When riding my XR650R, I lose the front end in the corners, I have replaced the stock fork and shock springs with the correct springs for my weight (heavier) I have the sag set at 4.0 inches, the forks have 5 mm showing above the top triple clamp. The damping is set at factory specs. I have a very mildly used stock front tire with 13# of air. It does not want to turn to well anyway and I lose the front end, usually so quickly I am on the ground before I know it. It usually happens in a tight low speed corner. I am sitting on the front of the seat and generally know how to ride. I backed up the damping settings of the fork and it was worse. What can be done here? I am too old to take too much of this abuse. Joe Byrd
I Keep Losing the Front End
Started by Joseph Byrd, Sep 18 2009 07:36 AM
29 replies to this topic
Posted 18 September 2009 - 07:36 AM
When riding my XR650R, I lose the front end in the corners, I have replaced the stock fork and shock springs with the correct springs for my weight (heavier) I have the sag set at 4.0 inches, the forks have 5 mm showing above the top triple clamp. The damping is set at factory specs. I have a very mildly used stock front tire with 13# of air. It does not want to turn to well anyway and I lose the front end, usually so quickly I am on the ground before I know it. It usually happens in a tight low speed corner. I am sitting on the front of the seat and generally know how to ride. I backed up the damping settings of the fork and it was worse. What can be done here? I am too old to take too much of this abuse. Joe Byrd
Posted 18 September 2009 - 07:56 AM
what type of terrain is this happening on? I would think the stock tire is a big factor, not sure what was stock but prolly a dunlop. but im sure theres much better tire selection that a stocker.
Posted 18 September 2009 - 08:15 AM
What about lightly dragging the front break through the turn to slow the rotation of the front wheel? Maybe that'd keep it from washing out?
Posted 18 September 2009 - 10:47 AM
I found the same problem with my XR650R. It tends to not want to set the tire and turn on the soft stuff. I think alot of the problem is the tire, because on pavement it never happens. I have to just hold the front end up and weight the rear tire and twist the wrist. I'm not that good at sliding it but I'm getting better. They call it a Pig for a reason? I thought this might be it? The XR is no CRF but I have good off road tires on my CRF(not fair to compare), until I change out tires I was not going to give it much thought. The front end plowing, is this just what the XR650R does and tires and suspension tweaks can improve it? I just sort of accepted the way it handles. I just figured it is a multipurpose bike and it was not going to be the best at every situation. Any ideas on how to get better at turning it are welcome, from riding styles to mods. Thanks
Posted 18 September 2009 - 11:45 AM
Joseph Byrd said:
When riding my XR650R, I lose the front end in the corners, I have replaced the stock fork and shock springs with the correct springs for my weight (heavier) I have the sag set at 4.0 inches, the forks have 5 mm showing above the top triple clamp. The damping is set at factory specs. I have a very mildly used stock front tire with 13# of air. It does not want to turn to well anyway and I lose the front end, usually so quickly I am on the ground before I know it. It usually happens in a tight low speed corner. I am sitting on the front of the seat and generally know how to ride. I backed up the damping settings of the fork and it was worse. What can be done here? I am too old to take too much of this abuse. Joe Byrd
assuming u have a decent front tire... :smirk:
back off the compression 2 clicks...bump up the rebound 1-2 clicks...set the fork tubes back within 1-2mm(stock) and most importantly (along w/ being up on the seat) start ur turns sooner :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
the last thing u want to do on a +300lbs dirtbike is turn late...90% of my get-offs & crashes are do to turn'n late :busted:
:cheers:
Posted 18 September 2009 - 12:36 PM
As soon as the front tire on mine gets slightly rounded on the knobs it's a major front end pusher.
The only improvment i noted was when i put 3\4" preload spacers on the already stiffer front springs then..dropped the clamps till the forks stick up 13 mm (stiffen the front and drop it)and run a new 401 bridgestone.
Also...run a tall bar on a more forward clamp.Mine is a Applied Racing.
Then ride with your helmet on the front fender.
that's all...
The only improvment i noted was when i put 3\4" preload spacers on the already stiffer front springs then..dropped the clamps till the forks stick up 13 mm (stiffen the front and drop it)and run a new 401 bridgestone.
Also...run a tall bar on a more forward clamp.Mine is a Applied Racing.
Then ride with your helmet on the front fender.
that's all...
Posted 18 September 2009 - 02:13 PM
I appreciate all the input, the terrain I am riding on is generally soft dirt. I have wondered about the damping adjustments, logically the heavier spring should require more rebound damping. And again logically one should be able to slide the forks up in the clamps until the front end gets unstable at speed over rough ground. Do you think the rear damping adjustments would have much effect on the steering? If so, what would you want to do with the different adjustments to keep the back end up and weight the front wheel. Again, thanks for your replies. Joe
Posted 18 September 2009 - 02:35 PM
I ride sand with the pig and the only way to get it to turn is with power.
