Posted 15 July 2008 - 02:58 PM
Posted 16 July 2008 - 10:08 AM
Posted 16 July 2008 - 10:24 AM
Posted 16 July 2008 - 10:46 AM
Posted 16 July 2008 - 11:09 AM
Posted 16 July 2008 - 12:27 PM
But could you (or would you) sue IF your WR450 was designed in such a way that (just as an example) the shocks were not the proper ones for that bike and it caused you to fall over. Or (just an off handed example) if it was designed with the wheels and seat aligned slighty differently, and BECAUSE of that design it at times caused you to fall.
It is not just the falling.....my understanding is (and this is what is supposedly in those documents that Yamaha wants kept private) that it was designed with a narrow wheel base to fit into a standard pick up truck to appeal to more buyers, it was also designed high off the ground to get over logs & rocks. Then (my understanding) the engineers said NO.....bad design, it will tip. Yamaha Execs said they want the thing on the market asap. It will be ok. (Now again, from what I have heard that is what is brought out in the depositions of all the Yamaha engineers, marketing people and Yamaha's in house lawyer.) IF (and I stress IF this is all factual then yes Yamaha does bear responsibilty. I have not seen those documents yet, and when I do I too will have to sign the "Protective Order" approved by a judge. That I will not give out any of the info found.
Bottom line is Yamaha is NOT fighting these suits, they settle them and keep them from a full blows trial. WHY? I do not know. There are over 70 of these suits that I could find. Why does Yamaha not fight just ONE in a full blown trial set a precedent? I do not know. Why does Yamaha make sure all of the "discovery" documents are kept secret? The amount of testing? Test results? Discussions of safety between engineers? third party testing (outside of Yamaha) Optional design patterns?
By the way, in my case Yamaha is NOT getting full blame, yes the people who decided to take her for a ride without checking with her parents, and without giving her a helmet do bear a large portion of responsibilty.
I urge any of you to check it out. I supplied many links. A large portion of the court documents are PUBLIC, I will tell you or show you the courts, case number AND parties......look it up for yourself. Call those engineers, question them.....I did. DO NOT ACCECPT MY WORD, check it out. If you reimburse me I will mail you the hundreds of pages of various court records I have found. The information is out there.
Posted 17 July 2008 - 07:23 PM
. You are pretty much saying that if a person falls off of his or her dirtbike, they should sue the company. It is not the company's fault because the rider fell off of his or her dirtbike.(I do see the point in your example as it was the company's fault for the wrong components which should in turn lead to the customer getting a new free bike but the rhino wasn't built ) It was the rider's actions, not the company's. Every Yamaha manual I have read says "Check all components of your dirtbike/ATV for any problems/faults BEFORE EVERY RIDE. If anything is wrong with components, replace/adjust/repair components." That was in my manual. If anything is wrong and you want to be safe, repair or change the components-or bring it back to the dealer for them to fix it-if you don't want to do that, get a new dirtbike/atv that is built properly.
If a person tips over the UTV, it is not the company's fault, you are using the machine, and you must respect it and its limits. It is not Yamaha's fault that people are getting hurt making mistakes on Rhinos. It is the rider's, because the rider is making the decisions for what he/she does while riding. So, if someone sticks out his/her leg trying to keep the Rhino from tipping over(resulting in injury), it is not Yamaha's fault that the person stuck his/her leg out trying to keep the Rhino from tipping over for these were his/her own actions. It is not Yamaha's fault. Yamaha Shouldn't be blamed for something the driver did. They built the machine for a fun workhorse, it is not something that can drift corners like a sports car. It is a machine that should be respected(as I said before).
Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:00 PM
In reading yours posts on this thread, I'm sitting here trying to figure out what your agenda is? It seems you are already interested (if not actively pursuing) a lawsuit against Yamaha, so what exactly is it you are trying to accomplish by posting what you have posted? And from what you have said, I still can't figure out if you are "what if"ing, or if you have bonifide, irrefutable proof in what you are accusing Yamaha of doing?
I'm a Rhino owner, and have owned several since they came out. There are warning stickers all over the Rhinos (as every ATV/UTV OEM must do these days...I'm surprised there is any shred of plastics left uncovered - thanks to all of the lawsuits and sue happy people out there). I do have children....do my kids drive my Rhino? NO. They don't drive my car, why would I let them drive my Rhino? Do they ride in a Rhino with other kids? NO. Do they ride in a Rhino with another adult (besides me) - rarely (I have trust issues), and when they do, they wear FULL FACE HELMETS. They also have their seat belts (or harnesses) buckled and tight every time and I know where they are going and what the terrain is like. Is this because I feel the Rhino is unsafe? No, but I always prepare for the unexpected.
