-information.com
http://cpsc.gov/cpsc...ml09/09172.html
Read all about the flaws of the Rhino: www.yamaha-rhino-information.com
Posted 31 March 2009 - 09:58 AM
johnsand said:
The Yamaha Rhino has been recalled!
http://cpsc.gov/cpsc...ml09/09172.html
Read all about the flaws of the Rhino: www.yamaha-rhino-information.com
http://cpsc.gov/cpsc...ml09/09172.html
Read all about the flaws of the Rhino: www.yamaha-rhino-information.com
I wish you no ill will, but please do not come on here crying when your new dirtbike costs more due to increasing liability insurance costs just because gravity it doing its job.
Posted 31 March 2009 - 02:10 PM
johnsand said:
The Yamaha Rhino has been recalled!
http://cpsc.gov/cpsc...ml09/09172.html
Read all about the flaws of the Rhino: www.yamaha-rhino-information.com
http://cpsc.gov/cpsc...ml09/09172.html
Read all about the flaws of the Rhino: www.yamaha-rhino-information.com
Sorry, not a recall......it's a "voluntary action" taken by Yamaha in cooperation with the CPSC.
BTW....I read the article below with great interest, Mr. Sand. According to this article, the DRIVER of the Rhino that was involved in the death of your daughter was found guilty of vehicular homicide. The DRIVER was found to be at fault - not the machine But what really drew my attention was where it states that the driver was engaging in HORSEPLAY, which caused the Rhino to tip over. Why is this interesting? Because you have been stating on every forum you can post on over the past year that the Rhino just tipped over......for no reason.....and that it must have been a manufacturer's defect. Well, Mr. Sand, the truth will come out eventually......
(quoted from wnewsj.com)
"NEWS JOURNAL STAFF REPORT
A Midland man was sentenced Tuesday in a Warren County court, bringing an end to a case that started when an 10-year-old girl lost her life.
Nils McElroy, 21, who previously pleaded to a misdemeanor charge of vehicular homicide, was sentenced Tuesday to 90 days in jail, ordered to pay a $1,000 fine and serve five years probation, according to court records.
McElroy was indicted Dec. 14 by a Warren County grand jury. He was found responsible for causing the death of Ellie Sand by way of negligence in operating a Yahama Rhino, an off-road vehicle. He was arraigned Jan. 3.
In late October, McElroy was at the home of Rob Osterhues, a friend who lives at 380 Ward Koebel Road in Oregonia. Most of the people at the social gathering, said Warren County Prosecutor Rachel Hutzel, were members of the same church. Part of the fun that day revolved around a Yamaha Rhino owned by Osterhues.
According to Warren County Chief Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Bruce McGary, McElroy drove the Rhino while taking others for rides. McGary said McElroy was engaging in general horseplay, which caused the Rhino to roll over.
Ellie Sand sustained fatal injuries during the rollover and died soon after the accident. She was the daughter of Tammy and John Sand of Lebanon.
The misdemeanor charge of vehicular homicide carries a maximum of six months in jail.
McElroy has a review hearing for costs and fines June 9 in front of Judge Jacqueline Handorf. He is represented by a public defender, attorney William R. Kaufman."
I hope John Sand gets banned from THIS forum the way he has been from almost every other forum out there......
Posted 02 April 2009 - 08:57 AM
No helmet, no seatbelt, no parental supervision and the driver gets jail time.
And how is this Yamaha's fault?
And how is this Yamaha's fault?
Posted 30 October 2009 - 08:16 PM
Just disconnect the rear anti-sway bar links from the "A" arm (two nuts), tie wrap them securely to the anti-sway bar and kick the ride height spring pre-load adjusters all the way down in the rear (unless you like to fly yours). You can totally remove the bar if the minor weight loss is an issue.
The spacers are optional IMHO . . . but I prefer the width as it is. Just don't be stupid on side hill situations or high speed radical turns where there's good traction. In the slow rock crawling stuff realize that these things have IRS suspensions which don't plant the tires like a F&R solid axle rig does (think Jeep).
I intentionally flopped mine in a controlled environment trying to find the "limit". I created an RTI ramp and the thing flopped sooner than my "Radio Flier" little Red wagon would even with the anti-sway bar disconnect, but later than with it connected.
It's an IRS/articulation/leverage thing; on a stock width rig softer springs would go a long way in curing the issue for those who want to crawl rocks and don't care about the ability to toss 600 pounds of crap in the bed or catching BIG air.
Just my $.02 as a Jeepin’ rock crawler and 2008 Rhino owner.
The spacers are optional IMHO . . . but I prefer the width as it is. Just don't be stupid on side hill situations or high speed radical turns where there's good traction. In the slow rock crawling stuff realize that these things have IRS suspensions which don't plant the tires like a F&R solid axle rig does (think Jeep).
I intentionally flopped mine in a controlled environment trying to find the "limit". I created an RTI ramp and the thing flopped sooner than my "Radio Flier" little Red wagon would even with the anti-sway bar disconnect, but later than with it connected.
It's an IRS/articulation/leverage thing; on a stock width rig softer springs would go a long way in curing the issue for those who want to crawl rocks and don't care about the ability to toss 600 pounds of crap in the bed or catching BIG air.
Just my $.02 as a Jeepin’ rock crawler and 2008 Rhino owner.
Posted 03 January 2011 - 06:18 PM
we use ares to flip on purpose all the time. we put on our seatbelts all of our motocross gear and flip it like crazy all the time with nothing going wrong and the doors shut. as long as u follow simple com mon sense you will be fine
Posted 20 March 2011 - 01:11 AM
Demo_Slug said:
once it rolls you can see the dude stick his leg out.
reminds me of when my dad rolled over his leg on my ATC back in 1983.
This video made me laugh hysterically....
1. No Helmet
2. No doors...not needed but sure helps
3. Sticks leg out..rookie..
4. This video proves that most rhino accidents are opperator fault!!!
People can try and sue yamaha all they want but in the end, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the production of the rhino and no one will be succesfull in doing so..if these dealers made these side x sides to be dangerous...WHY THE HEC ARE THEY STILL BEING MANUFACTURED?? Surely someone would have put a stop to this madness by now....right....
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