motor filled with sand
Posted September 25, 2002 - 02:47 PM
Posted September 25, 2002 - 03:38 PM
Your running it for more than 30 minutes may have trashed the motor anyway, carefully check the clearances and sizes... the cam lobes may be worn, or the bushes in the gearbox, anywhwere that oil has circulated.
If it all checks out OK, you may want to take the opportunity to add new seals to oil and waterpump, add new rings and have a valve grind (mo pun intended). Not saying you hit the powdercoating place for the new parts (except for the gasket kit), just a chance to do it so your bike is good to go for a long time yet...
It was incompetent of them to sand blast the frame, didn't they write a job ticket before the 'dude' got his hands on the frame and filled it with sand?
Do not take short cuts... this will grind your motor out fast, clean everything, top and bottom, and then do it again... the acetone will not do your seals and gaskets much good, you will have to separate the bits and clean them... this stuff will hide in the lips of seals, the races of bearing and the corners of castings...
Sorry about the amount of work involved, but there is only one way to do it properly...
PS. It would be nice if he did your hubs in a matching colour for free!
[ September 25, 2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: yamaha.dude ]
Posted September 25, 2002 - 03:41 PM
The ONLY way to save your motor, if it hasn't already been damaged, is a COMPLETE strip-down, cleaning and rebuild. Personally, I can't believe it is still running!
That sand infected oil lubes EVERYTHING. It will be in your oil passages, in between your clutch plates, etc. It will travel throughout the engine until it becomes lodged somewhere, whether that be the oil filter or a bearing or a harmless nook or cranny...Each grain is a potential disaster. No one on earth could convince me differently.
Just consider how bad it would be to ride desert (or anywhere) without an air filter. Those tiny sand particles can destroy your engine fast, and they can only enter your intake system and combustion/exhaust chambers...
As for the frame, yikes! I don't know if I would ever feel confident that it had ZERO sand left in it.
Man, do I feel sorry for you! I'm p.o.'ed and it isn't even my bike! I know I am definitely going to just paint my own frame now. I never thought about the potential for a disaster like this at a powdercoat shop! Good Luck!
Posted September 25, 2002 - 07:18 PM
Mark Cantrell did a nice write-up on the YZ forum...
Posted September 25, 2002 - 08:02 PM
Posted September 26, 2002 - 06:39 AM
Posted September 26, 2002 - 08:19 AM
Bear with me for a minute here. You don't even have to take the engine off the bike to get to everything that oil goes through. I think I'm right here.
From the right side cover you can get to the clutch, the oil pump, the oil pipe to the left side, the hollow end (oil supply for lower connecting rod bearing) of the crankshaft, the right main, CB, transmission bearings, the various drive and driven gears, and the hollow (oil supply for gears) transmission shafts and the various oil supplies from the oil filter cavity.
From the left side cover you can get to the left CB and crankshaft bearings and the sump (where the strainer for the oil pump scavenge side pickup is).
You can reasonably flush the crankcase, through any of the available openings or through the cylinder opening. It will run out through the sump opening inside the left side cover and/or the oil pump opening inside the right side cover. You could reasonable flush it with a garden hose, then change the oil after 5 or 10 minutes. Only a few ounces would be left after simple draining, compressed air would reduce that even further. For sand (nonsoluble in anything), the volume, pressure, and velocity are worth more than any chemical.
The only parts you wouldn't hold in your hand are the counterbalancer shaft (nothing there), the crank (you have access to the hollow end and without pressing it apart you wouldn't have access to any more of it), and the transmission shafts/forks (but you do have access to the hollow shafts of the transmission.
You would have to still get the supply and return oil lines and the external oil gallery line to the head.
This might only be a 3 or 4 hour job (head, cylinder, side covers, stator, clutch, and oil pump) instead of 12 or 15 hours (pull engine, everything above, plus split cases).
Unless you pressed the crank apart so you could flush it better (and I'll bet you wouldn't anyway), I don't see the downside. You can still lay bike on left side, fill crankshaft hollow with oil, and blow it out lower connecting rod bearing with compressed air a couple dozen times to flush it. Just do that before flushing crankcase with water or whatever.
I will get some heat here for suggesting water. I'll stand by it with the caveat that you do this in one sitting so oil flushes the water before it sits overnight. At worst, no worse than drowning the bike in clear water. At best, you can flush the he!! out of it, with more volume and more pressure than anything else. Sand doesn't dissolve, you have to move it.
Oh well, I've been thinking about your problem at work and came up with that thought.
Posted September 26, 2002 - 11:15 AM
However, I still think you would want to look at everything, just to be sure, you did run the bike for a fair amount of time with the sand in it, and you cannot know that some finer stuff didn't get past the filter...
if cam lobes are scored, or bearings are scored, it will not be long before they fail. better to invest the extra eight hours now than to do it all again in a week, and then you will need more parts, and will be paying for it yourself.
Approach the powdercoating shop owner, tell him what you plan to have done and make sure he is OK with it. then do it once, do it properly.
If he is honest and fair, he will get more work from people on this board... if he is difficult about it, then it's his business reputation that's on the line...
Posted September 26, 2002 - 12:51 PM
[ September 26, 2002, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: freestyle111 ]
Posted September 26, 2002 - 01:10 PM
I appreciate you are trying to give him a chance and a way to make good. That is the best and most mature way to deal with the problem.
Posted September 26, 2002 - 04:43 PM
Posted September 27, 2002 - 08:56 PM
If this gets to a legal battle cause you hand him a $2500.00 bill for parts and labor and he laughs and tells you to get screwed, you can head straight down to the court house and file small claims.
If you go in there with "he said..she said" the judge will ultimately find in the vendors favor with a comment like "you should have known better than to put the machine back together without a thorough cleaning and flushing first, its your fault..see ya later" but if you go in with a record book in your hands including notes about the day you dropped the thing off and WHO you told NOT to sand blast it and EXACTLY what time it was blah blah blah, you stand a much better chance of winning the case ang getting a motor/bike that is actually better thant it was before this fiasco.
The way I see it you took "work" to a vendor in "good faith" with specific instructions and were NOT told that your specific instructions were ignored (by whomever) when you paid for and picked up your frame.
If you can afford it take the bike directly to a qualified (licensed) mechanic and have them tear the thing down, that way you get a professional invoice with details and damages and it is much more likely to fly in court...which is almost certainly where this will end up.
I say that NOT because I am "sue happy" but based on the words out of this guys mouth after the fact "the stuff is harmless and will be ground into powder" after a few oil changes....
Your engine is hammered, I (a formerly certified A.S.E. master mechanic)absolutely GUARANTEE it.
You ran the engine for even a few minutes and that is enough to totaly flood every nook and cranny inside that engine with sand that WILL never (totaly) come out with flushing of ANY kind. A complete tear down is the only thing that will work.
Plus after you ride the thing the very first time, then he has an "OUT" and can say with reasonable doubt that you caused the damage and not his "accident" and then you own it.
Just my 25 cents.
Posted October 02, 2002 - 07:59 AM