No oil on dipstick after oil change- 2006's


39 replies to this topic
  • mx369

Posted September 14, 2009 - 08:24 AM

#21

UPDATE; Rode 4 practice session on Sat and 5.5 motos on Sunday. No oil in tank still. Bike still running strong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Lennie

Posted November 17, 2009 - 12:37 AM

#22

Have you solved this problem yet? My bike has exactily the same fault! Can anyone help please?

  • grayracer513

Posted November 17, 2009 - 09:32 AM

#23

Have you solved this problem yet? My bike has exactily the same fault! Can anyone help please?

Have you read through my post and checked those items?

http://www.thumperta...183#post8553183

Also, be certain the crankcase breather(s) are open and unrestricted. Test for the return of oil form the crankcase as mentioned, and for oil pressure.

  • Lennie

Posted November 17, 2009 - 09:53 AM

#24

I have checked everything and it all appears to be working well apart from the dipstick hole has no air / oil / anything coming out when the engine is running in the way you described.

Also I know there must be some oil passing through the tank while the bike is running as the dipstick has oil on it when i remove it after running the engine but none on it when i put it back in to check the oil.

You can also check for oil returning from the crankcases to the tank by loosening the dip stick while the engine is running and lifting it slightly out of place (this makes a mess). Return oil passes from the ignition cover to the tank right at that point, so oil should flow out around the dip stick. If you have the ignition cover off, you can inspect the entire passageway (red in the drawings below).



  • grayracer513

Posted November 17, 2009 - 10:27 AM

#25

Also I know there must be some oil passing through the tank while the bike is running as the dipstick has oil on it when i remove it after running the engine but none on it when i put it back in to check the oil.

And if you add, say 150-200cc, what then?

  • Lennie

Posted November 17, 2009 - 10:44 AM

#26

I added 200cc directly down the dip stick hole to see what happened, the oil did not register on the dip stick before or after running the engine. I have also tried putting 2 litres of oil in the bike so see if it will make it register and it does not.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 17, 2009 - 11:03 AM

#27

How much time/mileage on the bike? Is this a new development, or something ongoing?

  • Lennie

Posted November 17, 2009 - 11:48 AM

#28

Thanks for you help.

The bike is about 1500 miles old and was new in febuary 2007. I bought it three months ago with 140 miles on it.

The bike was fine until last week when i changed the oil now I have this problem. I have changed the oil twice before no problems. It was the third oil change that caused the problem.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 17, 2009 - 12:10 PM

#29

Does the bike have a Ready Racing oil filter cover on it? If so, the filter can be put in backwards.

Other than that, it's difficult to see how an oil change could be mishandled in a way so as to cause this sort of problem. It may help to go over how your oiling system should work. First, there are two oil pumps driven by the same gear and shaft. The return, or scavenging rotor is about twice the width of the feed rotor so that it will pump a higher volume of oil faster. The idea is that this will pick up and return the oil to the tank faster than it drains to the sump, keeping the sump "dry", and the tank full. For this to happen normally, the sump screen must be unobstructed, and the oil passageways illustrated in my earlier post must be open. You can check these with the ignition cover removed all the way into the tank.

The air space in the tank must be vented to the atmosphere or to the crankcase, so that the air can escape the tank as it is displaced by the returning oil. If the tank vents to the crankcase, as the WR/YZF does, then the crankcase vents must be open to the atmosphere to allow the change in air volume to occur freely. If this is a problem, disconnecting the external vent at the tank, plugging the hose, and running the engine with the vent open at the tank will correct it. On finding that to be the case, you'd need to know why it would not vent properly.

If all of the vents check out, and there is no apparent problem with the oil passageways on the return side, I would want to have a look at the oil pump assemblies. They can be accessed from behind the clutch. It is possible that the drive pin on the return rotor may have sheared, leaving the pump turning only by friction, and not at its full potential, or that some other damage has occurred. Also inspect the screen as mentioned in the other post. It seems to me that something is either restricting, or reducing the return pump volume.

  • Lennie

Posted November 17, 2009 - 12:41 PM

#30

I understand exactily what you have written and agree that "something is either restricting, or reducing the return pump volume."

I spoke to the yamaha technical department for nearly a hour on and off today and after a long discussion the only suggestion they have is to check the oil pump. As I am sure you know this is a fair bit so I was hoping for some easier ideas. I think I will check the return side first as its easier.

Is there any tips for removing the clutch on these bikes or is it a fairly standard clutch removal job?

Thanks for the help again, I will report back on what happens.

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  • grayracer513

Posted November 17, 2009 - 04:46 PM

#31

Is there any tips for removing the clutch on these bikes or is it a fairly standard clutch removal job?

Not a particularly complicated thing, but you'll need the whole crankcase cover off to remove the oil pump, and you will need to drain th eoil and coolant as a result.

Reassembly is a little simpler if you pull the water pump cover so you can index the impeller drive tab more easily.

  • Lennie

Posted November 18, 2009 - 12:33 AM

#32

I removed the left side engine cover to check the oil way as shown in post two and there is no problem there. The oil ways are clear, I can blow through the entry hole in the case and it comes out the exit hole where oil should enter the tank no problems. The oil ways in the engine look nice and clean and appear to have no obstructions.

It looks like I will have to get both the right hand cases off and check the oil pump as there is nothing else left to check. :excuseme:

  • grayracer513

Posted November 18, 2009 - 07:47 AM

#33

Can you blow air freely into the tank is the next question.

Also, turn the engine over a time or two and see what the return oil discharge looks like at the crankcase joint from the pump. Run a piece of wire down under the screen to see if you can drag anything off it that might restrict the flow.

  • Lennie

Posted November 18, 2009 - 09:46 AM

#34

I have the oil pump out and it appears to be perect.
The screen is clean.

I cant find a problem.


:excuseme::banghead::bonk::banghead: and :smirk:

  • Lennie

Posted November 19, 2009 - 05:02 AM

#35

Does anyone have any ideas please?

  • grayracer513

Posted November 19, 2009 - 09:56 AM

#36

Not if you've checked everything I've laid out here.

  • Lennie

Posted November 19, 2009 - 10:47 AM

#37

I have checked everything you have said and more! Nobody seems to know how to fix this, not even yamaha!!!!!!!

  • RSAthump

Posted November 20, 2009 - 05:43 AM

#38

i have exactly the same issue, bike has been running fine, i hope.

Ill call my Buddy, he is the local Offroad champs mechanic here he rides a WR450

  • mx369

Posted November 20, 2009 - 08:04 AM

#39

I have over 17 hours on my bike since this first happened. Still doing regular oil changes. Oil does drain out the left side(oil tank drain) when I change it. Still no oil on dipstick. Screen is clean. Put in both oil pumps and the pin was not sheered off. Just keep riding it!

  • rick 0000122

Posted November 28, 2009 - 06:54 PM

#40

I bought an 01 250f a year ago.I went thru similar problems after seizing up the little check valve thingie in the oil line.1000.00 bucks or so later and i cant help but think 250 2 stroke! The only problem is that im 48 and not sure if i could even deal with such a beast...A 125 2 stroke is too peaky.





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