I have never tipped a stock UTV over on it's side - and I have the unique opportunity to drive many different brands of these machines in many different environments. Why haven't I dumped one? Because, as an adult who has been around ATV's and UTV's for a while, I understand and respect their limits - and I take time to learn their limits every time I get into a new machine. And EVERY machine has it's limitations, no matter how well it's built.
I agree with what almost every other poster has said in this thread - there are choices we make daily as parents, choices we make when we ride all of the different machines that we come in contact with on a daily basis, whether it be a quad, a truck, a streetbike, or a tractor. If I do something to cause an accident and I get hurt, it is MY responsibility - no one else's. These Rhinos don't roll over on their own - it's ALWAYS at the hands of the person in the driver's seat.
Posted 31 July 2008 - 03:22 AM
A lesson a wise person told me LONG ago. Whenever a kid asks for something YOU personally ask the parent if it is ok. Do not assume it is ok to allow another persons kid that "it is allowed".
Posted 31 July 2008 - 04:28 AM
Posted 31 July 2008 - 07:00 AM
Posted 31 July 2008 - 07:20 AM
I do believe it is the rider though not the machine, and kxracer is right, my buddys rhino which we always ride in came the same way. After we connected it it was not nearly as tippy as it was before.Have we rolled it before, yes we did once, but you have to know what the vehicles limitations are just like any other vehicle. If you are going somewhere where you think the rhino shouldnt go, DONT TRY IT. Most people believe that if they can do it on their quad why not their rhino. My say is its the riders fault not the vehicles.
Posted 31 July 2008 - 07:21 AM
I got a hunter with a badly broken leg out of some really nasty terrain. If I hadn't had the Rhino he would have had to be helicoptered out.
If you don't respect it it can hurt you plain and simple. I don't think there is any way to make a UTV idiot proof.
When ever a tragedy happens people immediately start looking for someone to sue. They go after who ever has the deepest pockets. I bet the idiot that took your daughter out for a ride without asking and then rolled the thing has very little to take.
johnsand you really got a raw deal and I feel very sorry for you and your little angel. I hope somehow, someway you find peace.
Posted 01 October 2008 - 08:59 PM
Posted 07 October 2008 - 11:26 AM
That makes it sound like the machine just randomly tipped over.
I don't buy it. How fast were they going? How sharply did they turn? How skilled was the operator?
To say they were going on "flat ground" and flipped just makes it sound like the thing would flip over standing still.
Posted 07 October 2008 - 02:49 PM
Posted 07 October 2008 - 03:11 PM
But I have a few questions:
1) look at this you tube vido http://www.youtube.c....eature=related What was this driver doing that was crazy?
2)PRETEND, that Yamaha knew in the maufacturing of the Rhino they could tip over. Just suppose one of their corp executives rolled one and broke his leg. Just suppose the Yamaha engineers cautioned their bosses of the tip over danger. But Yamaha went forward with the Rhino. Would that change your feelings?
Please remember....I am not taking sides I am just wondering and asking the "what if" question.
I do have to admit I have seen some REAL crazy riders on the Rhino on you tube and they have pushed the vehicle WAY beyond its design.
Let's start with the "what if"......if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.
OK, now, onto personal responsibility-why is it somebody or some company's fault for producing a machine that inherently is used in pursuit of dangerous activities?
These aren't lawn mowers or baby strollers, they're 4x4 machines intended to overcome hills, logs, inclines and streams. They operate on rough terrain, which imposes the risk of tipping. They go fast and turn short....thus they could tip.
I think Yamaha's biggest mistake was putting a roll cage and seat belts in-that gave many the assumption that it was a safe machine, just like the family station wagon.
If a person were more exposed while operating it (like a motorcycle rider is), I think they would be a bit more reserved in their driving style
once it rolls you can see the dude stick his leg out.
reminds me of when my dad rolled over his leg on my ATC back in 1983.
Damn, he crushed his beer cooler!
Polaris did the same thing-now, if you bring a Polaris in for service and it doesn't have the web doors on it, the dealer is supposed to refuse to even touch the machine, or let you drop it off.
All Polaris machines are now sold (used or new) with the webbing doors on them.
I've been thinking about purchasing a SXS, but not for sport, and I sure as hell wouldn't buy one of these plastic toys. I want it for use on the farm, so I'm looking at the John Deere Gator myself.
Posted 07 October 2008 - 04:14 PM
That sounds like operator error. Turning too fast plan and simple.