You are not using enough throttle.
You are not using enough throttle.
Posted 18 September 2009 - 03:06 PM
Joseph Byrd said:
I appreciate all the input, the terrain I am riding on is generally soft dirt. I have wondered about the damping adjustments, logically the heavier spring should require more rebound damping. And again logically one should be able to slide the forks up in the clamps until the front end gets unstable at speed over rough ground. Do you think the rear damping adjustments would have much effect on the steering? If so, what would you want to do with the different adjustments to keep the back end up and weight the front wheel. Again, thanks for your replies. Joe
it's not all about weight on the front wheel. :bonk:
i'm not a fan of raising the tubes...in sum cases it can help the bike turn BUT it will get u all screwed up w/ woops, jumps and highspeed stability offroad...and too much front bias is as bad if not worse than too little.
it's about balance(& tradeoffs) in more ways than one...:smirk:
IF u have the bike sprung correctly ,correct sag setting and clicker adjusted u shud be able to get the bike turn, have straightline stability, and handle jumps/woop WITH the proper riding techniques.
there's sum gud online articles on riding techniques and different drills to practice when riding...they have helped me alot :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
i'd luv to attend this school>>> http://www.shanewatts.com
:cheers:
Posted 18 September 2009 - 03:15 PM
Quote
I ride sand with the pig and the only way to get it to turn is with power.
You are not using enough throttle.
You are not using enough throttle.
What Sanjoh said is the technique I have found to work for me.
Posted 21 September 2009 - 07:10 AM
Saturday we went out riding again and I applied some of the things mentioned to the XR. First I upped the fork rebound damping 2 clicks, a little better, I dropped the forks about another 3mm, a little better. I upped the compression damping on the back shock 2 clicks, a little better. I think losing the slightly worn front tire is the next step. It still is not sure footed.
Saturday Afternoon;
Saturday Afternoon;
Posted 21 September 2009 - 10:10 AM
What tire is on the front and what condition is it in???? all the suspension settings in the world may not make as big a difference as a tire that fits the sand your saying you ride in. Stock tires are usually a intermediate or hard tire, which one is on your bike????
Posted 21 September 2009 - 12:03 PM
Denn10 said:
What tire is on the front and what condition is it in???? all the suspension settings in the world may not make as big a difference as a tire that fits the sand your saying you ride in. Stock tires are usually a intermediate or hard tire, which one is on your bike????
Problem I have with that is one of the places I ride often has lots of deep, soft sand, and rocky trails. :-/
http://www.redriverm...ycletrails.com/
Posted 21 September 2009 - 12:37 PM
The tire is a the stock tire, not very worn but showing a little wear, just a little. We are riding in Iowa farm dirt, it hasn't rained in a while so it is pretty loose, it has been plowed this year and is fairly fluffy.
Posted 21 September 2009 - 03:46 PM
beside wut has been suggested(except rasing the forks! :bonk: )...piggy ain't gunna turn for ya unless u lean her over...
...weighting the outside peg does wonders :thumbsup: along w/ start'n the turn early and i like to throw a leg forward but that's for mostly for "style points" but it's also saved me a few times put'n my foot down :smirk:
:cheers:
...weighting the outside peg does wonders :thumbsup: along w/ start'n the turn early and i like to throw a leg forward but that's for mostly for "style points" but it's also saved me a few times put'n my foot down :smirk:
:cheers:
Posted 21 September 2009 - 05:07 PM
Have you considered putting on a Fork Brace and/or Steering Damper? :ride: :cheers:
Posted 22 September 2009 - 01:22 PM
scalejockey said:
As soon as the front tire on mine gets slightly rounded on the knobs it's a major front end pusher.
The only improvment i noted was when i put 3\4" preload spacers on the already stiffer front springs then..dropped the clamps till the forks stick up 13 mm (stiffen the front and drop it)and run a new 401 bridgestone.
Also...run a tall bar on a more forward clamp.Mine is a Applied Racing.
Then ride with your helmet on the front fender.
that's all...
The only improvment i noted was when i put 3\4" preload spacers on the already stiffer front springs then..dropped the clamps till the forks stick up 13 mm (stiffen the front and drop it)and run a new 401 bridgestone.
Also...run a tall bar on a more forward clamp.Mine is a Applied Racing.
Then ride with your helmet on the front fender.
that's all...
+1 on all this, plus you can also try reducing the sag in the rear 1/2-3/4". This isn't really all about getting weight on the front (but it helps), but reducing rake and trail to get some steering on a bike set up for desert. You may lose a little stability, but with a damper you won't notice. If all else fails, stomp the rear brake and "back it in"! :smirk:
